30 Minute Sections?

epark84
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30 Minute Sections?

Postby epark84 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:46 pm

I have been studying for a few months now and have a good grasp of the concepts (scoring mid to high 160s on PTs). I have read on this forum that once you have pretty good accuracy, it's good to start trimming sections to 30-34 minutes. To people that subscribe to this method, how is this helpful? Do you do this with new exams that you have yet to do? I am debating if I should begin cutting my section time down while working on PTs, or continue to work through them with 35 mins. Isn't it important to have an accurate assessment of my ability, working through sections with the actual 35min time?

cowgirl_bebop
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby cowgirl_bebop » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:22 pm

epark84 wrote:I have been studying for a few months now and have a good grasp of the concepts (scoring mid to high 160s on PTs). I have read on this forum that once you have pretty good accuracy, it's good to start trimming sections to 30-34 minutes. To people that subscribe to this method, how is this helpful? Do you do this with new exams that you have yet to do? I am debating if I should begin cutting my section time down while working on PTs, or continue to work through them with 35 mins. Isn't it important to have an accurate assessment of my ability, working through sections with the actual 35min time?


I only did something like this with games. I ALWAYS ran over, and sometimes would never get to the last game, so I practiced "5 minute emergencies". My accuracy was great, but my timing was SLOW. So I practiced doing each game in 5 minutes to force myself to move faster. My internal clock sped up, and I was able to tackle all four games (well, mostly) on the real thing. I thought it was really helpful. If I had not have done that I would have had to skip an entire game on the LSAT last Saturday, and that would have been DISASTROUS.
Last edited by cowgirl_bebop on Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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incompetentia
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby incompetentia » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:31 pm

Unless you're finishing sections under 30 minutes already, this is a good idea. It'll feel more rushed when you get to the real thing no matter what.

fosterp
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby fosterp » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:34 pm

Dropping the clock and putting more pressure to go faster helps with training yourself to just choose an answer and move on rather than wasting precious time on a hard question. I find that skipping and moving on leaves ample time at the end of the section to go back and check the ones you skipped, and a second pass after finishing the section makes the answer seem a bit easier to figure out. For me, being stumped on a question sets in the panic mode and clouds my thinking. Finishing a section with time to spare makes me relaxed, and I think better that way.

Thats just me though.

epark84
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby epark84 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:17 pm

thanks for the feedback. I tried doing a PT with 33 min sections today and I felt quite rushed. I made more simple mistakes than usual, especially in RC.

As you continued to work with shortened time, did you find that you were able to improve your decision-making in the tighter time-frame?

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Remnantofisrael
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby Remnantofisrael » Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:29 pm

Nightrunner wrote:I took every PT section I ever had in 30 minute intervals. Being used to 30 minutes can come in damn handy on the real thing - either for review, or to have what-feels-like five extra minutes to deal with an especially random question or series of questions.


I'd be interested in knowing what you were scoring before you began doing that. I agree that it would be a great method, but I figure until you are over 170 consistently with full time, learning to be faster does you less good than learning to answer the right way. Unless of course you feel your current score is close to your ceiling.

Except LG. I think seeing how accurate you can be giving exactly 5 minutes per game can turn you into a LG monster. i was never able to do it. I would miss too many questions and realized I need to take the time on my setup to answer quickly. 7 minutes max was very doable, but 5 min was just too short.

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Remnantofisrael
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby Remnantofisrael » Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:32 pm

If you don't mind me asking, did it boost your score a lot or just prepare you to survive the insanity of test day (which has its own value obviously)?

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bk1
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby bk1 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:47 pm

Oddly enough I have a similar story to NR. However on my test the fact that I wasn't actually on pace to finish each section in 25-30 mins threw me off a bit.

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kkklick
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby kkklick » Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:51 pm

The funny thing is both times I wrote the LSAT I never ran out of time on a section. Even RC which I was horrible at finishing in 35 minutes I finished in time on both tests. I think when the adrenaline has you going you go through it quicker, but if you run into a difficult or time-killer question, you have to have the self discipline to move on and come back to it after.

