Brief story on LSAT perspective...

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MysticalWheel
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Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby MysticalWheel » Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:13 am

I visited my UG univ. on Friday to update my final transcripts. The office receptionist was a girl who appeared no older than 20, so I am assuming she was probably a sophomore since the univ. almost always selects applicants for such positions from the student body. When she noticed that I was submitting the LSAC transcript form, she became quite giddy and started throwing about amusing remarks, in between my polite acknowledgments, about how "law school sounds so awesome" and "it's what I'm going for." Then she started quizzing me about the LSAT: "have you taken it?"; "how long did you study?"; "what do you recommend?" and so on. I obliged her queries, emphasizing the usual suspects: preptests, bibles, reviewing mistakes, etc. It was plain that she was not familiar with the Powerscore publications because she started scribbling the names down on a notepad as soon as I mentioned them. After a few more exchanges about preparing for the exam, I concluded by telling her that the test can certainly be cracked with dedicated study, and that I had never heard of anyone who did extremely well on the test without such dedicated study. To this, the girl responded with something along the lines of "Oh, but my sister's boyfriend did! He had never studied at all and on his first try he got a 157." I very nearly broke 2 nails by involuntarily tensing my hand against the counter when I heard this. All I could think of as a reply was "Oh, but I mean really, really well. 157 is good, but I meant like phenomenally well." I l left the office hoping that my recommendations will at least help broaden her perspective, and also thinking how great a contrast her's was from mine.

And before anyone start's flaming me about snobbery and whatnot, please know that I am posting this because I find it to be an interesting occurrence, and to highlight the disparity that exists regarding the exam (and surely everything in association as well).

nStiver
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Re: Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby nStiver » Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:17 am

MW! After the other thread about the LRB being out dated, I am now following you around and am going to accuse you of snobbery! :mrgreen:

Seriously though, I think a lot of people have a different perspective on the LSAT when they are in the "pre-TLS" phase. The bulk of test takers do not realize what it takes to prepare for a truly high score. Barring the occasional genius, most people score in the low 150s when they start. Many do not realize that they can raise their score by more than a few points. I have even heard people in positions of authority say that it is impossible to improve on the LSAT because it measures native intelligence! Before I came to TLS my goal was a mighty 158. After coming hear and reading PP's study guide and other advice, I realized how learnable the test was. My goal subsequently went from 158 to 160, to 164, and finally to 170.

I still see people from my old kaplan class who look at me like I am crazy when I tell them that I am re taking the test because I only got a 164. I try to turn as many people on to TLS and the proper study methods as I possibly can. You did the right thing by telling her about the proper study methods.

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kkklick
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Re: Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby kkklick » Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:52 am

nStiver wrote:MW! After the other thread about the LRB being out dated, I am now following you around and am going to accuse you of snobbery! :mrgreen:

Seriously though, I think a lot of people have a different perspective on the LSAT when they are in the "pre-TLS" phase. The bulk of test takers do not realize what it takes to prepare for a truly high score. Barring the occasional genius, most people score in the low 150s when they start. Many do not realize that they can raise their score by more than a few points. I have even heard people in positions of authority say that it is impossible to improve on the LSAT because it measures native intelligence! Before I came to TLS my goal was a mighty 158. After coming hear and reading PP's study guide and other advice, I realized how learnable the test was. My goal subsequently went from 158 to 160, to 164, and finally to 170.

I still see people from my old kaplan class who look at me like I am crazy when I tell them that I am re taking the test because I only got a 164. I try to turn as many people on to TLS and the proper study methods as I possibly can. You did the right thing by telling her about the proper study methods.


Before I came to TLS, I thought 163 was my dream score. Now I think I will be utterly disappointed with anything less then a 170. I think being exposed to people who aim very high tends to rub off on you. I'm sure if the girl you mentioned came to TLS or had friends who were aiming higher she would not think a 157 is a "great" score

LogicGamez
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Re: Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby LogicGamez » Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:09 am

Point her to TLS obviously

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Patriot1208
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Re: Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:17 am

kkklick wrote:
nStiver wrote:MW! After the other thread about the LRB being out dated, I am now following you around and am going to accuse you of snobbery! :mrgreen:

Seriously though, I think a lot of people have a different perspective on the LSAT when they are in the "pre-TLS" phase. The bulk of test takers do not realize what it takes to prepare for a truly high score. Barring the occasional genius, most people score in the low 150s when they start. Many do not realize that they can raise their score by more than a few points. I have even heard people in positions of authority say that it is impossible to improve on the LSAT because it measures native intelligence! Before I came to TLS my goal was a mighty 158. After coming hear and reading PP's study guide and other advice, I realized how learnable the test was. My goal subsequently went from 158 to 160, to 164, and finally to 170.

