Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

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DoctorLaw
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Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

Postby DoctorLaw » Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:40 pm

Need some tips how to tackle the reading comprehension section... any good books.. i am about order the RCB.. I took testmasters to prepare for the Oct LSAT but the RC timing kills me :(

NJcollegestudent
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Re: Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

Postby NJcollegestudent » Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:50 pm

I do not know about books, however, reading complex articles and thought provoking ones are usually good.

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longdaysjourney
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Re: Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

Postby longdaysjourney » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:09 pm

DoctorLaw wrote:Need some tips how to tackle the reading comprehension section... any good books.. i am about order the RCB.. I took testmasters to prepare for the Oct LSAT but the RC timing kills me :(


I've heard lots of people say that you can't improve RC, but that is bogus. I also hear, "read the economist" too...but I wouldn't waste your time. Reading a "difficult" magazine would probably help, but only if you did it for a few years. I ordered the RC bible and it sucks, don't use it. I think Voyager's RC strategy is also weak...it's not really a strategy at all. Atlas has a RC book that is really short, but really good. It actually has an insightful, unique strategy for approaching the section that I found to be helpful. The book price is a little on the steep side, but I think it's worth its weight in gold....well, probably not, actually...I'd rather have the gold. But it's definitely worth it.

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Deep Trench
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Re: Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

Postby Deep Trench » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:46 am

It helps to redo the RC sections that you did a while back. You start to learn what to look for in the passages, which answer choices to eliminate, and where to find the correct answers.

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dextermorgan
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Re: Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

Postby dextermorgan » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:12 am

Taking PT's is the best way to increase your RC score. It lets you get used to the questions and familiarizes you with the type of reading you will see. Work on increasing your reading speed if you read slowly too.

tazmolover
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Re: Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

Postby tazmolover » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:13 am

longdaysjourney wrote:
DoctorLaw wrote:Need some tips how to tackle the reading comprehension section... any good books.. i am about order the RCB.. I took testmasters to prepare for the Oct LSAT but the RC timing kills me :(


I've heard lots of people say that you can't improve RC, but that is bogus. I also hear, "read the economist" too...but I wouldn't waste your time. Reading a "difficult" magazine would probably help, but only if you did it for a few years. I ordered the RC bible and it sucks, don't use it. I think Voyager's RC strategy is also weak...it's not really a strategy at all. Atlas has a RC book that is really short, but really good. It actually has an insightful, unique strategy for approaching the section that I found to be helpful. The book price is a little on the steep side, but I think it's worth its weight in gold....well, probably not, actually...I'd rather have the gold. But it's definitely worth it.


You just said not being able to improve rc is bogus. But you just shot down almost every strat for improving rc?

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jr1886
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Re: Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

Postby jr1886 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:54 am

OK with a caveat that I don't have my LSAT score yet but I think I did pretty well in RC. Here' s what I found to be helpful.

1)Read for structure as you read each passage and do minimal marking. During the LSAT two days ago, I only mark the main point of the passage and box names so I could refer to them quickly if a question was ask about it as in the case of the forgery passage and there were a lot of questions about the view of....in that passage. I also underlie minimally, usually only when I find something I think very important or a word that indicates the author's tone such as superb, beautifully, cursory and you'll get yourself a free point when LSAC ask you a question about the author's attitude toward such and such group.The biggest advantage of reading for structure and do minimal marking is that you basically can answer all the global questions without much referring to the test(be careful though) and you are able to read the passage relatively quickly.

2) know all the types of questions LSAC usually asked for RC and commit them to memory. I have a folder here that was given to me and it was very helpful. If you want it, PM me your email and I'll send it to you.

3) Make sure you can understand and answer the questions for the following passages: Meteor Impact(PT15), Riddled Basins(PT50), Strawberry field(PT53), Group think(PT54), Kinship(56),Fractals(PT57), Willa Cather(PT57), Noguchi(PT59)

4) Last but not least, buy or rent from your library Rene Descartes Discourse on Method Meditations on First Philosophy(link: http://www.amazon.com/Discourse-Method- ... 806&sr=8-3 ) and try practicing reading for structure while reading it and see how much you understand and remember.

