Engineer in trouble

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James Bond
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Re: Engineer in trouble

Postby James Bond » Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:05 am

ITT: "Quantitative" people masturbate to pics of calculators

runningzigzag
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Re: Engineer in trouble

Postby runningzigzag » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:03 pm

I can relate...I read a 250 page book over this past weekend in around 5 or 6 hours.

rinkrat19 wrote:
thegarciab0y wrote:I have a feeling engineering has dramatically inclined my academic skills toward pure analytical and I have almost no reasoning skills despite my completion of the LR bible.


Fellow engineer here. Sorry, I don't think you can blame your LSAT troubles on your major. :?

Are you a fast reader? I found that to be a major advantage. I don't know how much it can be improved in a couple of weeks/months, but I've read voraciously my whole life and can get through a 600-page book in a day and a half (just in my spare time off work). The RC reading selections take me less than 2 minutes each, giving me much more time for actually answering questions. If you're taking 4 minutes to slog through the reading selection, think about how much time that's wasting.

TLS recommends reading dense material like The Economist and Scientific American to improve your speed and absorption of the boring stuff you'll find on the LSAT.

When you review your answers on a PT, don't just look at the ones you get wrong. Also review the ones you got right. You need to be able to explain to yourself why the correct answer is correct and the incorrect ones are incorrect. Confirm to yourself your answer choice on the ones you got right, and convince yourself of the correct answer on the ones you got wrong.

I don't think there's any way to fix "careless mistakes due to juggling too much information in my head" except to, well, not make careless mistakes. If you ignore the time limit, do you reduce the careless mistakes? I'd try taking a PT with unlimited time to see whether it's the material or the time limit affecting you most. Not everyone agrees, but I personally say aim for quality first, and then work on quantity (speed). The only section I personally had time issues on was LG, but first I worked at mastering the LG skills (with no time limit), and as I got more comfortable with the material, my speed gradually increased on its own.

Are you using the spreadsheets available to identify which types of questions give you the most trouble? LSAC also has the ItemWise service on the shop on LSAC.org, which keeps track of what answers you're getting wrong and explains the solutions.

thegarciab0y
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Re: Engineer in trouble

Postby thegarciab0y » Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:50 pm

One more thing for all of those who have chimed in giving me advice, I took another PT yesterday and scored 65 Raw Points / 154 Score. One thing that actually made me much more confident was the fact that I reached question #18 on LR when time was up and I missed only 1 question out of those 18, and then picked up another 2 free-bees on all guesses up to question 26. Also my games score was at only 19/22 which was rare because I always score above 20 and it was just due to careless mistakes (ones I definitely won’t be making again). For some odd reason since the other LR was last I was somewhat tired and the test fatigue set in and I only got 16 correct :/, but I’m extremely confident within the next few weeks I will be able to get those up to 20 correct each section since I am drilling my reasoning everyday reviewing every single question correct and incorrect. Since my goal is a 160 by test day (December), I am aiming for exactly 75 Raw which I have basically broken down to a science LG (20) LR1 (20) LR2 (20) and RC(15). Does anybody think this goal is attainable in 4 weeks since I am testing at a 154 as of right now?? Somebody said reschedule until Feb but I am taking 4 classes next semester and only 2 right now and I feel as though I won’t have a free weekend to spare come January, but maybe double-reschedule until June since my Spring semester ends on April 20th and prep for a hardcore 6 weeks? Or would I lose my skills come then?? I am planning on applying to the Fall 2013 cycle. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

TheTallOne0602
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Re: Engineer in trouble

