Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

kpuc
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:28 pm

Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby kpuc » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:44 pm

I performed a bit below expectations with a 170 on the October LSAT and I was debating whether or not to re-take. Then I checked my test breakdown and realized that I had gotten a -9 on the LR! For over a month, a bad PT would be -5 on the LR for me, and in the last couple of weeks, I had managed to get it down to -2.

On the Oct LSAT, my RC a was -0, and my LG was -3, which was perfectly in line with my PT averages. But a -9 LR seems to be an outlier result, a result that I haven't seen since my earliest PT days.

I was unsure about a re-take, but now, I'm very confident that I can get a better score because my Oct score was the result of a weird nose-dive in LR. That was the section that I was least worried about, and even if I did badly by my PT standards (a -5), I still would've had a -8 for the test and I would've been very happy with that score.

If you were a bit unhappy with your score and you found out it was solely due to a bombing of a section you were least worried about, would you re-take?

User avatar
typ3
Posts: 1362
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:04 am

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby typ3 » Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:01 pm

I would retake merely because you went -3 in the games.

You wasted a good -0 RC though.

Work on going -0 in the games and you can still pick up 2 points or so on your LR average before Dec (1 per section).

That would be a pick up of at least 5 points (+ your outlier section) I would conservatively say you'd pick up 3 points and at on the far end 10 (assuming you had a blow up section)

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby HeavenWood » Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:05 pm

kpuc wrote:I performed a bit below expectations with a 170 on the October LSAT and I was debating whether or not to re-take. Then I checked my test breakdown and realized that I had gotten a -9 on the LR! For over a month, a bad PT would be -5 on the LR for me, and in the last couple of weeks, I had managed to get it down to -2.

On the Oct LSAT, my RC a was -0, and my LG was -3, which was perfectly in line with my PT averages. But a -9 LR seems to be an outlier result, a result that I haven't seen since my earliest PT days.

I was unsure about a re-take, but now, I'm very confident that I can get a better score because my Oct score was the result of a weird nose-dive in LR. That was the section that I was least worried about, and even if I did badly by my PT standards (a -5), I still would've had a -8 for the test and I would've been very happy with that score.

If you were a bit unhappy with your score and you found out it was solely due to a bombing of a section you were least worried about, would you re-take?


If you know you can do better and aren't satisfied with your current score, then definitely retake.

kpuc
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:28 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby kpuc » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:18 am

I also only got 2 hours of sleep before the Oct LSAT, even though I had been on a regular sleep cycle for about 2 weeks. I didn't feel tired at the LSAT, and I was able to maintain my PT performance on RC and LG. Could my lack of sleep rattled my LR skills and only my LR skills though? My LR sections were my first and fourth sections.

User avatar
invisiblesun
Posts: 329
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:01 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby invisiblesun » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:32 am

HeavenWood wrote:
kpuc wrote:I performed a bit below expectations with a 170 on the October LSAT and I was debating whether or not to re-take. Then I checked my test breakdown and realized that I had gotten a -9 on the LR! For over a month, a bad PT would be -5 on the LR for me, and in the last couple of weeks, I had managed to get it down to -2.

On the Oct LSAT, my RC a was -0, and my LG was -3, which was perfectly in line with my PT averages. But a -9 LR seems to be an outlier result, a result that I haven't seen since my earliest PT days.

I was unsure about a re-take, but now, I'm very confident that I can get a better score because my Oct score was the result of a weird nose-dive in LR. That was the section that I was least worried about, and even if I did badly by my PT standards (a -5), I still would've had a -8 for the test and I would've been very happy with that score.

If you were a bit unhappy with your score and you found out it was solely due to a bombing of a section you were least worried about, would you re-take?


If you know you can do better and aren't satisfied with your current score, then definitely retake.


This. It's simply not worth sitting around and wondering "what if I had retaken" if your admissions results end up disappointing you.

User avatar
dcman06
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:08 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby dcman06 » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:56 am

kpuc wrote:I performed a bit below expectations with a 170 on the October LSAT and I was debating whether or not to re-take. Then I checked my test breakdown and realized that I had gotten a -9 on the LR! For over a month, a bad PT would be -5 on the LR for me, and in the last couple of weeks, I had managed to get it down to -2.