Good luck!!!

Edit: to fix link

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jr1886
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Re: Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

Postby jr1886 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:00 am

And yes one can improve on RC. I miss -11 December 2009 thanks mainly to Noguchi but this time around I don't expect to miss more than 3

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jr1886
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Re: Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

Postby jr1886 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:05 am

DoctorLaw wrote:Need some tips how to tackle the reading comprehension section... any good books.. i am about order the RCB.. I took testmasters to prepare for the Oct LSAT but the RC timing kills me :(


Do not buy the RC Bible. It's not good at all, you would be much better taking PTs. If you really think it's necessary to get it, I have one sitting here and I'll send it to you for half the price lol

filmorejive
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Re: Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

Postby filmorejive » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:12 am

Take PTs and try somehow to be interested in the subject matter, just convince yourself you care about it. One thing that helped me was underlining information and doing the whole roadmap thing. I didn't really roadmap effectively, but in the process of making the roadmap I was more engaged with the material and could better get through the passage.

Also try to read some stuff on subjects you could absolutely not care any less about and try to get yourself engaged in it. The best thing is PTs though, obviously.

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niederbomb
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Re: Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

Postby niederbomb » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:06 am

Atlas has a RC book that is really short, but really good. It actually has an insightful, unique strategy for approaching the section that I found to be helpful. The book price is a little on the steep side, but I think it's worth its weight in gold....well, probably not, actually...I'd rather have the gold. But it's definitely worth it.


What about MCAT tests? I've heard their RC is a little more difficult than the LSAT, plus it's a whole new pool of passages to work with.

In the late 50's PT's I usually missed 2-3 on RC and thought that was good compared to when I first started the new RC.

If I retake, I want to find a way to go back to -0 like I did consistently in the 30's and 40's.

I need an advanced method to go the extra mile; anything too basic won't help. How is the Atlas RC book for something like that?
Last edited by niederbomb on Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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longdaysjourney
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Re: Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

Postby longdaysjourney » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:07 am

tazmolover wrote:You just said not being able to improve rc is bogus. But you just shot down almost every strat for improving rc?

Did you even read my post? I believe that I said:
longdaysjourney wrote:Atlas has a RC book that is really short, but really good. It actually has an insightful, unique strategy for approaching the section that I found to be helpful. The book price is a little on the steep side, but I think it's worth its weight in gold....well, probably not, actually...I'd rather have the gold. But it's definitely worth it.

Additionally, I think that advice like this--while well intentioned--is misguided:
jr1886 wrote:4) Last but not least, buy or rent from your library Rene Descartes Discourse on Method Meditations on First Philosophy(link: http://www.amazon.com/Discourse-Method- ... 806&sr=8-3 ) and try practicing reading for structure while reading it and see how much you understand and remember.

I don't think that you should spend study time with non-lsac/non-test-prep-company materials such as difficult philosophical texts, The Economist, or the like. I think replacing television time w/ Descartes or the Economist would be a good idea...but I don't think that you should count 3 hours of reading apologies for the existence of an immortal soul as 3 hours of study. Also, there are novels that--in addition to being difficult and enriching reads--are enjoyable, entertained, and relaxing. I think that The Magus (Fowles), Ulysses, Pynchon's big books (Gravity's Rainbow/Mason and Dixon/Against the Day), Berryman's Dream Songs, or the Alexandria Quartet would all be lsat-worthy free-time activities that are just as beneficial for RC purposes as The Economist.

And just to expand a little on why voyager and the rc bible are misguided...their strategy almost completely consists of telling you what symbols to use when you mark up your passage. If you actually spent as much time marking as powerscore says you should, then the section would end when you were on your third passage...voyager is a little better, but not much.

If you are having trouble with comparative passages you should try this, it worked for me:
longdaysjourney wrote:Ok...so I started doing this with the comparative passages on my PTs and I think it really works. I get the whole done in under 5 min...-0 always...piece of cake.

I did it on the test today and I think it really helped.