I still see people from my old kaplan class who look at me like I am crazy when I tell them that I am re taking the test because I only got a 164. I try to turn as many people on to TLS and the proper study methods as I possibly can. You did the right thing by telling her about the proper study methods.


Before I came to TLS, I thought 163 was my dream score. Now I think I will be utterly disappointed with anything less then a 170. I think being exposed to people who aim very high tends to rub off on you. I'm sure if the girl you mentioned came to TLS or had friends who were aiming higher she would not think a 157 is a "great" score


Same, before TLS I thought, as long as I got into Ohio State i'd be happy.

ND'10
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Re: Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby ND'10 » Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:45 am

Studying for the LSAT is a lot like that line in The Matrix about seeing "how far down this rabbit hole goes."

At first I thought I could just buy the Kaplan book from Borders, crank out the problem sets and 3 PTs in there, and get a low to mid 160s score (my initial goal). Then I started researching more into LSAT prep and decided "well OK, I'll buy a '10 Official LSATs' book and do some of those." Then I found out about the Bibles, and bought the Logic Games Bible since I was struggling with that section. I loved it so much I bought the Logical Reasoning bible. I continued digging PowerScore a lot and I bought their 2004 LSATs Deconstructed book and went through that. I then heard how much recent tests differ from past tests and bought tests 56-59 on Amazon. After realizing that may not be enough, I bought the rest from 49 up including the newly released PT 60. I also found question types or specific sections I wanted to drill, and bought a bunch of extra questions/sections from Cambridge LSAT.

What started with me just wanting to do the Kaplan book and 3 PTs, ended up with me completing many prep books and probably around 25-30 PTs. And if I didn't get a 170 in October, 5 points above my initial 'dream score,' I'll probably be back for more sometime next year before I apply for the 2012 cycle.

And there's probably a lot of people who would say "25 PTs? That's it???" It truly is amazing the wide range of perspectives a lot of people have on studying for this test. It seems like a lot of people at my test center were really just shooting for 150 or so, and if they applied themselves they probably could be looking at 160s and a whole higher tier of schools. Oh well, I guess.

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MysticalWheel
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Re: Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby MysticalWheel » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:53 pm

nStiver wrote:MW! After the other thread about the LRB being out dated, I am now following you around and am going to accuse you of snobbery! :mrgreen:

Seriously though, I think a lot of people have a different perspective on the LSAT when they are in the "pre-TLS" phase. The bulk of test takers do not realize what it takes to prepare for a truly high score. Barring the occasional genius, most people score in the low 150s when they start. Many do not realize that they can raise their score by more than a few points. I have even heard people in positions of authority say that it is impossible to improve on the LSAT because it measures native intelligence! Before I came to TLS my goal was a mighty 158. After coming hear and reading PP's study guide and other advice, I realized how learnable the test was. My goal subsequently went from 158 to 160, to 164, and finally to 170.

I still see people from my old kaplan class who look at me like I am crazy when I tell them that I am re taking the test because I only got a 164. I try to turn as many people on to TLS and the proper study methods as I possibly can. You did the right thing by telling her about the proper study methods.


Ha! I wouldn't have been too surprised if you really were part of the "snob" police. My only regret is not mentioning TLS to the girl, but I'm sure she'll be all right with the preptests and the bibles.

MW

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incompetentia
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Re: Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby incompetentia » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:17 pm

I was hoping for a score in the high 160s. Was hoping to go back to Case (high T2 school, my alma mater) at least...
Then I took two diagnostics and found this place. Now my girlfriend's parents are all like "OMG HES GONA GO TO AN IVY" and I'm like jesus chill out everybody gets a 175...wait I've been hanging out on TLS too long

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MysticalWheel
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Re: Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby MysticalWheel » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:33 pm

incompetentia wrote:I was hoping for a score in the high 160s. Was hoping to go back to Case (high T2 school, my alma mater) at least...
Then I took two diagnostics and found this place. Now my girlfriend's parents are all like "OMG HES GONA GO TO AN IVY" and I'm like jesus chill out everybody gets a 175...wait I've been hanging out on TLS too long


Priceless.

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incompetentia
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Re: Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby incompetentia » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:35 pm

I still can't believe my train of thought went that way...and yet I still keep coming back. Funny though how the average number thrown about decreases by about 6 points following a test

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minnbills
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Re: Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby minnbills » Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:40 pm

It just highlights the ultra-competetive (at least by personal standards) that many on this site exhibit. People who are aiming at getting into top programs by and large are already high achievers.

It's important to remember that most of the population isn't like that- and most people will not break 170 and will not be going t14, nor will they necessarily aim at doing so.