On the Oct LSAT, my RC a was -0, and my LG was -3, which was perfectly in line with my PT averages. But a -9 LR seems to be an outlier result, a result that I haven't seen since my earliest PT days.

I was unsure about a re-take, but now, I'm very confident that I can get a better score because my Oct score was the result of a weird nose-dive in LR. That was the section that I was least worried about, and even if I did badly by my PT standards (a -5), I still would've had a -8 for the test and I would've been very happy with that score.

If you were a bit unhappy with your score and you found out it was solely due to a bombing of a section you were least worried about, would you re-take?


You have a 170. Unless your GPA was below a 3.4 and you're still in college (or within a couple years out) and the only school you wanted to go to was Yale or Harvard, I think I'll take the score and run.

sarahlawg
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:59 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby sarahlawg » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:04 am

I got a 171 with an uncharacteristically low RC (-8 when my average was -4), but I'm done. I did stunningly on the LR and would hate to take it again and get my average RC and LR and be back to that 171 or worse!

kpuc
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:28 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby kpuc » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:13 am

dcman06 wrote:
kpuc wrote:I performed a bit below expectations with a 170 on the October LSAT and I was debating whether or not to re-take. Then I checked my test breakdown and realized that I had gotten a -9 on the LR! For over a month, a bad PT would be -5 on the LR for me, and in the last couple of weeks, I had managed to get it down to -2.

On the Oct LSAT, my RC a was -0, and my LG was -3, which was perfectly in line with my PT averages. But a -9 LR seems to be an outlier result, a result that I haven't seen since my earliest PT days.

I was unsure about a re-take, but now, I'm very confident that I can get a better score because my Oct score was the result of a weird nose-dive in LR. That was the section that I was least worried about, and even if I did badly by my PT standards (a -5), I still would've had a -8 for the test and I would've been very happy with that score.

If you were a bit unhappy with your score and you found out it was solely due to a bombing of a section you were least worried about, would you re-take?


You have a 170. Unless your GPA was below a 3.4 and you're still in college (or within a couple years out) and the only school you wanted to go to was Yale or Harvard, I think I'll take the score and run.


I have a 3.56 GPA. Would a 170 reliably get me into Michigan?

User avatar
dcman06
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:08 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby dcman06 » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:22 am

FROM THE MOST RECENT ABA GUIDE ON THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN

GPA
25%tile was 3.55, 75%tile is 3.84, median is 3.7

LSAT
25%tile was 167, 75%tile is 170, median is 169

You have a 3.56 (right above the 25%tile GPA, but a 170 LSAT which is right at the 75th Percentile). You have a decent shot based on numbers, and not considering age (are you in college or not). You'll have an even better chance if you're a student at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, and if you're a Michigan resident. You have no shot if you're a student at THE Ohio State University.

User avatar
ThreeYears
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:26 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby ThreeYears » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:56 am

hey, buddy,

I am in the same ship, I went -11 total and -8 on LR. I am definitely retaking.

The LR is evolving, it needs some serious analysis. I have no fresh material for prep, what I will do is to go through all the tough LRs and analyzing them even more closely, writing down analysis and keep mental notes. At the same time, doing some RC and LG on the side to keep the mind fresh.

Sandro
Posts: 2526
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:12 am

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby Sandro » Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:07 pm

I went -9 on LR. I dont think I've missed that many for months in my prep, and I definitely think my lack of sleep and extenuating circumstances might have had something to do with it..

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:15 pm

kpuc wrote:I have a 3.56 GPA. Would a 170 reliably get me into Michigan?

If you ED I suspect Michigan would accept you.

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:02 pm

dcman06 wrote:
kpuc wrote:I performed a bit below expectations with a 170 on the October LSAT and I was debating whether or not to re-take. Then I checked my test breakdown and realized that I had gotten a -9 on the LR! For over a month, a bad PT would be -5 on the LR for me, and in the last couple of weeks, I had managed to get it down to -2.