Postby TheTallOne0602 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:29 am

thegarciab0y wrote:One more thing for all of those who have chimed in giving me advice, I took another PT yesterday and scored 65 Raw Points / 154 Score. One thing that actually made me much more confident was the fact that I reached question #18 on LR when time was up and I missed only 1 question out of those 18, and then picked up another 2 free-bees on all guesses up to question 26. Also my games score was at only 19/22 which was rare because I always score above 20 and it was just due to careless mistakes (ones I definitely won’t be making again). For some odd reason since the other LR was last I was somewhat tired and the test fatigue set in and I only got 16 correct :/, but I’m extremely confident within the next few weeks I will be able to get those up to 20 correct each section since I am drilling my reasoning everyday reviewing every single question correct and incorrect. Since my goal is a 160 by test day (December), I am aiming for exactly 75 Raw which I have basically broken down to a science LG (20) LR1 (20) LR2 (20) and RC(15). Does anybody think this goal is attainable in 4 weeks since I am testing at a 154 as of right now?? Somebody said reschedule until Feb but I am taking 4 classes next semester and only 2 right now and I feel as though I won’t have a free weekend to spare come January, but maybe double-reschedule until June since my Spring semester ends on April 20th and prep for a hardcore 6 weeks? Or would I lose my skills come then?? I am planning on applying to the Fall 2013 cycle. Any advice is greatly appreciated.


Whoa, wait, what?! You aren't applying for another three years? Then what the heck are you trying to rush for?!

thegarciab0y
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Re: Engineer in trouble

Postby thegarciab0y » Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:38 am

Ehhh, good point, I just thought that I would be pro-active and jump on top of it this semester since I am only taking 3 classes and for the next year or so I will be taking 4-5 classes a semester and I won’t exactly be sitting around twiddling my thumbs with extra time laying around. With that said, I figured right now would be the best time to take it since I have a medium-light course load instead of having a heavy course load, makes sense right? I don’t have a problem post-poning it if it really is the smart thing to do, it’s just that after a heavy semester I feel like I won’t be fresh on the material like I am now and the past 3 months of studying for December will be somewhat of a waste, I don’t know. How do some of you really devote 100% of your time to this at any particular time of the year, summers? No jobs? No classes? How?

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JazzOne
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Re: Engineer in trouble

Postby JazzOne » Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:36 am

thegarciab0y wrote:Ehhh, good point, I just thought that I would be pro-active and jump on top of it this semester since I am only taking 3 classes and for the next year or so I will be taking 4-5 classes a semester and I won’t exactly be sitting around twiddling my thumbs with extra time laying around. With that said, I figured right now would be the best time to take it since I have a medium-light course load instead of having a heavy course load, makes sense right? I don’t have a problem post-poning it if it really is the smart thing to do, it’s just that after a heavy semester I feel like I won’t be fresh on the material like I am now and the past 3 months of studying for December will be somewhat of a waste, I don’t know. How do some of you really devote 100% of your time to this at any particular time of the year, summers? No jobs? No classes? How?

I transitioned from a career in teaching, and I had worked in the research sciences before that. My LSAT and application process were not as quick as many others. I went to law school about three years after I decided to do it, and I spent two of those years prepping for the LSAT, researching schools, retaking the LSAT, and applying.

TheTallOne0602
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Re: Engineer in trouble

Postby TheTallOne0602 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:04 pm

thegarciab0y wrote:Ehhh, good point, I just thought that I would be pro-active and jump on top of it this semester since I am only taking 3 classes and for the next year or so I will be taking 4-5 classes a semester and I won’t exactly be sitting around twiddling my thumbs with extra time laying around. With that said, I figured right now would be the best time to take it since I have a medium-light course load instead of having a heavy course load, makes sense right? I don’t have a problem post-poning it if it really is the smart thing to do, it’s just that after a heavy semester I feel like I won’t be fresh on the material like I am now and the past 3 months of studying for December will be somewhat of a waste, I don’t know. How do some of you really devote 100% of your time to this at any particular time of the year, summers? No jobs? No classes? How?


I didn't actually study for the LSAT, so no, I did not devote 100% of my time. But I do read a lot. If you have years left, READ for crying out loud, and then take the test. If you were averaging 175s, I would say, sure, go ahead and take it now, why not? But since you aren't even close to where, in all likelihood, you could be, you should definitely just wait.

thegarciab0y
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Re: Engineer in trouble

Postby thegarciab0y » Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:16 pm

Probably going to post-pone until next June, definitely not taking it in February since all the bad things I have heard about that test. Going to start reading the Economist on spare time to boost my reading, and sprinkle PT’s from now until June. Also going to practice every game on every PT at least twice probably 3 times, I should not be missing any points due to games.