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Arbiter213
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby Arbiter213 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:55 pm

I practiced with 8 minute single games first. Then I moved on to 30 minute sections across the board. This is great because it:

1) Keeps PT time to exactly 2 hours.
2) Increases your timing
3)Crystalizes techniques. I found that I was thinking in shorthand as I did it more and more, to the point where I had internalized question types and was vastly improved (finishing every section with 5 minutes to spare with few wrong).

Can't guarantee this will help everyone though (I started PT'ing in the 170s).

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kkklick
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby kkklick » Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:57 pm

Arbiter213 wrote:I practiced with 8 minute single games first. Then I moved on to 30 minute sections across the board. This is great because it:

1) Keeps PT time to exactly 2 hours.
2) Increases your timing
3)Crystalizes techniques. I found that I was thinking in shorthand as I did it more and more, to the point where I had internalized question types and was vastly improved (finishing every section with 5 minutes to spare with few wrong).

Can't guarantee this will help everyone though (I started PT'ing in the 170s).

Yea, I think your just a freak of nature.

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Cavalier
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby Cavalier » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:13 pm

I think it's definitely useful to try and go below 35 minutes. 30 is no easy task - I could only pull it off consistently with the logic games - but even 32 or 33 will make a huge difference. In the event that the section on the actual test is harder than usual, you'll have a little extra time to finish, and if the section is of normal difficulty and you finish early, you'll be able to rest for a couple minutes between sections (which I appreciated more than I anticipated).

nStiver
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby nStiver » Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:23 pm

This gave me a huge advantage on game day. I had no idea that doing 30 min sections had sped my pacing up so much. When I first started doing the 30 minute sections I bombed a few LR 's. However, after a day or two I was shocked at how well I adapted to it. I was wasting a lot of time mentally hemming and hawing over individual questions. Having a 30 minute limit frees you from having to agonize about questions: do it and move on.

One word of caution, when you first start you may miss a bunch of questions. It is vitally important that you review any section that you do with truncated time. You will notice things that you may have missed because you sped over them. After a while though, you learn to read closely while cutting out the extranious mental b.s. that holds you back, like re-reading, etc.

On test day, I finished every section early and had ample time to focus on the tough questions. I had a screaming need to take a piss at the end of section one. Without the extra time, I would have had to sacrafice questions to take a bathroom break. As it turns out, the 3 minute cushion quite literally saved my score on test day.

nStiver
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby nStiver » Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:24 pm

Arbiter213 wrote:(I started PT'ing in the 170s).


Must be nice.

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s0ph1e2007
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby s0ph1e2007 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:31 pm

Depends what you're shooting for. If you're shooting for 160, no, 170, then it's not strictly necessary although helpful, 180, absolutely.
I have never heard of someone who came close to a 180 who didn't have 5 or more minutes left over on each section when they initially completed it.

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Traciela
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby Traciela » Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:20 pm

If you're getting at least 90% correct and the few that you get wrong are due to stupid mistakes, this will be good practice.

If you're getting 3+ wrong, you need to focus more on your accuracy instead of trying 30 minute sections.

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Arbiter213
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby Arbiter213 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:20 pm

nStiver wrote:
Arbiter213 wrote:(I started PT'ing in the 170s).


Must be nice.



Still got nervous and scored a 168 on my first sitting, compelling a retake. But yah, it was nice.

lsatter
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby lsatter » Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:50 am

I found this v useful - PTing with 30 minute sections, I was completing all my LRs in 24-27 mins (usually with a -1/-2). On the day, I finished in 33 mins. Dread to think what might have happened if I'd prepped with 35s.

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Eugenie Danglars
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby Eugenie Danglars » Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:56 am

I found that 30 minute sections were the best way to replicate the test day stress and nerves that plagued my previous LSATs. I felt muuuuch better in October having practiced with 30 and 28 minute sections. And on test day, I didn't finish but one or two minutes early...