On the Oct LSAT, my RC a was -0, and my LG was -3, which was perfectly in line with my PT averages. But a -9 LR seems to be an outlier result, a result that I haven't seen since my earliest PT days.

I was unsure about a re-take, but now, I'm very confident that I can get a better score because my Oct score was the result of a weird nose-dive in LR. That was the section that I was least worried about, and even if I did badly by my PT standards (a -5), I still would've had a -8 for the test and I would've been very happy with that score.

If you were a bit unhappy with your score and you found out it was solely due to a bombing of a section you were least worried about, would you re-take?


You have a 170. Unless your GPA was below a 3.4 and you're still in college (or within a couple years out) and the only school you wanted to go to was Yale or Harvard, I think I'll take the score and run.


I myself would do a laundry list of dirty deeds for a 170, but different people have different goals.

User avatar
Ragged
Posts: 1509
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby Ragged » Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:18 pm

retake to get into T6 and/or get money from lower t14. LR should be an easy fix, retake.

bruin10
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:36 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby bruin10 » Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:33 pm

There really is no guarantee you do better. There was already an uncharacteristically generous curve.

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:11 pm

bruin10 wrote:There really is no guarantee you do better. There was already an uncharacteristically generous curve.


Uncharacteristically generous after the two -14s in a row? I'm not saying one should go in the test expecting a good scoring scale, but that's a silly reason not to retake.

bruin10
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:36 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby bruin10 » Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:29 pm

First, it hasn't been two -14's in a row. December was -14. June was -12. Look at the reactions and predictions for the curve. People were preparing for -9, -10 at best (and this was out of 101). There's no reason to believe it can't be -8 like it was in December 2005 for this upcoming December test.

User avatar
ThreeYears
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:26 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby ThreeYears » Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:45 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
kpuc wrote:I have a 3.56 GPA. Would a 170 reliably get me into Michigan?

If you ED I suspect Michigan would accept you.


Hey, you highness,

I am a graduate student at UVa, getting my PhD in microbiology in about a month. Just got a mediocre 170 and the UG GPA is from China ("above average" CAS rating). Should I consider UVa or maybe an IP school like GW is a better choice for me?

thank you so much.

I apologize for hijacking the thread.

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:47 pm

bruin10 wrote:First, it hasn't been two -14's in a row. December was -14. June was -12. Look at the reactions and predictions for the curve. People were preparing for -9, -10 at best (and this was out of 101). There's no reason to believe it can't be -8 like it was in December 2005 for this upcoming December test.


http://www.powerscore.com/lsat/help/cor ... rgeted.cfm

Unless PowerScore is wrong, December was -14 and June was -14.

Forget reactions on TLS. We are an unrepresentative sample of the population.

And you're absolutely right. It could be -8 this December. It could also be -10. Or -14. Or -13. Or any other range of possibilities. No matter what the scale is, if you go into the test prepared, you SHOULD BE FINE.

OP: You know you have room for improvement. I would be doing somersaults after getting a 170, but you're clearly disappointed. Retake and profit.

User avatar
KevinP
Posts: 1324
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:56 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby KevinP » Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:56 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
bruin10 wrote:First, it hasn't been two -14's in a row. December was -14. June was -12. Look at the reactions and predictions for the curve. People were preparing for -9, -10 at best (and this was out of 101). There's no reason to believe it can't be -8 like it was in December 2005 for this upcoming December test.


http://www.powerscore.com/lsat/help/cor ... rgeted.cfm

Unless PowerScore is wrong, December was -14 and June was -14.

Forget reactions on TLS. We are an unrepresentative sample of the population.

And you're absolutely right. It could be -8 this December. It could also be -10. Or -14. Or -13. Or any other range of possibilities. No matter what the scale is, if you go into the test prepared, you SHOULD BE FINE.

OP: You know you have room for improvement. I would be doing somersaults after getting a 170, but you're clearly disappointed. Retake and profit.


December tends to have the hardest disclosed curve out of the year. I would be willing to bet it won't be less generous than a -11.

