Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

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JazzOne
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Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby JazzOne » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:02 am

eggy wrote:
penguin wrote:
Well, I'm flattered. It seems like you like my country, Japan. I hope you do well in your prep. Good luck.

BTW, I'm into this prep for about 2 months consistently and don't see that much progress yet either but I'm not giving up because I don't want to regret it later. So I just thought two weeks is a little too short to jump on to the conclusion.


Like is an understatement. There's no where I love more in the world than Japan (well, Kyoto to be exact).


Edubs: I'll let you guys know how things are going a few weeks down the road.

I used to teach for Princeton Review. That company was so good to me, that I still feel connected to it even though I am probably done teaching for a while. At any rate, I am sorry you had a bad experience, and I just want to offer my help. As you can see, there are many, many helpful people on this forum. You should take full advantage of the forum because it is a wonderful (and free) resource. However, if you ever want to ask a personal question, feel free to PM me. Or, if you just want me to weigh in on a general question, create a thread and send me a PM with a link to the thread. I always thought PR's products were pricey, so I am willing to help you out in any way that I can.

taxguy
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:46 pm

Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby taxguy » Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:48 pm

Several observations on the LSAT.

First although it might be more "coachable" than that of other standardized tests, there are limits. If you can't learn to read and skim quickly, you won't do well no matter how hard you work. It is primarily a reading test.

Second, the games section is probably more coachable than other types of questions. However, the games section is only about 25% of the test to my knowledge. Even improvement in the games section has its limitations. Again, if you don't have the mind and insight for those types of questions, you probably won't do as well as someone else who does have this innate ability to do logic games.

Third, 151 is about the 50% mark on the test. This means that there are a LOT of people (almost 50% of the test takers) get below 151. Moreover, there a many people who score in the low to mid 150s too. This shouldn't get you down.

Finally, the LSAT is a total bull test. As a practicing lawyer for many years, I don't see any corelation between it and either law school performance or on determining who will be good in practice. Any severely timed exam can't be that effective of a prognosticator.

Bottom line: Yes, study hard for test and do your best. That is all that can be expected of you.You can't beat yourself up over it.

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penguin
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Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby penguin » Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:55 pm

JazzOne wrote:
eggy wrote:
penguin wrote:
Well, I'm flattered. It seems like you like my country, Japan. I hope you do well in your prep. Good luck.

BTW, I'm into this prep for about 2 months consistently and don't see that much progress yet either but I'm not giving up because I don't want to regret it later. So I just thought two weeks is a little too short to jump on to the conclusion.


Like is an understatement. There's no where I love more in the world than Japan (well, Kyoto to be exact).


Edubs: I'll let you guys know how things are going a few weeks down the road.

I used to teach for Princeton Review. That company was so good to me, that I still feel connected to it even though I am probably done teaching for a while. At any rate, I am sorry you had a bad experience, and I just want to offer my help. As you can see, there are many, many helpful people on this forum. You should take full advantage of the forum because it is a wonderful (and free) resource. However, if you ever want to ask a personal question, feel free to PM me. Or, if you just want me to weigh in on a general question, create a thread and send me a PM with a link to the thread. I always thought PR's products were pricey, so I am willing to help you out in any way that I can.



Wow, that's really helpful. I wish any of PowerScore teachers are helpful as you are. When I took PS full course, it didn't help me that much... Although this forum is a nice resource to gain more insights on lsat, it is also addictive. I should stay away from here and get to the books :oops:


eggy
Yeah, Kyoto is a nice city although I've been there only a couple times. It is a very old city and has so much history behind every little thing. It is also nice to walk around the city since there are so many trees which calm me down. :) (oh, but again, everywhere in Japan has more deeper green than here in CA). I try to go back to Japan at least once a year to see my family. :P

nStiver
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Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby nStiver » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:56 pm

Thanks guys! I am glad to see that my post motivated some people. As to the guy who said that people who do not have a mind that innately grasps logic games will probably not perform as well, the OP should realize that there are exceptions to this. Trust me, when I began studying, no one was as bad at LGs as me. However, I was able to master the games section through sheer brute force and reviewing every single game multiple times. Now I can roll any LG section. Yes, it is very discouraging to put in hours and hours of practice, only to find that you still blow at LG. But trust me, if you put in the effort, it will click.

