Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

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ohhenry
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Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

Postby ohhenry » Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:41 pm

I was PTing in the 158-161 range with 155's for PT's 58, 59, 60 (which I feel was due to taking them too close together leading up to Oct. 9th)

Unfortunately, I got a 151. There was a distraction with the proctors whispering during the 1st and 4th sections but I hate to use that as an excuse. This was my 2nd time taking it and I've signed up for December. I'm shooting for 155-158 at this point for December. Higher would be nice although I'm trying to be realistic.

If you were in my shoes (and I know alot of you on here are glad you're not), would you say retaking for the 3rd time is pretty much mandatory at this point? Say I don't get higher than a 155, is a 151-155 range as crucial as higher score ranges in acceptances? I kind of want to send in my apps already and be done with it. My numbers are 3.19, 1/2 Chicano URM non-traditional.

Also, I have recieved fee waivers today from Washington University in St. Louis and Indiana U-Bloomington which were schools I was considering had I gotten a 156-158. Does it mean anything to get fee waivers from them? I know it's common with the shittier schools.

Advice and words of encouragement appreciated. No haters please. Already feel shitty as it is. Thanks!

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gdane
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Re: Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

Postby gdane » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:11 pm

Getting fee waivers doesnt mean much. Usually schools want to seem more selective, so they'll send out fee waivers to solicit peoples applications. Its messed up because it gives people false hope.

Retake. Dont aim for such a low score. I know that maybe you feel like thats all youre capable of, but its not. You can get at least a 160. How were you preparing?

relativity
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Re: Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

Postby relativity » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:16 pm

ohhenry wrote:I was PTing in the 158-161 range with 155's for PT's 58, 59, 60 (which I feel was due to taking them too close together leading up to Oct. 9th)

Unfortunately, I got a 151. There was a distraction with the proctors whispering during the 1st and 4th sections but I hate to use that as an excuse. This was my 2nd time taking it and I've signed up for December. I'm shooting for 155-158 at this point for December. Higher would be nice although I'm trying to be realistic.

If you were in my shoes (and I know alot of you on here are glad you're not), would you say retaking for the 3rd time is pretty much mandatory at this point? Say I don't get higher than a 155, is a 151-155 range as crucial as higher score ranges in acceptances? I kind of want to send in my apps already and be done with it. My numbers are 3.19, 1/2 Chicano URM non-traditional.

Also, I have recieved fee waivers today from Washington University in St. Louis and Indiana U-Bloomington which were schools I was considering had I gotten a 156-158. Does it mean anything to get fee waivers from them? I know it's common with the shittier schools.

Advice and words of encouragement appreciated. No haters please. Already feel shitty as it is. Thanks!


The fact that WashU is an option for that range based on URM status makes me sick to my stomach. As a poor white guy, I couldn't even do the campus tour with that score - even though I went to a shitty public school filled with URMs. But whatever. Life isn't fair, is it?

I think the best advice is to retake in June of next year. Spend a year studying, and maximize the benefits. Then you can apply ED to a T14 school with a top score and URM. Some of the T14s take your highest score if its +7 points above your next. Check it out, and it will likely pay dividends.

As a whole, it's simply too late to take the December test and still be competitive for this year. Try, but it's doubtful.

And even if you do, is it really likely that you'll have enough study time to break your current trend? December is just a month away. To get +10 points (minimum), it seems like you'd want a bit more time...
Last edited by relativity on Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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gdane
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Re: Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

Postby gdane » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:17 pm

relativity wrote:The fact that WashU is an option for that range based on URM status makes me sick to my stomach. As a poor white guy, I couldn't even do the campus tour with that score - even though I went to a shitty public school filled with URMs. But whatever. Life isn't fair, is it?
I think the best advice is to retake in June of next year. Spend a year studying, and maximize the benefits. Then you can apply ED to a T14 school with a top score and URM. Some of the T14s take your highest score if its +7 points above your next. Check it out, and it will likely pay dividends.

As a whole, it's simply too late to take the December test and still be competitive for this year. Try, but it's doubtful.


This is absolutely unneccessary. Like I said, a fee waiver means nothing. Read through the Fee Waiver thread and youll see that tons of white people with subpar LSAT scores have gotten fee waivers for places like Duke and Cornell.

relativity
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Re: Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

Postby relativity » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:19 pm

gdane5 wrote:
relativity wrote:The fact that WashU is an option for that range based on URM status makes me sick to my stomach. As a poor white guy, I couldn't even do the campus tour with that score - even though I went to a shitty public school filled with URMs. But whatever. Life isn't fair, is it?
I think the best advice is to retake in June of next year. Spend a year studying, and maximize the benefits. Then you can apply ED to a T14 school with a top score and URM. Some of the T14s take your highest score if its +7 points above your next. Check it out, and it will likely pay dividends.

