Is it worth it to take the test again?

User avatar
tiggaplease
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:05 pm

Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby tiggaplease » Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:27 pm

Took it in October, got a 161 (GPA 3.34). It was pretty consistent with my scores in practice, though I did score a few 163-165s, which is what I wanted. So I'm leaning toward just going with what I've got and making the best of it.

I'm not rich, and neither are my parents. I studied on my own. I haven't crammed since October, though I suppose I could...

Is it worth it to take the test again for a possible extra few points?

User avatar
JazzOne
Posts: 2938
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:04 am

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby JazzOne » Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:29 pm

tiggaplease wrote:Took it in October, got a 161 (GPA 3.34). It was pretty consistent with my scores in practice, though I did score a few 163-165s, which is what I wanted. So I'm leaning toward just going with what I've got and making the best of it.

I'm not rich, and neither are my parents. I studied on my own. I haven't crammed since October, though I suppose I could...

Is it worth it to take the test again for a possible extra few points?

With your GPA, I think it's almost mandatory to retake. What are your goals?

User avatar
tiggaplease
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:05 pm

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby tiggaplease » Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:27 pm

Well, I want to get into the best schools I can, being realistic with my stats. I'm applying ED to UC Hastings, and would be pumped if I got in.

I'm honestly not 100% sure on what type of law, maybe constitutional. My interests lie most in politics and government.

Why do you think a retake is almost mandatory?

User avatar
niederbomb
Posts: 962
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:07 pm

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby niederbomb » Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:33 pm

As far as I know, the only non-T14 law schools that continue to place well are in Texas, namely, SMU and the University of Houston since Texas created 50% of the jobs created in the U.S. this year. Anywhere else, you'd better stick with the T14 or at least the T20.

With your GPA and LSAT range, I would recommend applying to these two Texas law schools and seeing what you get. If you finish above median, you'll definitely get a job afterwards.

User avatar
tiggaplease
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:05 pm

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby tiggaplease » Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:48 pm

Texas scares me...

My other forum discussion is how much it mattered that I go to a school located in a region I see myself living in longer term. This basically means West Coast, maybe DC but I dunno. And isn't it somewhat premature to be talking about job placement, with my hypothetical graduation in 2014?

As for the LSAT, I keep thinking about my SAT score, in which I retook it after blowing $450 on some prep class and I ended up with a lower score on my second try than my first. A lot of wasted time and money.

Another consideration is the rolling application process, and how I've been thinking it a good idea to get my apps in as early as possible, basically by the end of the year. Waiting for a Dec LSAT score would push that back a month. Opinions?

User avatar
JazzOne
Posts: 2938
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:04 am

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby JazzOne » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:38 pm

tiggaplease wrote:Well, I want to get into the best schools I can, being realistic with my stats. I'm applying ED to UC Hastings, and would be pumped if I got in.

I'm honestly not 100% sure on what type of law, maybe constitutional. My interests lie most in politics and government.

Why do you think a retake is almost mandatory?

:?

User avatar
tiggaplease
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:05 pm

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby tiggaplease » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:04 pm

Maybe public interest.

I dunno. Why, am I supposed to have the exact type of law I want to study figured out before I go to school? That doesn't seem to realistic.

Why the face

User avatar
plenipotentiary
Posts: 616
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:13 pm

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby plenipotentiary » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:11 pm

tiggaplease wrote:Maybe public interest.

I dunno. Why, am I supposed to have the exact type of law I want to study figured out before I go to school? That doesn't seem to realistic.

Why the face


"Listen, there are like three lawyers in America who argue constitutional issues. They all went to Harvard and graduated in the 1970's. Did you go to Harvard? Do you have a time machine that you can use to go back to the 1970's?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMvARy0l ... r_embedded

User avatar
plenipotentiary
Posts: 616
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:13 pm

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby plenipotentiary » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:11 pm

PS

Retake! Study harder. You can't cram for the LSAT.

User avatar
JazzOne
Posts: 2938
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:04 am

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby JazzOne » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:20 pm

tiggaplease wrote:Maybe public interest.

I dunno. Why, am I supposed to have the exact type of law I want to study figured out before I go to school? That doesn't seem to realistic.

Why the face

Throw in entertainment law as a backup, so you can hit the trifecta!

User avatar
plenipotentiary
Posts: 616
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:13 pm

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby plenipotentiary » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:22 pm

JazzOne wrote:Throw in entertainment law as a backup, so you can hit the trifecta!


You forgot international. And sports. International sports!

User avatar
niederbomb
Posts: 962
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:07 pm

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby niederbomb » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:27 am

Texas scares me...

My other forum discussion is how much it mattered that I go to a school located in a region I see myself living in longer term. This basically means West Coast, maybe DC but I dunno. And isn't it somewhat premature to be talking about job placement, with my hypothetical graduation in 2014?

As for the LSAT, I keep thinking about my SAT score, in which I retook it after blowing $450 on some prep class and I ended up with a lower score on my second try than my first. A lot of wasted time and money.

Another consideration is the rolling application process, and how I've been thinking it a good idea to get my apps in as early as possible, basically by the end of the year. Waiting for a Dec LSAT score would push that back a month. Opinions?


