Logic Bible outdated?

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AverageTutoring
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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby AverageTutoring » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:41 pm

I found the LRB to be filled with common sense. I didn't feel that the "strategies" it offered for any particular type of question did me much good, perhaps with the exception of its parallel reasoning strategy. I found the knowledge of my instructor to be infinitely more valuable.

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby LSAT Blog » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:52 pm

AverageTutoring wrote:I found the LRB to be filled with common sense. I didn't feel that the "strategies" it offered for any particular type of question did me much good, perhaps with the exception of its parallel reasoning strategy. I found the knowledge of my instructor to be infinitely more valuable.


It's much better than the retail Kaplan and TPR books (the ones you'll find in stores). However, it still has several problems with regard to how it categorizes and describes the various question-types.

lsatgenius
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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby lsatgenius » Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:06 pm

LGB and LRB are outdated period. They have been updated once in the 10 years or so they have been out.

That said, they are better than 90% of the material out there. Does anyone have experience with Atlas books? The math books in their sister GMAT company are decent, although the verbal books are kind of worthless.

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby Kurst » Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:39 pm

MysticalWheel wrote:I guess someone feels threatened by those that seem to be in a position of mental superiority over him or her, and perhaps rightfully so, no? I mean honestly, those that have a 3.7+ GPA and a 172+ score are more likely to eventually parlay their performance into better pay, higher social status, and, in general, access to more of life's "perks" than those without such badges. And as much as class hierarchy is veiled in the US by the tenets of equality and individual determination, it nevertheless exists and determines, for many if not all people, the quality of their relative existence. Hence, it would seem that the lower levels of society's strata do indeed have much to envy, and perhaps resent, from those that are, more or less, above them. The more that this resentment is expressed, however, the more the insecurity and spite of those in inferior positions is revealed and fueled. Given that the present state of the US consists of circumstances in plain contrast to historically prevalent affairs in pre-revolutionary occasions, thus precluding great likelihood for successful uprising against the establishment, this will likely result in only one thing: the continued and heightened misery of the lower classes, who devote so much useless energy, often incredibly subtle, at consciously or subconsciously attacking a system that rules them and will continue to rule them for some time. The verdict? SHUT UP.
Jeffort wrote:What's with your conclusory and assumption filled social stratification statement/attempt at making an argument regarding socioeconomic classes? Did you recently take a sociology class and have to write a paper about it or something?

Your paragraph is poorly reasoned, in large part because in it you mainly present assertions/conclusions about what you believe is true without providing any decently reasoned justification or support. The thing is loaded with presumptions and is void of evidence to back them up.
MysticalWheel wrote:Your first statement, along with its related followup question, which, by the way, only barely approximate comprehensible sentences, is a speculation that is untrue. As
to your conclusion regarding my paragraph being "poorly reasoned," that is incorrect. To provide absolute evidence for statements that are widely rooted in common sense would not only be entirely unnecessary, especially given the context of this discussion, but also would involve many voluminous citations that are more fitting for a dissertation footnote. And as much as you probably keep telling yourself that calling someone's argument "poorly reasoned" and "loaded with presumptions" actually defeats its force, it's simply a defense mechanism arising out of an insecurity to confront the writing. Sorry :(

Jeffort objects that your argument, insofar as it is devoid of evidence, exhibits poor reasoning. You retort that furnishing evidence is unnecessary, for the evidence that Jeffort is asking for is "widely rooted in common sense." Evidently, everyone who has objected to your argument -- longdaysjourney, kwais, Miznitic, TruHoosier, Gemini Hopeful, Jeffort, and others -- lacks common sense. Let's suspend judgment on your sweeping indictment and instead dive into your argument.

MysticalWheel wrote:those that have a 3.7+ GPA and a 172+ score are more likely to eventually parlay their performance into better pay, higher social status

This is reasonable.