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JazzOne
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Re: Engineer in trouble

Postby JazzOne » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:01 pm

thegarciab0y wrote:Probably going to post-pone until next June, definitely not taking it in February since all the bad things I have heard about that test. Going to start reading the Economist on spare time to boost my reading, and sprinkle PT’s from now until June. Also going to practice every game on every PT at least twice probably 3 times, I should not be missing any points due to games.

I like The Economist. I'd throw in Scientific American to make sure you're up to speed with science vocabulary.

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stratocophic
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Re: Engineer in trouble

Postby stratocophic » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:06 pm

JazzOne wrote:
thegarciab0y wrote:Probably going to post-pone until next June, definitely not taking it in February since all the bad things I have heard about that test. Going to start reading the Economist on spare time to boost my reading, and sprinkle PT’s from now until June. Also going to practice every game on every PT at least twice probably 3 times, I should not be missing any points due to games.

I like The Economist. I'd throw in Scientific American to make sure you're up to speed with science vocabulary.
Engineer in trouble

If scientific vocab's his issue, he has bigger problems than the LSAT :wink:

thegor1987
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Re: Engineer in trouble

Postby thegor1987 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:06 pm

It seems like all your prepping has been self study in nature and it looks like it has not been working. I would suggest a class, I took Kaplan and went from a 140 diagnostic to 160 actual.

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JazzOne
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Re: Engineer in trouble

Postby JazzOne » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:07 pm

stratocophic wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
thegarciab0y wrote:Probably going to post-pone until next June, definitely not taking it in February since all the bad things I have heard about that test. Going to start reading the Economist on spare time to boost my reading, and sprinkle PT’s from now until June. Also going to practice every game on every PT at least twice probably 3 times, I should not be missing any points due to games.

I like The Economist. I'd throw in Scientific American to make sure you're up to speed with science vocabulary.
Engineer in trouble

If scientific vocab's his issue, he has bigger problems than the LSAT :wink:

I don't know much about engineering, but I seriously doubt they read much about cell biology, evolution, globing warming. I'm talking about popular science. There is a particular vocabulary for these fields that is not commonly used in regular circles.

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stratocophic
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Re: Engineer in trouble

Postby stratocophic » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:13 pm

JazzOne wrote:
stratocophic wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
thegarciab0y wrote:Probably going to post-pone until next June, definitely not taking it in February since all the bad things I have heard about that test. Going to start reading the Economist on spare time to boost my reading, and sprinkle PT’s from now until June. Also going to practice every game on every PT at least twice probably 3 times, I should not be missing any points due to games.

I like The Economist. I'd throw in Scientific American to make sure you're up to speed with science vocabulary.
Engineer in trouble

If scientific vocab's his issue, he has bigger problems than the LSAT :wink:

I don't know much about engineering, but I seriously doubt they read much about cell biology, evolution, globing warming. I'm talking about popular science. There is a particular vocabulary for these fields that is not commonly used in regular circles.
It's a property of nerdery, engineers that are worth anything have wider knowledge bases than are encompassed by their fields of study becausethey're we're nerds

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JazzOne
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Re: Engineer in trouble

Postby JazzOne » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:16 pm

OK, fair enough. OP doesn't seem like much of a reader though. I find it helpful to be familiar with the various positions in modern popular science. The LSAT is so predictable, and even the arguments section relies heavy on modern science themes.

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stratocophic
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Re: Engineer in trouble

Postby stratocophic » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:32 pm

JazzOne wrote:OK, fair enough. OP doesn't seem like much of a reader though. I find it helpful to be familiar with the various positions in modern popular science. The LSAT is so predictable, and even the arguments section relies heavy on modern science themes.
TBF, most of the engineers I know are all about the tech journals and mags, so it probably would be a good idea for OP to pick up that habit

09042014
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Re: Engineer in trouble

Postby 09042014 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:48 pm

stratocophic wrote:
JazzOne wrote:OK, fair enough. OP doesn't seem like much of a reader though. I find it helpful to be familiar with the various positions in modern popular science. The LSAT is so predictable, and even the arguments section relies heavy on modern science themes.
TBF, most of the engineers I know are all about the tech journals and mags, so it probably would be a good idea for OP to pick up that habit


No. The level of technical detail in LSAT "Science" passages is so low any engineer should be fine with it. Just being able to read scientific context is more than enough.