Step 1). Scan questions stems to see if there are more "...author of passage B..." or "...author of passage A..." questions
Step 2) Read the section first that has the most questions associated with it
Step 3) Answer all the questions that solely relate to the passages you have just read
Step 4) Eliminate obviously wrong answers from questions like: "the authors both think", "both authors are most likely to agree", "the way that the passages relate is..." etc. I have found that on 1/3 to 2/3 of these questions you can get them right after reading just 1 of the 2 comparative passages.
Step 5) Blow through the second at top speed....you already know the questions you will be asked. You should be able to read it in 1 min. and answer the rest on the questions in another min.
Step 6) Do the c-walk

Does anybody else do this. It makes the comparative passages so easy 4-5 min on the most difficult comparative passages.
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/posting.php?mode=quote&f=6&p=3499045
Last edited by longdaysjourney on Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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niederbomb
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Re: Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

Postby niederbomb » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:10 am

tazmolover wrote:
You just said not being able to improve rc is bogus. But you just shot down almost every strat for improving rc?


Did you even read my post? I believe that I said:

longdaysjourney wrote:
Atlas has a RC book that is really short, but really good. It actually has an insightful, unique strategy for approaching the section that I found to be helpful. The book price is a little on the steep side, but I think it's worth its weight in gold....well, probably not, actually...I'd rather have the gold. But it's definitely worth it.


Someone missed a key word and fell for a trap answer. :wink:

jarofsoup
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Re: Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

Postby jarofsoup » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:25 am

I think 25% of the time improving RC= finding the right speed. A lot of RC is getting the gist of the passage not every word.

Dont focus on the content as much as the context and how the author uses it.

For example:

Are there critics, does the other agree with this information.

In a lot of RC the author will present three facts regarding a topic dismiss two and pick one. If you can see this kind of basic structure you are golden.

or

Here is an innovative new idea that I like so much better than the traditional way. Yet there are still a few suggestions I have.

or

Critics, then critics of critics, then authors criticizes the critics.

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longdaysjourney
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Re: Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

Postby longdaysjourney » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:45 am

niederbomb wrote:
tazmolover wrote:
You just said not being able to improve rc is bogus. But you just shot down almostevery strat for improving rc?


Did you even read my post? I believe that I said:

longdaysjourney wrote:
Atlas has a RC book that is really short, but really good. It actually has an insightful, unique strategy for approaching the section that I found to be helpful. The book price is a little on the steep side, but I think it's worth its weight in gold....well, probably not, actually...I'd rather have the gold. But it's definitely worth it.


Someone missed a key word and fell for a trap answer. :wink:


I know what he wrote, lol. I just figured he was not being precise, because if he was being so...then what the hell is his criticism? "You just said not being able to improve rc is bogus. But then you shot down a bunch of crappy strategies and then supported the way that you think is best?" Maybe I'm just making excuses for people...i don't know.

But anyways:

niederbomb wrote:What about MCAT tests? I've heard their RC is a little more difficult than the LSAT, plus it's a whole new pool of passages to work with.

In the late 50's PT's I usually missed 2-3 on RC and thought that was good compared to when I first started the new RC.

If I retake, I want to find a way to go back to -0 like I did consistently in the 30's and 40's.

I need an advanced method to go the extra mile; anything too basic won't help. How is the Atlas RC book for something like that?


I read an MCAT passage or two and I think that they are pretty tough, but I also think that that approach is misguided. Some prep companies write super-hard logic games, saying something to the effect of, "If you can do this super-hard game, then surely you will be able to do the lsac games, which are easier." But then you are spending precious prep time focusing on things that won't be directly tested, in the hope that it will have some tangential effect on your overall ability. I liken it to this: http://coachsci.sdsu.edu/csa/vol122/reyes.htm.

The powerscore bibles are like earning a B.A. in LSAT Studies; Atlas is like A PhD in advanced nuclear LSAT astrophysics. Atlas took me from the 165 range to the 175 range. Of course there are some "basics" in atlas because it's designed to be comprehensive, just as powerscore is, however, I think that powerscore targets a larger swath of scorers than atlas does.

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AreJay711
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Re: Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:52 am

I thought RC bible was good if just for what to look for in the sections. It really helped me but I was already doing pretty good and I don't know how it compares to other prep books.