MysticalWheel wrote:as much as class hierarchy is veiled in the US by the tenets of equality and individual determination, it nevertheless exists and determines, for many if not all people, the quality of their relative existence

If a rigid class hierarchy precludes the possibility of social mobility, then social status is fixed at birth. If no member of the lower class can rise into the upper echelons of society, it necessarily follows that no member of the lower class can earn a GPA of 3.7 or an LSAT score of 172, for an individual who has earned these "badges" is, in your own words, "more likely to eventually parlay his performance into better pay and higher social status." If you maintain that no member of the lower class can earn a 3.7 GPA or 172 LSAT score, then your argument retains logical validity. However, if you submit that some members of the lower class can earn the badges requisite to escaping their caste, you undermine your own argument regarding the futility of the lower class's endeavor to reform the system.

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Gemini
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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby Gemini » Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:56 pm

Parlay... bring me to your captain!

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby dovetail » Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:49 pm

bk1 wrote:
dovetail wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:Normal people don't use abnormal vocabulary, no matter how smart they are. There are plenty of HYS attendee's on here who would call MW a douche as well.


Wait, where were the difficult vocabulary words?

Tenet?
Strata?
Hierarchy?

These are the words of a fifth-grade spelling test...


For what it's worth, I thought your diatribe was well-thought out and hilarious, MW.


I'm surprised you know what those words mean when you can't even tell the difference between abnormal and difficult.



Yowza! I stand guilty of conflating your position on this matter with others who took issue with his use of "big" words. Apologies for that.

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby TruHoosier » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:13 pm

MysticalWheel wrote:
bk1 wrote:
kkklick wrote:I never used LGB, and always score -0/-1 on LG. You don't need it. I'm a douche and I'm better than you.


Fixed for what you were actually trying to say.


I guess someone feels threatened by those that seem to be in a position of mental superiority over him or her, and perhaps rightfully so, no? I mean honestly, those that have a 3.7+ GPA and a 172+ score are more likely to eventually parlay their performance into better pay, higher social status, and, in general, access to more of life's "perks" than those without such badges. And as much as class hierarchy is veiled in the US by the tenets of equality and individual determination, it nevertheless exists and determines, for many if not all people, the quality of their relative existence. Hence, it would seem that the lower levels of society's strata do indeed have much to envy, and perhaps resent, from those that are, more or less, above them. The more that this resentment is expressed, however, the more the insecurity and spite of those in inferior positions is revealed and fueled. Given that the present state of the US consists of circumstances in plain contrast to historically prevalent affairs in pre-revolutionary occasions, thus precluding great likelihood for successful uprising against the establishment, this will likely result in only one thing: the continued and heightened misery of the lower classes, who devote so much useless energy, often incredibly subtle, at consciously or subconsciously attacking a system that rules them and will continue to rule them for some time. The verdict? SHUT UP.


It's erudite sociopaths like this guy who do things like take over large investment banking firms and make destructive decisions that cause near-economic meltdown. It's a dangerous combination to have a lack of empathy, high intelligence and a loony personal vendetta like this guy probably has.

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby Gemini » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:29 pm

TruHoosier wrote:
MysticalWheel wrote:
bk1 wrote:
kkklick wrote:I never used LGB, and always score -0/-1 on LG. You don't need it. I'm a douche and I'm better than you.


Fixed for what you were actually trying to say.


I guess someone feels threatened by those that seem to be in a position of mental superiority over him or her, and perhaps rightfully so, no? I mean honestly, those that have a 3.7+ GPA and a 172+ score are more likely to eventually parlay their performance into better pay, higher social status, and, in general, access to more of life's "perks" than those without such badges. And as much as class hierarchy is veiled in the US by the tenets of equality and individual determination, it nevertheless exists and determines, for many if not all people, the quality of their relative existence. Hence, it would seem that the lower levels of society's strata do indeed have much to envy, and perhaps resent, from those that are, more or less, above them. The more that this resentment is expressed, however, the more the insecurity and spite of those in inferior positions is revealed and fueled. Given that the present state of the US consists of circumstances in plain contrast to historically prevalent affairs in pre-revolutionary occasions, thus precluding great likelihood for successful uprising against the establishment, this will likely result in only one thing: the continued and heightened misery of the lower classes, who devote so much useless energy, often incredibly subtle, at consciously or subconsciously attacking a system that rules them and will continue to rule them for some time. The verdict? SHUT UP.