Yes, there are people who are incapable of performing well on the lsat. But those people are not the ones that score in around the 50th percentile on their first few tests. If you can do this, my bet is that you can dominate the LSAT if you practice enough. Many will burn out, but those who persevere will be the ones with the 168-180 at the end of the day.

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GoGetIt
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Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby GoGetIt » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:06 am

This thread is depressing.

noname12345
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Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby noname12345 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:30 am

Wow this whole thread has been really helpful because I'm in the same situation as eggy. Thanks everyone for all your thoughtful posts.

nStiver
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Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby nStiver » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:36 am

GoGetIt wrote:This thread is depressing.


Your depressing.

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incompetentia
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Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby incompetentia » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:37 am

nStiver wrote:
GoGetIt wrote:This thread is depressing.


Your depressing.

Sentence fragment.

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JazzOne
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Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby JazzOne » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:39 am

incompetentia wrote:
nStiver wrote:
GoGetIt wrote:This thread is depressing.


Your depressing.

Sentence fragment.

Ditto.

nStiver
Posts: 388
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:15 am

Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby nStiver » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:45 am

JazzOne wrote:
incompetentia wrote:
nStiver wrote:
GoGetIt wrote:This thread is depressing.


Your depressing.

Sentence fragment.

Ditto.


Your right.

jay jay
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Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby jay jay » Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:07 am

Just to throw in my personal experience with the LSAT:

My first PT back in February was a 153, then I slipped to a 152, then got a 154 on my next PT. This was after two months of studying four hours a day for two months. I was going to take the June 10 LSAT, but decided against it as even after four months of studying, I couldn't get over a 158 on a practice test. And yes, I did take a prep course, a really good one at that.

Over the summer, dedicated myself to the LSAT in prep for the October 10 exam and started PT-ing in the high 160s throughout August and then the low 170s in September. I'm expecting my LSAT score for the October test to be somewhere between 168-172. Long story short, it just takes some time to get comfortable with the test for some people, keep at it and one day something might just click in your mind dude.

BEST OF LUCK.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby Patriot1208 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:50 am

nStiver wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
incompetentia wrote:
nStiver wrote:Your depressing.

Sentence fragment.

Ditto.


Your right.


You're not.

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Cmoss
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Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby Cmoss » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:08 am

+1

you should consider working on your english, it might get you a few points right there.

nStiver
Posts: 388
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:15 am

Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby nStiver » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:32 pm

I dunt no inglish good enuf to post, OK?

PinkFloydPerson
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Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby PinkFloydPerson » Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:51 pm

eggy wrote:Alex and Nieder: Thanks for the tips. I will add both of those to my routine!!!

nStiver wrote:Dude my first few tests were in the 147-153 range. It took months and months, but I eventually broke the 160 barrier. After studying for almost a year I can regularly break 170 in practice. I think I may have gotten a 170 on the real thing, but I won't know until the 1st.

From what it sounds like to me is that you are not taking responsibility for your own performance on the test. You seem to be relying on outside factors for motivation, like a course or a private tutor. I think people with this mentality tend to score poorly until they break out of it and gain internal motivation. I was in your shoes once. I first took a course because I thought that "I didn't have the motivation to do this on my own" or some other BS reason like that. I didn't start to see improvement until I essentially said screw the Kaplan course, bought a bunch of PTs, got the Bibles, and took matters into my own hands.

You can do the same thing. Do not blame your lack of improvement on factors that are out side of your control. This talk of your having some sort inherent inability to perform well on the LSAT is self sabotaging bull shit. I can tell you right now why you have not seen the improvement you desire: You have not studied in the manner that is necessary for you to see improvement. You can have a private tutor spoon feed you all of the LSAT info in the world, but but it will not do jack shit for you unless you put that knowledge to use by aggressively following a self study plan that includes timed tests and intensive review of numerous LSAT questions.

You have to sink your teeth into it and break down the individual questions on your own. I am convinced that without a confident and pro active attitude, you will never get your mind around the LSAT. It is a standardized test, not something that you can study for a little while and have it down. You need to train your brain to recognize the patterns inherent in the test at the most fundamental level. Because no two tests have the same questions, you need to be so comfortable with the various question types that it becomes automatic.