As a whole, it's simply too late to take the December test and still be competitive for this year. Try, but it's doubtful.


This is absolutely unneccessary. Like I said, a fee waiver means nothing. Read through the Fee Waiver thread and youll see that tons of white people with subpar LSAT scores have gotten fee waivers for places like Duke and Cornell.


So, so verrrrry true.
Last edited by relativity on Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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KevinP
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Re: Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

Postby KevinP » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:20 pm

Edit: Decided going down URM path never goes well on TLS forums.

relativity
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Re: Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

Postby relativity » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:28 pm

KevinP wrote:Edit: Decided going down URM path never goes well on TLS forums.


True, although nothing is a sacred cow.

We are seeking to be lawyers, afterall.

I stand by my resentment at being held to a higher standard despite having the same or lower economic background as many URMs. My resentment changes nothing, but I'm nevertheless still allowed to be resentful.

I just need to score 175+ to compete with URMs bringing 165s.

My advice beyond that point (in my answer above) still stands. The OP would be smart to take it if she/he really wants to make a real advance in his/her score.

cowgirl_bebop
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Re: Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

Postby cowgirl_bebop » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:44 pm

relativity wrote:
KevinP wrote:Edit: Decided going down URM path never goes well on TLS forums.


True, although nothing is a sacred cow.

We are seeking to be lawyers, afterall.

I stand by my resentment at being held to a higher standard despite having the same or lower economic background as many URMs. My resentment changes nothing, but I'm nevertheless still allowed to be resentful.

I just need to score 175+ to compete with URMs bringing 165s.

My advice beyond that point (in my answer above) still stands. The OP would be smart to take it if she/he really wants to make a real advance in his/her score.


Insert eyeroll here...

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ohhenry
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Re: Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

Postby ohhenry » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:07 pm

I hear you guys on the URM thing and it is what it is.

To answer gdane5:
As far as study methods go this time around, I'm redoing PT's 50-61, redoing LR homework from the Blueprint books and doing LG sections from PT's 49 and below.

I've thought about a tutor but I don't quite know how that could help other than explaining incorrect answers.

To relativity:
I'm applying this cycle. I don't mind playing my cards this cycle pending I score 155+ or not.

relativity
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Re: Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

Postby relativity » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:24 pm

ohhenry wrote:I hear you guys on the URM thing and it is what it is.

To answer gdane5:
As far as study methods go this time around, I'm redoing PT's 50-61, redoing LR homework from the Blueprint books and doing LG sections from PT's 49 and below.

I've thought about a tutor but I don't quite know how that could help other than explaining incorrect answers.

To relativity:
I'm applying this cycle. I don't mind playing my cards this cycle pending I score 155+ or not.


Good luck.

gambelda
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Re: Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

Postby gambelda » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:31 pm

offtopic...buuuuuuut, don't URM's find the bump to be extremely racist? I would be PISSED if someone said we're taking you at a lower score than another person simply because we have less of you.....to me that's the equivalent of the law school saying we think you can't compete with other white people without this bump.

I personally don't care because I STILL have to perform well on the LSAT to get to where I want to go and someone else's bumps have no bearing on my acceptance. I was just thinking the other day that if I was a URM, I'd be livid - probably so much so that I wouldn't acknowledge my status on the application

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beachbum
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Re: Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

Postby beachbum » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:36 pm

gambelda wrote:offtopic...buuuuuuut, don't URM's find the bump to be extremely racist? I would be PISSED if someone said we're taking you at a lower score than another person simply because we have less of you.....to me that's the equivalent of the law school saying we think you can't compete with other white people without this bump.

I personally don't care because I STILL have to perform well on the LSAT to get to where I want to go and someone else's bumps have no bearing on my acceptance. I was just thinking the other day that if I was a URM, I'd be livid - probably so much so that I wouldn't acknowledge my status on the application


I think you'd get over it when you receive those first T14 acceptances.

gambelda
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Re: Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

Postby gambelda » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:46 pm

beachbum wrote:
gambelda wrote:offtopic...buuuuuuut, don't URM's find the bump to be extremely racist? I would be PISSED if someone said we're taking you at a lower score than another person simply because we have less of you.....to me that's the equivalent of the law school saying we think you can't compete with other white people without this bump.

I personally don't care because I STILL have to perform well on the LSAT to get to where I want to go and someone else's bumps have no bearing on my acceptance. I was just thinking the other day that if I was a URM, I'd be livid - probably so much so that I wouldn't acknowledge my status on the application


I think you'd get over it when you receive those first T14 acceptances.