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:59 pm

KevinP wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
bruin10 wrote:First, it hasn't been two -14's in a row. December was -14. June was -12. Look at the reactions and predictions for the curve. People were preparing for -9, -10 at best (and this was out of 101). There's no reason to believe it can't be -8 like it was in December 2005 for this upcoming December test.


http://www.powerscore.com/lsat/help/cor ... rgeted.cfm

Unless PowerScore is wrong, December was -14 and June was -14.

Forget reactions on TLS. We are an unrepresentative sample of the population.

And you're absolutely right. It could be -8 this December. It could also be -10. Or -14. Or -13. Or any other range of possibilities. No matter what the scale is, if you go into the test prepared, you SHOULD BE FINE.

OP: You know you have room for improvement. I would be doing somersaults after getting a 170, but you're clearly disappointed. Retake and profit.


December tends to have the hardest disclosed curve out of the year. I would be willing to bet it won't be less generous than a -11.


Either way, I still think the OP has potential for improvement.

User avatar
KevinP
Posts: 1324
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:56 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby KevinP » Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:05 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
KevinP wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
bruin10 wrote:First, it hasn't been two -14's in a row. December was -14. June was -12. Look at the reactions and predictions for the curve. People were preparing for -9, -10 at best (and this was out of 101). There's no reason to believe it can't be -8 like it was in December 2005 for this upcoming December test.


http://www.powerscore.com/lsat/help/cor ... rgeted.cfm

Unless PowerScore is wrong, December was -14 and June was -14.

Forget reactions on TLS. We are an unrepresentative sample of the population.

And you're absolutely right. It could be -8 this December. It could also be -10. Or -14. Or -13. Or any other range of possibilities. No matter what the scale is, if you go into the test prepared, you SHOULD BE FINE.

OP: You know you have room for improvement. I would be doing somersaults after getting a 170, but you're clearly disappointed. Retake and profit.


December tends to have the hardest disclosed curve out of the year. I would be willing to bet it won't be less generous than a -11.


Either way, I still think the OP has potential for improvement.


I have a tendency to go off on tangents which makes me sound like an asshole but you are definitely correct. Being prepared is always the way to go.

OP: As someone else pointed out, you can definitely improve on LR so I would advise a retake.

anstud06
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:59 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby anstud06 » Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:57 pm

It hasn't been -14 two tests in a row no matter how you're counting. October 2010 was -12 (101 questions scored). June 2010 -12 (99 questions scored). December 09 -14.

http://moststronglysupported.com/blog/l ... -released/

Again, the curve for June was -12. While you needed 87 (the same number as December) for a 170 in June, there were only 99 questions scored.

HeavenWood wrote:
bruin10 wrote:First, it hasn't been two -14's in a row. December was -14. June was -12. Look at the reactions and predictions for the curve. People were preparing for -9, -10 at best (and this was out of 101). There's no reason to believe it can't be -8 like it was in December 2005 for this upcoming December test.


http://www.powerscore.com/lsat/help/cor ... rgeted.cfm

Unless PowerScore is wrong, December was -14 and June was -14.

Forget reactions on TLS. We are an unrepresentative sample of the population.

And you're absolutely right. It could be -8 this December. It could also be -10. Or -14. Or -13. Or any other range of possibilities. No matter what the scale is, if you go into the test prepared, you SHOULD BE FINE.

OP: You know you have room for improvement. I would be doing somersaults after getting a 170, but you're clearly disappointed. Retake and profit.

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:00 pm

I thought June was out of 101 questions. Mea culpa.

kpuc
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:28 pm

Re: Uncharacteristically bombed the LR: Automatic retake?

Postby kpuc » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:25 pm

I'm going to send in my apps as soon as my LORs come in, except to my reach schools of NYU and Columbia. I'm going to re-take in December, however, because I'm pretty sure I can get higher than 170. I figure a 170 is enough to get me a decent chance at a school like Michigan if I send in my app early enough, and if I do better on the re-take, I'll have even a better chance.

Should I send in my apps to NYU and Columbia in November anyway, even though I am likely to be automatically rejected at 170? Or will they not look at my app until my December score is in?




Return to “LSAT Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alexandros, Baidu [Spider], cherrygalore and 8 guests