It's erudite sociopaths like this guy who do things like take over large investment banking firms and make destructive decisions that cause near-economic meltdown. It's a dangerous combination to have a lack of empathy, high intelligence and a loony personal vendetta like this guy probably has.


Hi, you are awesome. And I bet you are smarter than the big-word guy up there. Or at the very least, have more common sense. :)

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby TruHoosier » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:45 pm

Gemini Hopeful wrote:
TruHoosier wrote:
Hi, you are awesome. And I bet you are smarter than the big-word guy up there. Or at the very least, have more common sense. :)


I appreciate the compliment, but I didn't really use big words. I wasn't trying to be a my-vocabulary-is-better-than-yours kind of douche.

Just pointing out that this guy is a nut, and intelligent narcissists like him are usually behind corporate scandals and destructive white-collar crime.

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby Patriot1208 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:54 pm

dovetail wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
Gemini Hopeful wrote:Look MW, the reason so many people attacked you is because you sound like an uber-douche. You like to use big words. Not one or two, but your entire paragraph screamed of snobbery. I don't even think it had ANYTHING to do with what was being discussed at the time.

Point is, you can be intelligent without having to show off your uh-MAZ-ing vocabulary skills. Because no one here gives a shit. In fact, it pisses people off.

I'm not trying to be mean. Just trying to explain why some people are annoyed by you.


Normal people don't use abnormal vocabulary, no matter how smart they are. There are plenty of HYS attendee's on here who would call MW a douche as well.


Wait, where were the difficult vocabulary words?

Tenet?
Strata?
Hierarchy?

These are the words of a fifth-grade spelling test...


For what it's worth, I thought your diatribe was well-thought out and hilarious, MW.


So, you purposely confused what I said or you just aren't able to differentiate between common vocabulary? Also, if you thought it was well thought out and hilarious, you are a fucking moron.

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby bk1 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:58 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:So, you purposely confused what I said or you just aren't able to differentiate between common vocabulary? Also, if you thought it was well thought out and hilarious, you are a fucking moron.


To be fair, that poster already admitted his/her mistake:

dovetail wrote:Yowza! I stand guilty of conflating your position on this matter with others who took issue with his use of "big" words. Apologies for that.

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby Patriot1208 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:03 pm

bk1 wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:So, you purposely confused what I said or you just aren't able to differentiate between common vocabulary? Also, if you thought it was well thought out and hilarious, you are a fucking moron.


To be fair, that poster already admitted his/her mistake:

dovetail wrote:Yowza! I stand guilty of conflating your position on this matter with others who took issue with his use of "big" words. Apologies for that.


Missed this, but i'm not sure if this is meant as sarcasm as not. If it is serious, I stand apologetic for that.

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby MysticalWheel » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:03 pm

Gemini Hopeful wrote:Look MW, the reason so many people attacked you is because you sound like an uber-douche. You like to use big words. Not one or two, but your entire paragraph screamed of snobbery. I don't even think it had ANYTHING to do with what was being discussed at the time.

Point is, you can be intelligent without having to show off your uh-MAZ-ing vocabulary skills. Because no one here gives a shit. In fact, it pisses people off.

I'm not trying to be mean. Just trying to explain why some people are annoyed by you.


Wow. Calling people "douches" and criticizing them for using certain vocabulary- that's a real nice M.O. you have there. I had no idea the amount of insecurity that runs through these forums, but with that post, you've confirmed that it's clinical.
Last edited by MysticalWheel on Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby MysticalWheel » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:09 pm

Ragged wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
Gemini Hopeful wrote:Look MW, the reason so many people attacked you is because you sound like an uber-douche. You like to use big words. Not one or two, but your entire paragraph screamed of snobbery. I don't even think it had ANYTHING to do with what was being discussed at the time.

Point is, you can be intelligent without having to show off your uh-MAZ-ing vocabulary skills. Because no one here gives a shit. In fact, it pisses people off.

I'm not trying to be mean. Just trying to explain why some people are annoyed by you.


Normal people don't use abnormal vocabulary, no matter how smart they are. There are plenty of HYS attendee's on here who would call MW a douche as well.


Maybe he was trying to widen his vocab. You know, the best way to learn a word is to use it. How perspicacious of me, don't you think?


