Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

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niederbomb
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Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

Postby niederbomb » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:28 am

So, I've slept on this (or tried to) and turned it over in my mind, and I'm not sure what I should do.

I didn't finish the LG section; I "educated" guessed on one and blind guessed on the last three. I've always had time issues on LG (on my cold diagnostic, I only got 7 right), but I had been finishing the section in the two weeks leading up to the test and am confident that, with more practice, I could improve more.

Also, I didn't get to bubble in the last answer on RC, as it was the last section, and they collected the answer sheets immediately.

On LR, I rushed through the last five questions, had extra time and went back and changed 2 answers on questions I had clearly misread, but I had some erasure problems, ended up with some smearing, erased more, erased some questions I didn't mean to, then had to fill them back in--all in during the last 10 seconds. The possibilities for transcription, as well as machine, error are endless.

I usually go -3 LG when I finish the section, -2 50's RC on a good day, and average -1.5 wrong LR per section. That gives me -7 and a 173-6 when nothing goes wrong. This happened on PT 48, 52, 53, and 56.

So if I add up the 6 I know I probably missed to the 7 I usually miss but don't realize, that gives me -13 on what (for me) was probably a -10 test, or 166.

Virginia (median 169) and University of Toronto (median 168) are about as low as I'd be willing to go; I have a 3.92 LSAC GPA and work experience, and my ideal schools are Columbia, Penn, Stanford, and NYU.

I'm all for seeing what I get, doing all 64 X 4 logic games, and retaking in December or February (maybe for next cycle), but what does the TLS community recommend?
Last edited by niederbomb on Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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rso11
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Re: Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

Postby rso11 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:32 am

Why are you assuming you'll get a 174?

I've heard cancels don't hurt you much; if you kept your score and had a gap that big you'd need an addendum though, and you probably need a better explanation than "I was nervous and had eraser problems." lol

tazmolover
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Re: Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

Postby tazmolover » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:33 am

Cancel+174 is better but if you cancel and somehow bomb your next test...cancel+cancel will look bad I hear.

I don't think a 165+174 is much worse than a cancel+174. Not enough to affect your cycle if you are at/above both medians I would assume but wtf do I know

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niederbomb
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Re: Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

Postby niederbomb » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:35 am

Why are you assuming you'll get a 174?


Because on every PT where I finish the LG section, that is the score I got, + or -1. So, if on the next test, I finish the LG section, I'm likely to get that score.

LR and RC are very stable for me, whether it's PT 1 or 60, so I don't see them budging much.


I've heard cancels don't hurt you much; if you kept your score and had a gap that big you'd need an addendum though, and you probably need a better explanation than "I was nervous and had eraser problems." lol


How about "I was jetlagged"?

100% true.
Last edited by niederbomb on Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

tazmolover
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Re: Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

Postby tazmolover » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:37 am

niederbomb wrote:
Why are you assuming you'll get a 174?


Because on every PT where I finish the LG section, that is the score I got, + or -1. So, if on the next test, I finish the LG section, I'm likely to get that score.

LR and RC are very stable for me, whether it's PT 1 or 60, so I don't see them budging much.


That's a very big "if".

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niederbomb
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Re: Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

Postby niederbomb » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:39 am

LG is the easiest section to improve on, and even people with LSAT scores in the 150's usually get LG eventually, even if they don't get the other sections.

tazmolover
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Re: Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

Postby tazmolover » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:41 am

niederbomb wrote:LG is the easiest section to improve on, and even people with LSAT scores in the 150's usually get LG eventually, even if they don't get the other sections.


Yes in general, but on the real thing you mess up one thing and the entire LG section = bombed.

You should know this from enough practice. As easy it is to ace the LG it's easier to mess up a LG section than any other.

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niederbomb
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Re: Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

Postby niederbomb » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:43 am

Yes in general, but on the real thing you mess up one thing and the entire LG section = bombed.

You should know this from enough practice. As easy it is to ace the LG it's easier to mess up a LG section than any other.


That's never happened to me, except on 1 or 2 questions at most - only thing that kills me is time.

justadude55
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Re: Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

Postby justadude55 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:48 am

cancel.

unless you feel like you nailed the other games.

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Remnantofisrael
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Re: Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

Postby Remnantofisrael » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:00 am

My kid bro got a 163 and then a 171 with a much lower GPA than you and ended up at Michigan with acceptance to Penn, Duke, etc. and WL at NYU, Columbia.

Just have to explain why.

ALSO, in june I took the test, screwed up LG bubbling on the last game, ended up missing 4 questions over a skipped bubble. I knew it had happened, and it was on the first section, so I was basically a zombie for the next 3 hours. I wanted to cancel, because my normal 175-179 range would be tanked over the carelessness I had for the rest of the test combined with bombing LG.

My kid brother talked me out of it (same one at Michigan) and I ended up with a 170.

Moral of the story is if a 165+174 is even CLOSE to a cancel + that hypothetical 174, don't cancel. Because that 165 could be a 170.

Remember, the test AS A WHOLE is what is important. The fact that you missed so many for time suggests that perhaps that the questions weren't particularly hard, just more time consuming, which could mean they were actually easier and therefore you got more of the ones you answered correct.

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niederbomb
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Re: Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

Postby niederbomb » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:06 pm

One thing I forgot to add: I already have an "absent" from June. It was due to an airport closure in China. It made the US media, and I still have the ticket stub somewhere, which I can upload, so I think THAT addendum will be no problem.

However, how does it look to have 1 cancel + 1 absent + a higher score?

Or 1 absent + 1 lower score + a higher score--for that matter?

Also, would HYS and CN, the ones who average LSAT scores, consider a 169 + a 175 as equivalent to someone who took it once and scored 172?