That's my take at least.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:52 pm

minnbills wrote:It just highlights the ultra-competetive (at least by personal standards) that many on this site exhibit. People who are aiming at getting into top programs by and large are already high achievers.

It's important to remember that most of the population isn't like that- and most people will not break 170 and will not be going t14, nor will they necessarily aim at doing so.

That's my take at least.


Why is it important to remember that? It has no bearing on my relative view on success and failure.

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Adjudicator
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Re: Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby Adjudicator » Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:03 pm

minnbills wrote:It just highlights the ultra-competetive (at least by personal standards) that many on this site exhibit. People who are aiming at getting into top programs by and large are already high achievers.

It's important to remember that most of the population isn't like that- and most people will not break 170 and will not be going t14, nor will they necessarily aim at doing so.

That's my take at least.


I get what you're trying to say.... We're better than them!

Right on, my man... screw those stupid proles!

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cornell
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Re: Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby cornell » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:01 am

well, all I can say is that people are different, some are happy with a 160, while others might totally freak out if they get that score (yes, that includes many of us here on TLS). But whatevers the case, after studying religiously for the test, I've now come to the conclusion that it's just a fucking test, and what I did was probably an overkill.

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sophia.olive
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Re: Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby sophia.olive » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:35 am

cornell wrote:well, all I can say is that people are different, some are happy with a 160, while others might totally freak out if they get that score (yes, that includes many of us here on TLS). But whatevers the case, after studying religiously for the test, I've now come to the conclusion that it's just a fucking test, and what I did was probably an overkill.


Looks like all that studying made you come to the wrong conclusion.

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whirledpeas86
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Re: Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby whirledpeas86 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:37 am

minnbills wrote:It just highlights the ultra-competetive (at least by personal standards) that many on this site exhibit.


Personally, I don't look at TLS as particularly competitive. Yes, many people have relatively high goals, but I don't see it as competition with anyone else on the board, mostly just a desire to do your personal best. If it truly were ultra-competitive, people would be far less willing to provide helpful tips/advice and whatnot, hoping not just that they do well, but that everyone else does Not do well.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby Patriot1208 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:32 am

sophia.olive wrote:
cornell wrote:well, all I can say is that people are different, some are happy with a 160, while others might totally freak out if they get that score (yes, that includes many of us here on TLS). But whatevers the case, after studying religiously for the test, I've now come to the conclusion that it's just a fucking test, and what I did was probably an overkill.


Looks like all that studying made you come to the wrong conclusion.


This. As has been hashed out before, it's "just a fucking test" that has huge implications on your future.

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cornell
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Re: Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby cornell » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:13 am

Patriot1208 wrote:
sophia.olive wrote:
cornell wrote:well, all I can say is that people are different, some are happy with a 160, while others might totally freak out if they get that score (yes, that includes many of us here on TLS). But whatevers the case, after studying religiously for the test, I've now come to the conclusion that it's just a fucking test, and what I did was probably an overkill.


Looks like all that studying made you come to the wrong conclusion.


This. As has been hashed out before, it's "just a fucking test" that has huge implications on your future.



don't get me wrong, before I took the LSAT I was obsessed with it, but now I think of it I believe I could have reduced my anxiety if I didn't give it so much weight.

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TeamBadass
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Re: Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby TeamBadass » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:29 am

I actually know somebody who got in the mid-170s on the first full LSAT he ever took. He had been studying a little on a couple of the sections, but never took a practice test. Some people are just geniuses who can do it... sadly, most of us do have to study a ton.

But yes, a 157 isn't really something to brag about.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby Patriot1208 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:38 am

cornell wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
sophia.olive wrote:
cornell wrote:well, all I can say is that people are different, some are happy with a 160, while others might totally freak out if they get that score (yes, that includes many of us here on TLS). But whatevers the case, after studying religiously for the test, I've now come to the conclusion that it's just a fucking test, and what I did was probably an overkill.


Looks like all that studying made you come to the wrong conclusion.


This. As has been hashed out before, it's "just a fucking test" that has huge implications on your future.



don't get me wrong, before I took the LSAT I was obsessed with it, but now I think of it I believe I could have reduced my anxiety if I didn't give it so much weight.


Maybe so. But the reason we give it so much weight, is because schools do. And what school you go to has huge implications on your future earnings/succesful career as many people see it. You can try to reduce stress by ignoring that but the reason so many of us get stressed about it is because the above. Personally, I didn't get that stressed because I am not even sure on law school. But, if I knew law school was what I had to do with my life, i'd be pretty fucking stressed.

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androstan
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Re: Brief story on LSAT perspective...

Postby androstan » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:23 am

Don't point people to the proper study methods. Don't turn them on to TLS. We will lose our edge.




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