Another incorrect speculation- my original post was not by any means expressed in terminology that widely differs from my average diction. It is also not necessary to immediately jump to the presumption of "snobbery" or "pretentiousness" whenever you are threatened by another person's mode of expression.

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby MysticalWheel » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:12 pm

dovetail wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
Gemini Hopeful wrote:Look MW, the reason so many people attacked you is because you sound like an uber-douche. You like to use big words. Not one or two, but your entire paragraph screamed of snobbery. I don't even think it had ANYTHING to do with what was being discussed at the time.

Point is, you can be intelligent without having to show off your uh-MAZ-ing vocabulary skills. Because no one here gives a shit. In fact, it pisses people off.

I'm not trying to be mean. Just trying to explain why some people are annoyed by you.


Normal people don't use abnormal vocabulary, no matter how smart they are. There are plenty of HYS attendee's on here who would call MW a douche as well.


Wait, where were the difficult vocabulary words?

Tenet?
Strata?
Hierarchy?

These are the words of a fifth-grade spelling test...


For what it's worth, I thought your diatribe was well-thought out and hilarious, MW.


Well thanks, I appreciate that, and you're probably right to characterize it as a diatribe, at least in part. I believe most of what I wrote is easily accessible through common sense, and as far as the vocabulary is concerned, I do not understand how they can be considered difficult for most people even half-way through their undergraduate careers.

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby xyzzzzzzzz » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:16 pm

so what is the best way to study for lr?

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby bk1 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:17 pm

Image

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby typ3 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:20 pm

lsatgenius wrote:LGB and LRB are outdated period. They have been updated once in the 10 years or so they have been out.

That said, they are better than 90% of the material out there. Does anyone have experience with Atlas books? The math books in their sister GMAT company are decent, although the verbal books are kind of worthless.



Atlas is good, but it's not as lengthy as PS. Atlas does a lot more application, technique, actual thinking application to test questions. PScore doesn't really do too much except line item suggestions to approaching problems. Atlas will provide you with a gameplan for the problems. I think for the higher test scorer Atlas is superior. For mid range test takers I would recommend PS b/c there isn't a huge introduction into arguments, identifying conclusions, premises, etc. However, when it does delve into the question types it does really well.

I just got my Atlas PR today, I'm about 2/3 done with it and 1/2 done with games and RC, I'll give you a full update this weekend.

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby Skyhook » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:22 pm

I would have to agree that the question styles have changed, the book looks outdated in some areas, and the question type can be a distraction.
But do you need to have everything spoon-fed to you to be able to answer different-looking questions?
I think if you work through the LRB and get to grips with the methods in general it's pretty adaptable.
It's not teaching you the LSAT, just how to think like an LSAT, er...

Just like TLS. It doesn't teach you to be a douche, rather it teaches you how to think and post online like a douche...

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby Patriot1208 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:22 pm

MysticalWheel wrote:
Ragged wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
Gemini Hopeful wrote:Look MW, the reason so many people attacked you is because you sound like an uber-douche. You like to use big words. Not one or two, but your entire paragraph screamed of snobbery. I don't even think it had ANYTHING to do with what was being discussed at the time.

Point is, you can be intelligent without having to show off your uh-MAZ-ing vocabulary skills. Because no one here gives a shit. In fact, it pisses people off.

I'm not trying to be mean. Just trying to explain why some people are annoyed by you.


Normal people don't use abnormal vocabulary, no matter how smart they are. There are plenty of HYS attendee's on here who would call MW a douche as well.


Maybe he was trying to widen his vocab. You know, the best way to learn a word is to use it. How perspicacious of me, don't you think?


Another incorrect speculation- my original post was not by any means expressed in terminology that widely differs from my average diction. It is also not necessary to immediately jump to the presumption of "snobbery" or "pretentiousness" whenever you are threatened by another person's mode of expression.


I wonder if you are purposely missing the point or just aren't as smart as you think you are? The vocabulary isn't tough, it's just that people don't talk that way unless they are trying to be perceived a certain way. You, quite clearly, want to give off this idea that you are more intelligent than others. But talking like that doesn't make people think you are smart, it makes people think you are a fucktard, who isn't smart, but is insecure. And if that is your normal diction, every single person you know fucking hates you.