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jr1886
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Re: Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

Postby jr1886 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:56 am

longdaysjourney wrote:
tazmolover wrote:You just said not being able to improve rc is bogus. But you just shot down almost every strat for improving rc?

Did you even read my post? I believe that I said:
longdaysjourney wrote:Atlas has a RC book that is really short, but really good. It actually has an insightful, unique strategy for approaching the section that I found to be helpful. The book price is a little on the steep side, but I think it's worth its weight in gold....well, probably not, actually...I'd rather have the gold. But it's definitely worth it.

Additionally, I think that advice like this--while well intentioned--is misguided:
jr1886 wrote:4) Last but not least, buy or rent from your library Rene Descartes Discourse on Method Meditations on First Philosophy(link: http://www.amazon.com/Discourse-Method- ... 806&sr=8-3 ) and try practicing reading for structure while reading it and see how much you understand and remember.

I don't think that you should spend study time with non-lsac/non-test-prep-company materials such as difficult philosophical texts, The Economist, or the like. I think replacing television time w/ Descartes or the Economist would be a good idea...but I don't think that you should count 3 hours of reading apologies for the existence of an immortal soul as 3 hours of study. Also, there are novels that--in addition to being difficult and enriching reads--are enjoyable, entertained, and relaxing. I think that The Magus (Fowles), Ulysses, Pynchon's big books (Gravity's Rainbow/Mason and Dixon/Against the Day), Berryman's Dream Songs, or the Alexandria Quartet would all be lsat-worthy free-time activities that are just as beneficial for RC purposes as The Economist.

And just to expand a little on why voyager and the rc bible are misguided...their strategy almost completely consists of telling you what symbols to use when you mark up your passage. If you actually spent as much time marking as powerscore says you should, then the section would end when you were on your third passage...voyager is a little better, but not much.

If you are having trouble with comparative passages you should try this, it worked for me:
longdaysjourney wrote:Ok...so I started doing this with the comparative passages on my PTs and I think it really works. I get the whole done in under 5 min...-0 always...piece of cake.

I did it on the test today and I think it really helped.

Step 1). Scan questions stems to see if there are more "...author of passage B..." or "...author of passage A..." questions
Step 2) Read the section first that has the most questions associated with it
Step 3) Answer all the questions that solely relate to the passages you have just read
Step 4) Eliminate obviously wrong answers from questions like: "the authors both think", "both authors are most likely to agree", "the way that the passages relate is..." etc. I have found that on 1/3 to 2/3 of these questions you can get them right after reading just 1 of the 2 comparative passages.
Step 5) Blow through the second at top speed....you already know the questions you will be asked. You should be able to read it in 1 min. and answer the rest on the questions in another min.
Step 6) Do the c-walk

Does anybody else do this. It makes the comparative passages so easy 4-5 min on the most difficult comparative passages.
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/posting.php?mode=quote&f=6&p=3499045


I wasn't saying he needs to buy the book to study. In case I wasn't clear enough, I mean't to suggest this is tough book to read and just before going to sleep he can try reading it for structure as a sort of practice. This book was dense but I was able to get the gist of it by reading for structure instead of focusing on each and every detail. I think it helps, how much? IDK

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longdaysjourney
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Re: Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

Postby longdaysjourney » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:07 am

jr1886 wrote:I wasn't saying he needs to buy the book to study. In case I wasn't clear enough, I mean't to suggest this is tough book to read and just before going to sleep he can try reading it for structure as a sort of practice. This book was dense but I was able to get the gist of it by reading for structure instead of focusing on each and every detail. I think it helps, how much? IDK


Yes, I totally agree with that.

etown989
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Re: Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

Postby etown989 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:10 am

i found using the highlighter instead of circling/underlining everything actually made the important stuff easier to find... maybe try this out

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DoctorLaw
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Re: Good tips/Books to study for RC, oct RC section was brutal

Postby DoctorLaw » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:24 pm

After looking at my OCT LSAT and doing horrible compared to my PT.... I am going to restart everything on my own, burying my testmasters book and starting with RC and LR Bibles....

wish me luck




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