Getting past the next plataeu

hcaddis
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:19 pm

Getting past the next plataeu

Postby hcaddis » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:40 am

i recently took the october lsat..hit a 168..about 4 pts lower than my practice test average. For february...im trying to hit at least a 175 before i take the test so i can have a buffer and feel confident. I had some questions though:
I am almost out of prep materials..and i am currently reworking through ten more prep tests (purple) by lsac....i am focusing on LR ...should i be doing the questions by type or just going through an LR section and then focusing on my mistakes? Again I already worked through this book doing questions by type.

Also on the OCT lsat...i noticed two questions that seemed different...both were assumption based questions but did not have the tip off for suff vs necessary....

"the conclusion can be properly drawn if which one of the following is assumed" - this one threw me off...because one the questions (#12 LR ) seemed to assump necessary while another ( #24 on 2nd lr ) seemed to be assumption sufficient ..any feedback?

Thanks alot!

flannelman
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:43 am

Re: Getting past the next plataeu

Postby flannelman » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:21 am

I did not take the Oct exam so I cannot speak to those specific questions in particular however I can tell you that the question stem:

"The conclusion can be properly drawn if which one of the following is assumed?"

leads to only a strengthening sufficient assumption answer choice. You can read the, "the conclusion can be properly drawn If" part of the stem to be your indicator for this.
The language indicator If leads to a sufficient condition and in this case your sufficient condition is "which one of the following...". In other words its one of your answer choices. You can look at that statement as a sufficient/necessary conditional one and break it down like you would anything else.

IF which of the following is assumed, then the conclusion can be properly drawn. Now in that statement the first part is sufficient and so is your answer choice. conversely if the statement had said:

The conclusion can be properly drawn only if which of the following is assumed?

Now the answer choice is in the necessary position and as such you are looking for a necessary assumption to strengthen the stimulus NOT a sufficient one.

Hope that helps...

bee's vision
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Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:36 pm

Re: Getting past the next plataeu

Postby bee's vision » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:45 am

I'm in the exact same boat as you (almost), got a 167 in october and aiming for 175 in december. I got #24 wrong too and was confused about the same thing, I don't know if it was that question but I distinctly remember a sufficient assumption question but the credited answer sounded like a typical neccessary assumption answer. I think this is the LSAC's way of trying to subvert the bibles.

A really good example is PT 60, Section 1 # 22. I read "the arguments conclusion is properly drawn if which one of the following is assumed," so automatically I'm looking for the unique element of the conclusion in the AC but the credited response was something like "at least some countries blah blah blah" which I immediately eliminated cause it sounded too much like a neccesary assumption answer. I think the key to these questions is to pay extremely close attention to the force and scope of the conclusion. I missed the "probable" (the question from Oct I think had a "likely" conclusion). My theory is that with a "likely" conclusion and a sufficient assumption question the CAC will NOT be worded as a conditional statement or all A's are B's, etc. because although they seem like they would make a qualified conclusion even stronger they actually make it improperly drawn because it would mean the conclusion should be stated not in probable or relative terms but in absolutes; as a result, the right answer sounds too much like a necessary assumption to be correct when it actually is.

bee's vision
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:36 pm

Re: Getting past the next plataeu

Postby bee's vision » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:56 am

flannelman wrote:
Now the answer choice is in the necessary position and as such you are looking for a necessary assumption to strengthen the stimulus NOT a sufficient one.

Hope that helps...


I've never looked at it that way. Are you saying there's a difference between "the conclusion IS properly drawn if which one of the following is assumed" and "the conclusion CAN BE..."?? I think you're right. The LRB had led me to believe that if there's an "IF" in the stem then its a sufficient assumption...which I think is not always the case. I guess CAN BE is the same as an "assumption required in order for the conclusion to be properly drawn"??

flannelman
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:43 am

Re: Getting past the next plataeu

Postby flannelman » Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:19 am

well not exactly...

If the stem is, "The conclusion CAN BE properly drawn IF which of the following is assumed?" it reads the same as "the conclusion IS properly drawn IF which of the following..." The important part of this stem is in fact the "IF". The only time you might see an IF not acting in this way in an assumption question is if it said something like "which one of the following, IF TRUE, is an assumption on which the argument depends"... That leads to a necessary answer choice because the "if true" isn't setting up a sufficient condition... or another would be.. "which one of the following, If true, provides the strongest support for the argument".. that would be just a regular assumption neither N nor S specific. Finally the same sort of set up: "Which one of the following, If True, Enables the conclusion to be properly drawn?"... Leads to a Sufficient Assumption answer choice. so you can have an if in your stem and have any one of the three its not a cut and dry rule, you need to read what the question is asking for. But if you see conditional language, apply it.