Have you reviewed hundreds of individual LR questions on your own? My guess is that you have not, and until you do, you will be stuck in the same spot you are today. Have you reviewed each and every question on those diagnostic tests you took? My guess is that you have not. This is why you are not seeing improvement. Use the tutor to answer questions that come up durring your review. The tutor can not make you better at the LSAT. Only you can do that.

Review every question on the LSATs that you have completed. Suck it up and work through the LGB and the LRB. I do not buy the excuse that it "didn't work for you". You just didn't put in enough effort. You are perfectly capable of understanding the material in those books. Of course it won't work right away. It takes lots of practice by implementing it on real PTs. I can guarantee that you did not work through the bibles from cover to cover. If you had, you would have seen improvement.

After you have reviewed every question on the tests that you have completed, and after you have worked through at least half of both of the bibles, come back and ask for advice. Only then will you start to get a handle on the test. It may take you 6 hours a day. This is what you have to do to get better. Until you put in the long, hard hours reviewing question after boring question, you will see no improvement. So take responsibility for your own fate and get out there and crush the test.



HOLY SHIT!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
Why do we not have a "I'm not worthy" smily. That was an epic post man. Since I read this message I have:
1. Cancelled my enrollment in the course I was taking. I was lying to myself about it's effectiveness and the course itself was terrible.
2. Set out my own study plan and pulled out my 3 bibles and practice test books.
3. Punched myself in the face.

I think I'm ready.
Thanks man.


I agree. Well done! I like how you mentioned self sabotage, that is a good point.

eggy
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:11 am

Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby eggy » Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:38 pm

JazzOne wrote:I used to teach for Princeton Review. That company was so good to me, that I still feel connected to it even though I am probably done teaching for a while. At any rate, I am sorry you had a bad experience, and I just want to offer my help. As you can see, there are many, many helpful people on this forum. You should take full advantage of the forum because it is a wonderful (and free) resource. However, if you ever want to ask a personal question, feel free to PM me. Or, if you just want me to weigh in on a general question, create a thread and send me a PM with a link to the thread. I always thought PR's products were pricey, so I am willing to help you out in any way that I can.


Thanks very much! I will definitely shoot you a PM if I have any questions :)

taxguy wrote:Several observations on the LSAT.

First although it might be more "coachable" than that of other standardized tests, there are limits. If you can't learn to read and skim quickly, you won't do well no matter how hard you work. It is primarily a reading test.

Second, the games section is probably more coachable than other types of questions. However, the games section is only about 25% of the test to my knowledge. Even improvement in the games section has its limitations. Again, if you don't have the mind and insight for those types of questions, you probably won't do as well as someone else who does have this innate ability to do logic games.

Third, 151 is about the 50% mark on the test. This means that there are a LOT of people (almost 50% of the test takers) get below 151. Moreover, there a many people who score in the low to mid 150s too. This shouldn't get you down.

Finally, the LSAT is a total bull test. As a practicing lawyer for many years, I don't see any corelation between it and either law school performance or on determining who will be good in practice. Any severely timed exam can't be that effective of a prognosticator.

Bottom line: Yes, study hard for test and do your best. That is all that can be expected of you.You can't beat yourself up over it.


I know it's bullshit, and I KNOW I would make a good lawyer, especially with my language skills and work experience, that's why I'm getting so frustrated.

I'm trying to do about 15-20 logic games per day for this week, and working through the LG bible, then next week I'm gonna tackle arguments. Trying to do 2 practice tests a week as well.


penguin wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
eggy wrote:
penguin wrote:
Well, I'm flattered. It seems like you like my country, Japan. I hope you do well in your prep. Good luck.

BTW, I'm into this prep for about 2 months consistently and don't see that much progress yet either but I'm not giving up because I don't want to regret it later. So I just thought two weeks is a little too short to jump on to the conclusion.


Like is an understatement. There's no where I love more in the world than Japan (well, Kyoto to be exact).


Edubs: I'll let you guys know how things are going a few weeks down the road.

I used to teach for Princeton Review. That company was so good to me, that I still feel connected to it even though I am probably done teaching for a while. At any rate, I am sorry you had a bad experience, and I just want to offer my help. As you can see, there are many, many helpful people on this forum. You should take full advantage of the forum because it is a wonderful (and free) resource. However, if you ever want to ask a personal question, feel free to PM me. Or, if you just want me to weigh in on a general question, create a thread and send me a PM with a link to the thread. I always thought PR's products were pricey, so I am willing to help you out in any way that I can.