Sometimes you can't be picky. If you want a law job, Texas has plenty of them, and because of the state's business climate, I doubt this will be worse by 2014 while the California economy is faced with long-term structural problems. I would never risk going to school there unless it was at Boalt or Stanford. In fact, you have a better chance of getting Houston BigLaw from UH than you do getting any BigLaw coming from UCLA. Just look at the placement stats.

Also, I've lived in Atlanta, and I'd highly recommend Emory. Atlanta is very progressive and has a nice subway system if that's your thing.

But yeah, I'm a hypocrite because I would never want to go back to Texas either. However, with my GPA, I can always go to a Canadian law school and be quite confident of getting a job afterwards regardless of how I do on the LSAT. With your GPA, I think Texas is a very good option. And Austin and San Antonio are not half bad.

User avatar
JazzOne
Posts: 2938
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:04 am

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby JazzOne » Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:31 pm

The chance of landing biglaw in Austin or San Antonio are fairly remote without ties tithe city. Even with ties it's a pretty tall order. Dallas and Houston are not as tough to break into, but it's really not good advice to tell someone UT is a good option for the secondary markets.

User avatar
niederbomb
Posts: 962
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:07 pm

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby niederbomb » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:02 pm

The chance of landing biglaw in Austin or San Antonio are fairly remote without ties tithe city. Even with ties it's a pretty tall order. Dallas and Houston are not as tough to break into, but it's really not good advice to tell someone UT is a good option for the secondary markets.


I'm from Dallas. And I never said anything about UT. I believe I mentioned UH and SMU, the top schools for placing in Houston and Dallas, respectively.

San Antonio and Austin are nice for living if you pull it off, but as you said, Dallas and Houston have more law jobs.

More so than other states, Texas is welcoming to outsiders moving in. Going to a local school is enough of a tie to get a job in the local market; I know several people who have done this at SMU.

User avatar
lakers3peat
Posts: 493
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:10 pm

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby lakers3peat » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:01 pm

Edit: valuable advice is always taken fore granted by the pretentious assholes of TLS. I have since decided to edit my brilliant and insightful essay with the one liner that summed it all up

haters goin to hate.
Last edited by lakers3peat on Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
JazzOne
Posts: 2938
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:04 am

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby JazzOne » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:04 pm

niederbomb wrote:
The chance of landing biglaw in Austin or San Antonio are fairly remote without ties tithe city. Even with ties it's a pretty tall order. Dallas and Houston are not as tough to break into, but it's really not good advice to tell someone UT is a good option for the secondary markets.


I'm from Dallas. And I never said anything about UT. I believe I mentioned UH and SMU, the top schools for placing in Houston and Dallas, respectively.

San Antonio and Austin are nice for living if you pull it off, but as you said, Dallas and Houston have more law jobs.

More so than other states, Texas is welcoming to outsiders moving in. Going to a local school is enough of a tie to get a job in the local market; I know several people who have done this at SMU.

In light of the clarification, I agree with your points regarding Dallas and Houston. However, you mentioned Austin and San Antonio. I get the impression that OP is not from Texas, and I still maintain that it would be exceedingly difficult to land a biglaw job in either of those cities without ties to the city.
Last edited by JazzOne on Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
tiggaplease
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:05 pm

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby tiggaplease » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:11 pm

lakers3peat wrote:sometimes its who you are as a person and who you know which is exponentially more valuable then some bullshit numbers on a paper somewhere.


Thank you. Not to get all touchy-feely.

Thanks for the advice guys, I do read your posts. I'm not going to Texas. I'm most likely throwing my lot in with California or the Northwest, for better or for worse. I'm also not going to law school for BigLaw. Maybe that's a mistake, but what can I say?

As for the LSAT (the original question), it's something I'll think about, but I think it's time to bite the bullet and go with what I've got. I studied for four months on my own, and 161 was pretty consistent with my scores. A few 158s, and a few 164s. Barring spending $2000 on some Princeton Review class, I'm not convinced that spending more months on studying will help. I'm also not sure I can stomach it.

User avatar
2014
Posts: 5832
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby 2014 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:55 pm

lakers3peat wrote:Your scores, in terms of GPA and LSAT, are FINE! They are above average! Well above average actually. 3.33, is a B+ average, that's pretty good if you ask me! And your 161 is above the 80 percentile, meaning you scored better than 80% of people taking this test.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
This is TOP law schools. With OPs numbers he is paying sticker at a T2 and probably best case scenario ending up making 50k a year out of school to pay off 120-150k in loans.

Retake is the only option.

User avatar
The Gentleman
Posts: 670
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:25 am

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby The Gentleman » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:12 am

lakers3peat wrote:LOL!!! Don't trip out Original Poster; you are getting some pretty terrible advice from the users who have replied to your thread thus far. Your scores, in terms of GPA and LSAT, are FINE! They are above average! Well above average actually. 3.33, is a B+ average, that's pretty good if you ask me! And your 161 is above the 80 percentile, meaning you scored better than 80% of people taking this test. You have a bright future ahead of you, and you are right, you shouldn't know exactly what kind of law you want to practice before going to law school, although doing a little research into what interests you won't hurt or anything...