I'm not so sure... Clarence Thomas said the only reason he got into Yale was because he was black and he still has a 10 cent sticker on his diploma because he says that's all it's worth to him. I'd like to think I'd feel the same way, but who knows once it actually happens to you

09042014
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Re: Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:55 pm

Nothing to lose take it again.

relativity
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Re: Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

Postby relativity » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:21 pm

gambelda wrote:
beachbum wrote:
gambelda wrote:offtopic...buuuuuuut, don't URM's find the bump to be extremely racist? I would be PISSED if someone said we're taking you at a lower score than another person simply because we have less of you.....to me that's the equivalent of the law school saying we think you can't compete with other white people without this bump.

I personally don't care because I STILL have to perform well on the LSAT to get to where I want to go and someone else's bumps have no bearing on my acceptance. I was just thinking the other day that if I was a URM, I'd be livid - probably so much so that I wouldn't acknowledge my status on the application


I think you'd get over it when you receive those first T14 acceptances.


I'm not so sure... Clarence Thomas said the only reason he got into Yale was because he was black and he still has a 10 cent sticker on his diploma because he says that's all it's worth to him. I'd like to think I'd feel the same way, but who knows once it actually happens to you


I shifted the discussion toward this angle, but it was a minor point I made in addressing the OP's situation.

I think the nerve touched stems from the reality that someone with URM status and a 151 can feasibly get into a T14 school if he/she makes the effort to up his/her score 10-15 points. Compare that to T14s not even being within sneezing distance for someone without URM status but with the same score.

But, that's all a side show. The OP should retake, and apply next year after doing significant preparation. Maybe he'll get in somewhere low-end with his current score, but it seems like he'd want to wait and do things right. Raise the score. Why take a TTT when you could score a T14?

Agree or disagree with the basis of URM status, it's going to be a major help for him if he can get his score up into the 160's. The OP has a real chance at getting a T14 if he can raise his score by 12 points on the June exam, which is totally doable. And definately wait until June. December fails to provide enough preparation time.

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Barbie
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Re: Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

Postby Barbie » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:31 pm

gambelda wrote:offtopic...buuuuuuut, don't URM's find the bump to be extremely racist? I would be PISSED if someone said we're taking you at a lower score than another person simply because we have less of you.....to me that's the equivalent of the law school saying we think you can't compete with other white people without this bump.

I personally don't care because I STILL have to perform well on the LSAT to get to where I want to go and someone else's bumps have no bearing on my acceptance. I was just thinking the other day that if I was a URM, I'd be livid - probably so much so that I wouldn't acknowledge my status on the application



I have a few friends (applying to LS and med school) who think the bump is kind of racist. One of my friends said "Equality never meant giving me a benefit OVER white people, it meant making us equal." She went on to point out that it could even inspire racism in law/med school, because some people might think that she was let in BECAUSE she is black, and that she isn't as qualified as her classmates. Either way, she checked the AA box and got hooked up. Can't blame her-- I would too!

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KevinP
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Re: Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

Postby KevinP » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:54 pm

relativity wrote:
KevinP wrote:Edit: Decided going down URM path never goes well on TLS forums.


True, although nothing is a sacred cow.

We are seeking to be lawyers, afterall.

I stand by my resentment at being held to a higher standard despite having the same or lower economic background as many URMs. My resentment changes nothing, but I'm nevertheless still allowed to be resentful.

I just need to score 175+ to compete with URMs bringing 165s.

My advice beyond that point (in my answer above) still stands. The OP would be smart to take it if she/he really wants to make a real advance in his/her score.


Trust me bro, I'm in the same boat as you. Poor and disadvantaged but white.

@OP: You should definitely retake a 151. There is always something to lose but at 151... the potential gain far outweighs any potential loss.

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ohhenry
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Re: Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

Postby ohhenry » Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:15 pm

Note to self: Don't bring up URM in a non-URM forum.

To KevinP:
I agree a retake is a must and if I get a 157 or higher, this URM is buying everyone on this thread above a drink (I promise it won't be cheap tequila)!

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KevinP
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Re: Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

Postby KevinP » Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:23 pm

ohhenry wrote:Note to self: Don't bring up URM in a non-URM forum.

To KevinP:
I agree a retake is a must and if I get a 157 or higher, this URM is buying everyone on this thread above a drink (I promise it won't be cheap tequila)!


Haha, it's all good. I'll definitely hold to your word about the drinks ;) But if you need help with a particular question then this forum is absolutely amazing because people here (usually) are eager to help. Also, you can always send me a PM. Best of luck to us on our 3rd retake in December!

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vanwinkle
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Re: Nothing to lose retaking a 151?

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:25 pm

relativity wrote:The fact that WashU is an option for that range based on URM status makes me sick to my stomach. As a poor white guy, I couldn't even do the campus tour with that score - even though I went to a shitty public school filled with URMs. But whatever. Life isn't fair, is it?

Kill the AA debate. You can go to the Lounge if you want to debate the politics or the unfairness of it. It doesn't help the OP to debate AA here. That applies equally to everyone in the thread.




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