Wow, that's really helpful. I wish any of PowerScore teachers are helpful as you are. When I took PS full course, it didn't help me that much... Although this forum is a nice resource to gain more insights on lsat, it is also addictive. I should stay away from here and get to the books :oops:


eggy
Yeah, Kyoto is a nice city although I've been there only a couple times. It is a very old city and has so much history behind every little thing. It is also nice to walk around the city since there are so many trees which calm me down. :) (oh, but again, everywhere in Japan has more deeper green than here in CA). I try to go back to Japan at least once a year to see my family. :P


I'm jealous... The first thing I do when I finish my LSAT is start saving money so I can go on a 1-month snowboard vacation to Japan :D

eggy
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:11 am

Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby eggy » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:41 am

Took a practice LSAT this morning and scored a 158 :):):)

bigben
Posts: 703
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Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby bigben » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:44 am

There are lots of other great careers out there. In fact, most recent law grads probably don't consider their careers great at all.

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penguin
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Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby penguin » Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:42 pm

eggy wrote:Took a practice LSAT this morning and scored a 158 :):):)


That's great!! Congrats :lol: I guess you didn't need this thread after all.

eggy
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:11 am

Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby eggy » Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:09 pm

penguin wrote:
eggy wrote:Took a practice LSAT this morning and scored a 158 :):):)


That's great!! Congrats :lol: I guess you didn't need this thread after all.


Or maybe it was thanks to this thread that I managed to get as high a score as I did.

Classic cause and effect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

....

以上です。

edubs003
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Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby edubs003 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:08 am

eggy wrote:Took a practice LSAT this morning and scored a 158 :):):)


See, it just took a little time. Now don't freak out if your next one is a 155. Just shows you how much more studying you need.

eggy
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:11 am

Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby eggy » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:57 am

edubs003 wrote:
eggy wrote:Took a practice LSAT this morning and scored a 158 :):):)


See, it just took a little time. Now don't freak out if your next one is a 155. Just shows you how much more studying you need.


Yes sir!!!

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JoeShmoe11
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Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby JoeShmoe11 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:40 pm

This is probably one of the nicest, most motivational threads I've seen in all my time on the interwebz. You guys are really a great community when you try :D Eggy - I wish you the best. They've given you some great advice and some great motivation!

eggy
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:11 am

Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby eggy » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:35 pm

JoeShmoe11 wrote:This is probably one of the nicest, most motivational threads I've seen in all my time on the interwebz. You guys are really a great community when you try :D Eggy - I wish you the best. They've given you some great advice and some great motivation!


You can say that again :o:o:o

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CSCS Trainer
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Re: Scoring low 150s after months of practice.

Postby CSCS Trainer » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:00 am


I know... But I still wonder if the way in which certain people think can act as a barrier that prevents them from scoring well on these tests.

For example, when I studied Japanese I did better than anyone in my classes because the material came almost like it was second nature to me. No matter how hard some of the kids tried they wouldn't do as well as I did, and I was putting arguably less effort in.



As someone who studied motor development and motor learning in my undergrad - yes, some people's brains are wired differently. For the life of me, I cannot figure out the LG section. Doesn't matter how much I study, I understand all the concepts and rules, but I cannot diagram. I also cannot see 3D on paper, so I had an extremely hard time in my Human Anatomy course because my prof tested completely on 3D drawings on paper, and the test consisted of only 7-8 questions. I knew all the material, could point everything out on the actual human body ( got 100% in lab ) but could not distinguish or separate lines ( divisions of muscles or nerves/veins/arteries) on paper. Prof didn't care and told me I must be learning disabled and should drop out.

For me, I went over the other reading comp sections on my first two tests to see where I made stupid mistakes - i.e. reading too fast, second guessing/changing my answer, etc. Funny, on every answer I had changed, I actually had the correct answer the first time ( needed to improve self-confidence ). I really took my time to master those sections then went to work on the LG section.

On my prep tests, I would maybe miss 3-5 total on all the other sections - thus giving me a mid-high 160's just calculating those sections, that way if I still didn't master the LG section and even missed 10 -15, I'd still end up with a decent score ( for me anyway ).

Now, I guess I'll see if my strategy worked today when I get my score.




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