This is the antithesis of a standard TLS response. I almost wanna call troll...

But I don't see how retaking would be a smart option for the OP. He studied for four months, had a PT average in the low 160s, and scored a 161 on the actual. Sounds like an open and shut case.

User avatar
lakers3peat
Posts: 493
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:10 pm

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby lakers3peat » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:12 am

2014 wrote:
lakers3peat wrote:With OPs numbers he is paying sticker at a T2 and probably best case scenario ending up making 50k a year out of school to pay off 120-150k in loans.



Because the school you go to guarantees your financial future. You're spot on Bill Gates!

The Gentleman wrote:
This is the antithesis of a standard TLS response. I almost wanna call troll...




Nope, no troll here. Lots of pretentious a-holes though; have to set them straight before their ego lifts them to the moon.
Last edited by lakers3peat on Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

TheOcho
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:46 pm

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby TheOcho » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:21 am

lakers3peat wrote:LOL!!! Don't trip out Original Poster; you are getting some pretty [/b]good advice from the users who have replied to your thread thus far. Your scores, in terms of GPA and LSAT, are not very impressive! They are only above average! Well above average actually. 3.33, is a B+ average, that's pretty mediocre if you ask anyone who doesn't want to incur 100k of debt and have a possibility of securing legal employment after law school! And your 161 is above the 80 percentile, meaning you scored better than 80% of people taking this test. You have a debt-laden future ahead of you if you don't listen to the advice on this board, and you should have an idea of what kind of law you have a realistic shot at practicing before going to law school, an doing a little research into what interests you is about the only reasonable thing you can do...


I'll give you some practical advice--you say you aren't "rich." Well, merit-based scholarships can be awarded based on factors like your LSAT, but you scored too low. Not to bring you down or anything, but a 161 and a 3.3 isn't the kind of score that is going to get you a free ride to law school. Don't get me wrong, it will get you into PLENTY of law schools, mediocre ones, and expect to pay. If you want to apply to this cycle, you should be sure you are ready to incur lots of debt and attend a mediocre school. On the other hand, if you are willing to wait until next year to apply, then forget december, focus on february or June, study your ass off, and try to get 6-7 more points on your LSAT and it will put you into a whole new tier of consideration.

I'm like you in terms of score/GPA and I am pretty content with having a lot of debt and finding employment outside of law. I don't want this monkey to hang over my shoulder any longer so I am not going to study for another 5 months or whatever. Sometimes you have to accept where you are in life and really take into consideration what your incentive/willingness is to perform/commit more time & effort into studying.

The people who think that what law school they attend and the grades they get while there are major indicators of their future are spot on. It is actually quite encouraging to see the elitist attitude of some of the above posters, because it allows them to give frank and honest advice so you don't end up homeless and living under a bridge. One of my best friend's dad worked as a legal assistant for a large law firm out here in LA. Because of his commitment to his work, his dedication to his company, and his people's skill's, his firm paid for him to go to law school---at southwestern( certainly not the best school in the country)--after which he graduated and soon rose to the ranks of partner. He's one of the richest people I know and one of the smarter/most successful lawyers I know. Don't think graduating from Harvard is a free pass--sometimes its who you are as a person and who you know which is exponentially more valuable then some bullshit numbers on a paper somewhere. Remember, I added this unrepresentative example to simply guide you away from good advice.

Good luck with your decision.

Remember, haters goin to hate.


FTFY

User avatar
lakers3peat
Posts: 493
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:10 pm

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby lakers3peat » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:25 am

^^ waste of a human being.

User avatar
well-hello-there
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:38 pm

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby well-hello-there » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:49 am

Hey moderators! Can you guys add a "like" button similar to what they have on facebook so that when I totally agree with someone's clever and subtly sarcastic yet spot on revision of someone else's remarks, I can let everyone else know with the click of a button.

Thanks!

oh yeah...didn't Bill Gates go to Harvard?...Or was that MIT?

User avatar
lakers3peat
Posts: 493
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:10 pm

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby lakers3peat » Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:17 am

The Gentleman wrote:But I don't see how retaking would be a smart option for the OP. He studied for four months, had a PT average in the low 160s, and scored a 161 on the actual. Sounds like an open and shut case.



End of thread.

well-hello-there wrote:Hey moderators! Can you guys add a "like" button similar to what they have on facebook so that when I totally agree with someone's clever and subtly sarcastic yet spot on revision of someone else's remarks, I can let everyone else know with the click of a button.


What you find clever is bitterly disappointing.

lakers3peat wrote:oh yeah...didn't Bill Gates go to Harvard?...Or was that MIT?


He dropped out of Harvard. Isn't this common knowledge?

User avatar
well-hello-there
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:38 pm

Re: Is it worth it to take the test again?

Postby well-hello-there » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:21 am

But before he became a billionaire, he had to go to Harvard, thereby guaranteeing his financial future and rendering your own example a contradiction to your advice.




Return to “LSAT Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 34iplaw, cianchetta0, Instrumental, Lexaholik and 7 guests