A side note as well... for the original question. Remember that the answer to a sufficient assumption question may well also be a necessary assumption. However that principle does not work the other way around. for your answer choices to any of these it can be S and N for a Necessary assumption Q (and it would need to satisfy both requirements) but cannot be N without S for a Sufficient Q.

hcaddis
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Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:19 pm

Re: Getting past the next plataeu

Postby hcaddis » Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:34 am

^ thats the kicker then...because on pt 61...the #12 assumption question's answer choice was def a assumption necessary type answer choice, but it had an assumption sufficient stem. Anyone experience a similar lack of faith during pt 61?

Also, should i be doing LR and Games by type? I have already done them by type, and I am trying to just increase my attention to detail by redoing my prep materials.

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AverageTutoring
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Re: Getting past the next plataeu

Postby AverageTutoring » Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:12 am

hcaddis wrote:^ thats the kicker then...because on pt 61...the #12 assumption question's answer choice was def a assumption necessary type answer choice, but it had an assumption sufficient stem. Anyone experience a similar lack of faith during pt 61?

Also, should i be doing LR and Games by type? I have already done them by type, and I am trying to just increase my attention to detail by redoing my prep materials.


I'm not sure what Q12 you're talking about. LR1 Q12 was a resolve the Paradox and LR2 Q12 was a "what helps explain the discrepency" so esentially another resolve the paradox.

Also, Q24 was not a sufficient assumption stem either...the problem with 24 was that it drew a conclusion based of a flipping without negating. It said that,

Own Age + Stranger --> Comfortable Approach

But the conclusion was that,

Friendship --> Must be Comfortable in Approaching --> Own Age + Stranger

They did switch the necessary and sufficient conditions around, if that's what you mean? I'm a tad cofused!

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DieAntwoord
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Re: Getting past the next plataeu

Postby DieAntwoord » Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:00 am

hcaddis wrote:i recently took the october lsat..hit a 168..about 4 pts lower than my practice test average. For february...im trying to hit at least a 175 before i take the test so i can have a buffer and feel confident. I had some questions though:
I am almost out of prep materials..and i am currently reworking through ten more prep tests (purple) by lsac....i am focusing on LR ...should i be doing the questions by type or just going through an LR section and then focusing on my mistakes? Again I already worked through this book doing questions by type.

Also on the OCT lsat...i noticed two questions that seemed different...both were assumption based questions but did not have the tip off for suff vs necessary....

"the conclusion can be properly drawn if which one of the following is assumed" - this one threw me off...because one the questions (#12 LR ) seemed to assump necessary while another ( #24 on 2nd lr ) seemed to be assumption sufficient ..any feedback?

Thanks alot!


I dont know about all this #24 stuff, though I took October. But in regards to plateaus, Hardest Questions by cambridge. This way they are mixed, like the test. I think they give you about 400 questions and if you plug 25 questions in as your fifth section when you are taking pts. the real world will all of a sudden seem alot easier.

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luckyme
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Re: Getting past the next plataeu

Postby luckyme » Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:38 pm

DieAntwoord wrote: I dont know about all this #24 stuff, though I took October. But in regards to plateaus, Hardest Questions by cambridge. This way they are mixed, like the test. I think they give you about 400 questions and if you plug 25 questions in as your fifth section when you are taking pts. the real world will all of a sudden seem alot easier.
\

There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level.

hcaddis
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:19 pm

Re: Getting past the next plataeu

Postby hcaddis » Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:56 pm

i just checked again...its # 24 on the owls/brick house lr

and number 13 (not 12, typo i apoligize) on the shakespeare lr

but the stems are the same, yet the answer to to number 13 i felt was an assumption necessary choice...check it again and you'll see what im talking about and hopefully correct me if I am wrong.

thanks

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AverageTutoring
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Re: Getting past the next plataeu

Postby AverageTutoring » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:38 pm

Okay, just checked #24 and you are correct that it is a sufficient assumption. But #13 LR 2 is also a sufficient assumption, not a necessary assumption.

The argument proceeds by telling us that the feelings of an art critic can effect how we REACT to an art work but it concludes that art critics can dictate the ARTISTIC MERIT of the work. This conclusion is unwarrented unless the fact that the critic can change our reaction to the work of art implies that they also determine the work's artistic merit.

The answer choice definately fills this gap and makes the conclusion valid...so it is a sufficient assumption.




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