In fact I got screwed on my RC on the real thing because I knew too much about "white noise" and read WAY too much into an answer choice and go it wrong.

OP's problem is with reading speed.

thegarciab0y
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Re: Engineer in trouble

Postby thegarciab0y » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:31 am

Yeah the scientific passages and history passages seem to come to me pretty easily, the scientific ones the easiest. The “law” passages are about medium, and the literature/poetry passages….. forget it, seriously. I always opt out of that one. Anything that has to do with a woman poet from the 19th century or anything of the sort has me done in. I would agree my problem is with reading speed also. I actually talked to a guy at Books a Million today and told him my issue. I told him if I read too fast I just feel like I’m not getting anything, but if I read at my normal pace I don’t have a hard time at all. I asked him how to boost my RC skills? He told me I just have to get comfortable with reading a lot, because if a person purposely reads faster than their natural reading speed its not likely they will remember all of what they read, so to just work on reading…..duh. The fact is that my normal pace is too slow for the LSAT. Guess I have a lot of reading to do… a lot… sh*t

DishonestAbe
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Re: Engineer in trouble

Postby DishonestAbe » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:19 pm

A Pep Talk
Stop wasting everyone's time and either shoot for the likes of Syracuse or stick to your element (engineering). Obviously you're not currently top-school material and probably never will be, given that you find it "impossible" to finish a section in the prescribed time frame and evidently don't read efficiently or well. By the way, based on the ranges of misses you provided (8-10 LR and at least 10 RC), you must be getting at least 5 wrong per games section, which belies the notion that you're some analytical-reasoning maven. I will concede that your omission betrays a disregard for disclosure that may be applicable in the legal profession, but that doesn't suggest you'll amount to more than a heap of shit as a lawyer.

Go prove me wrong!

LawStudent_DC
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Re: Engineer in trouble

Postby LawStudent_DC » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:33 pm

Another engineer here:

I havent read thru all of the responses, but I had somewhat of the same problem as you did. My logic games section scores were almost perfect every time, but the amount of reading that you are expected to do, and do efficiently, was something very difficult for me.

The way I went about fixing this problem was to do as much 'boring' reading as I could, specifically journal articles. I would try to find stuff law related, but would settle for something in economics, literature, etc. I would go through, highlight stuff, try to recall the major points after the article, etc. It was great practice for me.

For me, this really helped, I was able to get from a plateau of about 161 to my test-day score of 167. In addition to that, my previous 10 PT's before test day had a 169.6 average, so I still feel I under-performed a little bit.

Anyways, hope that helped.

thegarciab0y
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Re: Engineer in trouble

Postby thegarciab0y » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:52 pm

Thanks for the input bcastel, that did help! I have recently picked up the economist and read something close to 10 articles strait last night pretending I was doing RC section and managed to evaluate each article in the same fashion you do but without all the highlighting. I actually found by reading that little much that I was feeling more comfortable juggling words and different peoples points of view back and forth. That has to be the worst part of my RC, is diffusing what they expect me to infer the author “thinks” or “feels”, getting better though. I am open to any other suggesting for heavy reading material…….

As for dishonest abe, in my original post I intended to write 8-10 wrong per each LR section. I don’t get anything wrong on games sir. All the improvement lies in my LR and RC, and my LR is literally going up each test I take. For example I just hit an all time high for correct answers in a section which was 20 correct, and leading up to that 20 I only got up to #18 when the timer was called and I only missed 1 out of the 18. That leads me to believe that I don’t have a problem with accuracy, just timing, but that will be picked up over time as I grow more comfortable with the test.




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