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Lwoods
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby Lwoods » Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:29 am

Eugenie Danglars wrote:I found that 30 minute sections were the best way to replicate the test day stress and nerves that plagued my previous LSATs. I felt muuuuch better in October having practiced with 30 and 28 minute sections. And on test day, I didn't finish but one or two minutes early...

Ditto, except replace October with February and 30 with 32. :) My actual score ended up being 2 points higher than my average 32-minute section PT.

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AverageTutoring
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby AverageTutoring » Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:51 am

s0ph1e2007 wrote:Depends what you're shooting for. If you're shooting for 160, no, 170, then it's not strictly necessary although helpful, 180, absolutely.
I have never heard of someone who came close to a 180 who didn't have 5 or more minutes left over on each section when they initially completed it.


My instructor scored a 179 and on RC he re-bubbled one answer as the proctor called time for a perfect RC score. He likes to tell me this all the time LOL oh and apparently he misbubled for the 179...here's what he says on his webpage lol

Known to leap tall structures in single bounds, Yoni is a skilled acrobat with a penchant for the LSAT.

Sort of. He’s not really an acrobat. Nor can he actually leap tall structures in any number of bounds. But, the penchant for the LSAT thing is true. Very true. Yoni has worked with hundreds of students in both large classroom and private tutoring settings. Coming out with plenty of experience and countless positive reviews, Yoni helped us develop the HarvardReady program.

Yoni’s general approach is easygoing and humorous to keep his students engaged, but thorough to ensure they have all they need to excel. He is known for his ability to pick apart the toughest of arguments or passages by relating them to everyday examples.

Yoni maintains that his LSAT score of 179 (99.96%) is the result of a bubbling error on his Scantron. We’ve chosen to reserve our judgment on the matter.

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niederbomb
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby niederbomb » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:17 am

When I first started doing the 30 minute sections I bombed a few LR 's. However, after a day or two I was shocked at how well I adapted to it. I was wasting a lot of time mentally hemming and hawing over individual questions. Having a 30 minute limit frees you from having to agonize about questions: do it and move on.


I just tried a 30-minute LR - and ended up going 25/25, something that only happens about 30% of the time otherwise. I think it improves my accuracy.

I hope so - because I finished both LR sections on test day with at least 5 minutes to spare.

RC would be a bit tougher, however, to do this with. But potentially more valuable as practice for test day.

LG=no way. I have trouble finishing in 35 minutes as it is.

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kkklick
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby kkklick » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:20 am

niederbomb wrote:
When I first started doing the 30 minute sections I bombed a few LR 's. However, after a day or two I was shocked at how well I adapted to it. I was wasting a lot of time mentally hemming and hawing over individual questions. Having a 30 minute limit frees you from having to agonize about questions: do it and move on.


I just tried a 30-minute LR - and ended up going 25/25, something that only happens about 30% of the time otherwise. I think it improves my accuracy.

I hope so - because I finished both LR sections on test day with at least 5 minutes to spare.

RC would be a bit tougher, however, to do this with. But potentially more valuable as practice for test day.

LG=no way. I have trouble finishing in 35 minutes as it is.


The real question is, why are you doing LSAT tests after you already wrote it lol, or are you re-writing in December

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Eugenie Danglars
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby Eugenie Danglars » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:25 am

I was wondering the same thing...

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niederbomb
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Re: 30 Minute Sections?

Postby niederbomb » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:31 am

Because, if I do have to retake, I will already have been studying for three weeks prior to receiving the score and deciding I definitely need to retake.

I only got through 19/22 LG on the real thing, rushed through the Bach passage in 8 minutes, and had erasure problems at the end of one of the LR sections, so it's highly possible I will be rewriting the d*mn*d thing.

In fact, I started over today with the LG's on PT's 1 and 2--and only got through 2.5 games each time.




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