Or do they somehow look even more down on people who took the LSAT more than once?

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ThreeYears
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Re: Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

Postby ThreeYears » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:13 pm

tazmolover wrote:
niederbomb wrote:LG is the easiest section to improve on, and even people with LSAT scores in the 150's usually get LG eventually, even if they don't get the other sections.


Yes in general, but on the real thing you mess up one thing and the entire LG section = bombed.

You should know this from enough practice. As easy it is to ace the LG it's easier to mess up a LG section than any other.


I have to agree with this.

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AverageTutoring
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Re: Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

Postby AverageTutoring » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:20 pm

niederbomb wrote:So, I've slept on this (or tried to) and turned it over in my mind, and I'm not sure what I should do.

I didn't finish the LG section; I "educated" guessed on one and blind guessed on the last three. I've always had time issues on LG (on my cold diagnostic, I only got 7 right), but I had been finishing the section in the two weeks leading up to the test and am confident that, with more practice, I could improve more.

Also, I didn't get to bubble in the last answer on RC, as it was the last section, and they collected the answer sheets immediately.

On LR, I rushed through the last five questions, had extra time and went back and changed 2 answers on questions I had clearly misread, but I had some erasure problems, ended up with some smearing, erased more, erased some questions I didn't mean to, then had to fill them back in--all in during the last 10 seconds. The possibilities for transcription, as well as machine, error are endless.

I usually go -3 LG when I finish the section, -2 50's RC on a good day, and average -1.5 wrong LR per section. That gives me -7 and a 173-6 when nothing goes wrong. This happened on PT 48, 52, 53, and 56.

So if I add up the 6 I know I probably missed to the 7 I usually miss but don't realize, that gives me -13 on what (for me) was probably a -10 test, or 166.

Virginia (median 169) and University of Toronto (median 168) are about as low as I'd be willing to go; I have a 3.92 LSAC GPA and work experience, and my ideal schools are Columbia, Penn, Stanford, and NYU.

I'm all for seeing what I get, doing all 64 X 4 logic games, and retaking in December or February (maybe for next cycle), but what does the TLS community recommend?


Dude, if you are Canadian you need to display it proudly in your display picture.

jarofsoup
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Re: Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

Postby jarofsoup » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:26 pm

If you do not have a reported score I would take 165. It will allow you to shoot out some applications to some safety schools early in the cycle and once you get a higher score(if you do) you have the freedom to reach into the T14.

165 is not a bad score. It is not a 174, but it will get you into a T14-T50. If you have a good GPA.

That's my two cents.

I would keep it.

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plenipotentiary
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Re: Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

Postby plenipotentiary » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:30 pm

If you already have an absence, don't cancel barring a complete disaster (because then you'll have used both of your Get Out Of Jail Free cards, and you might have an disaster next time).

Chill out. Your mental calculations about your score are probably wrong. You sound pretty pessimistic (you're rocking a 3.9 and PTing in the mid-170's with work experience and you haven't mentioned Harvard). That's okay. I'm pessimistic, too. I thought I had gotten a 160. I messed up an entire logic game, had some misbubbling/erasure issues, was nervous as hell -- and ended up with a 172. So glad someone talked me out of canceling.

166 sounds like your worst case scenario, but if you guessed right a couple of times and the curve is -12 instead of -10, you could end up with a 170. If you want to retake a 170, whatever, but it's certainly not a score that needs to be cancelled.

Even if you do score in the mid-high 160's, I think that coupled with your rockin' GPA should get you into some T14 schools. Virginia's LSAT median is actually 170, but you're at their 75% for GPA.

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niederbomb
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Re: Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

Postby niederbomb » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:55 pm

Dude, if you are Canadian you need to display it proudly in your display picture.


My Dad's family is from Toronto, but I'm not...yet. Only reason I'm considering them is if I end up being a reverse-splitter, Canadian schools are a better bet. Also, they're a helluva lot cheaper. 8)

coffeetable
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Re: Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

Postby coffeetable » Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:01 pm

As a person who has a cancellation already on the record,

DO NOT CANCEL unless you are sure that you can score high enough next time. I think one cancellation is fine as long as you mange to finish LSAT next time. something like cancel - 174

HOWEVER, if you are not sure about that just dont cancel. i think its better to have 165-cancel-174 than cancel-cancel-174 if anything happens next time.

Also, since you are not aiming for HYS where multiple scores are huge disadvantage, I think you should not cancel your score, esp. b/c you have some chance of getting pretty good score ...

So just get your score!

notanumber
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Re: Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

Postby notanumber » Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:05 pm

Don't cancel. The miniscule difference in the way that an admissions committee will treat a 165/cancel is not worth the very real chance that you scored closer to your PT average than you think. If you get a score you're fine with this round, you'll save yourself days of otherwise wasted time.

I thought I bombed my LSAT and ended up with a score directly on-par with my practice tests.

justadude55
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Re: Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

Postby justadude55 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:20 pm

jarofsoup wrote:If you do not have a reported score I would take 165. It will allow you to shoot out some applications to some safety schools early in the cycle and once you get a higher score(if you do) you have the freedom to reach into the T14.

165 is not a bad score. It is not a 174, but it will get you into a T14-T50. If you have a good GPA.

That's my two cents.

I would keep it.


165 won't get you into Texas, USC, UCLA unless you're URM and is boarderline at Fordham.

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niederbomb
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Re: Cancel + 174 or 165 + 174

Postby niederbomb » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:09 pm

165 won't get you into Texas, USC, UCLA unless you're URM and is boarderline at Fordham.


With 168, ED at Virginia is possible. UVA isn't known for their AA like some other schools are anyway.

That's why I have decided not to cancel.




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