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby bk1 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:25 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:I wonder if you are purposely missing the point or just aren't as smart as you think you are? The vocabulary isn't tough, it's just that people don't talk that way unless they are trying to be perceived a certain way. You, quite clearly, want to give off this idea that you are more intelligent than others. But talking like that doesn't make people think you are smart, it makes people think you are a fucktard, who isn't smart, but is insecure. And if that is your normal diction, every single person you know fucking hates you.


HAVE YOU NOT GOTTEN IN THE CAR YET?!

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MysticalWheel
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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby MysticalWheel » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:29 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
I wonder if you are purposely missing the point or just aren't as smart as you think you are? The vocabulary isn't tough, it's just that people don't talk that way unless they are trying to be perceived a certain way. You, quite clearly, want to give off this idea that you are more intelligent than others. But talking like that doesn't make people think you are smart, it makes people think you are a fucktard, who isn't smart, but is insecure. And if that is your normal diction, every single person you know fucking hates you.


Let's count the insults, shall we?

1.) Fucktard;
2.) Every single person you know fucking hates you;

What? Only two? I thought I would at least hit 5! You have issues and I would kindly recommend you pursue their resolution before they consume you. My original statements were not intended to be perceived as haughty, and I am not responsible for the psychological deviations of others who seem to invariably see them as such.

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby MysticalWheel » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:32 pm

bk1 wrote:Image


How is it a troll? A troll starts a commotion and flees, with the intent to watch the havoc that follows from a distance. I was sincere in my original statements and am sincere in their defense.

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby MysticalWheel » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:36 pm

Kurst wrote:Jeffort objects that your argument, insofar as it is devoid of evidence, exhibits poor reasoning. You retort that furnishing evidence is unnecessary, for the evidence that Jeffort is asking for is "widely rooted in common sense." Evidently, everyone who has objected to your argument -- longdaysjourney, kwais, Miznitic, TruHoosier, Gemini Hopeful, Jeffort, and others -- lacks common sense. Let's suspend judgment on your sweeping indictment and instead dive into your argument.


My retort is sufficient, given the context and the subject that is under discussion. Additionally, the criticism that has been applied to my original post, that is, the names you so kindly listed, consists mostly of ad hominem remarks that fail to address or expose any weaknesses, much less fatal ones, existing within my argument. Hence, since you recommend we "dive into my argument" at this time, let us do just that. Hopefully your counter, in contrast to the above introduction, will actually have some substantive worth beyond an intellectually veiled, though still in poor taste, ad hominem.

Kurst wrote:If a rigid class hierarchy precludes the possibility of social mobility, then social status is fixed at birth. If no member of the lower class can rise into the upper echelons of society, it necessarily follows that no member of the lower class can earn a GPA of 3.7 or an LSAT score of 172, for an individual who has earned these "badges" is, in your own words, "more likely to eventually parlay his performance into better pay and higher social status." If you maintain that no member of the lower class can earn a 3.7 GPA or 172 LSAT score, then your argument retains logical validity. However, if you submit that some members of the lower class can earn the badges requisite to escaping their caste, you undermine your own argument regarding the futility of the lower class's endeavor to reform the system.


You either completely misinterpret the meaning or willfully ignore the plain writing of my original statements. Show me where I have stated that the possibility for social mobility is precluded? If you are deriving this from my statement that a subtle class hierarchy in the United States determines for many, if not all people, the quality of their relative existence, then you have made a fatally incorrect inference. Merely because something determines something else, to a large extent, does not signify that a possibility in the contrast has been precluded. For example, realization of the determinant and the resultant can enable conscious resistance and open the door to constructing a new end point. Your argument fails. I appreciate the effort, however, since it is the closest rejoinder yet to my original statements to be classified as valid.

MW
Last edited by MysticalWheel on Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Logic Bible outdated?

Postby bk1 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:38 pm

MysticalWheel wrote:How is it a troll? A troll starts a commotion and flees, with the intent to watch the havoc that follows from a distance. I was sincere in my original statements and am sincere in their defense.


Spoken like a true troll.




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