Overheard at the LSAT

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TheMostDangerousLG
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby TheMostDangerousLG » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:47 pm

patfeeney wrote:Not at the actual LSAT, but I took a Kaplan-proctored PT at my school at the end of January. At the end of the test, a senior who was preparing for the Feb. test and I started talking and exchanging scores. The senior had a 162, and I had a 160. We started talking about our study habits and what we did to prepare.

This kid had taken two full-length Kaplan courses at over $2000. The second one was a retake of the first - apparently you get a refund/retake the course if you're dissatisfied. He said he failed to increase his score more than four points over the two courses.

I overheard him talking to the proctor, a Kaplan instructor, after the test. He told her that he didn't study outside of the classes and he thought the classes should have adequately prepared him for the exam.
--
Another person at my school who was preparing for a retake told me they didn't buy any preptests. They instead used Kaplan's free online tests. Their words exactly were, "The free tests are so awesome because then you can pause them and take breaks and finish them later. I started one yesterday and I'm going to go to work and finish it later." They were PT'ing at the time around the mid-140s.


Just a side note - not blasting Kaplan at all. Their people are nice and resourceful, and their free events are a real help. Unfortunately, they are also the only test prep company in my area and therefore will necessarily be somehow involved in many peoples' negative test-prep situations.


It's weird how both people I've talked to who took Kaplan courses had never heard of the term "preptest" or "practice test". After I explained, both said they had taken maybe four, total. Yikes.

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txdude45
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby txdude45 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:19 pm

TheMostDangerousLG wrote:
It's weird how both people I've talked to who took Kaplan courses had never heard of the term "preptest" or "practice test". After I explained, both said they had taken maybe four, total. Yikes.


The Kaplan program, which I used b/c I was a noob and only started studying a month out, only has you take 4-5 exams including the pre-test. I took about 10 outside of that, but the amount you're required to take is shite.

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patfeeney
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby patfeeney » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:02 pm

txdude45 wrote:
TheMostDangerousLG wrote:
It's weird how both people I've talked to who took Kaplan courses had never heard of the term "preptest" or "practice test". After I explained, both said they had taken maybe four, total. Yikes.


The Kaplan program, which I used b/c I was a noob and only started studying a month out, only has you take 4-5 exams including the pre-test. I took about 10 outside of that, but the amount you're required to take is shite.


They don't require a lot, but don't they push students to do a lot on their own? The classroom is a meeting place, but outside is where the real work should be done. I only have about 3 hours of instruction for a single class in a week, but I might spend 12-13 hours outside that class every week working on class-related material. If a student pays the money (so much money) and doesn't go in with that attitude, I don't feel sorry for them for doing so poorly.

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TheMostDangerousLG
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby TheMostDangerousLG » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:20 pm

patfeeney wrote:
txdude45 wrote:
TheMostDangerousLG wrote:
It's weird how both people I've talked to who took Kaplan courses had never heard of the term "preptest" or "practice test". After I explained, both said they had taken maybe four, total. Yikes.


The Kaplan program, which I used b/c I was a noob and only started studying a month out, only has you take 4-5 exams including the pre-test. I took about 10 outside of that, but the amount you're required to take is shite.


They don't require a lot, but don't they push students to do a lot on their own? The classroom is a meeting place, but outside is where the real work should be done. I only have about 3 hours of instruction for a single class in a week, but I might spend 12-13 hours outside that class every week working on class-related material. If a student pays the money (so much money) and doesn't go in with that attitude, I don't feel sorry for them for doing so poorly.


Bro, stop trying to make Kaplan happen. It's not going to happen.

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06102016
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby 06102016 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:21 pm

..

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patfeeney
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby patfeeney » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:39 pm

slack_academic wrote:In case anyone's lurking here and thinking of taking a Kaplan course, don't do it.
TheMostDangerousLG wrote:Bro, stop trying to make Kaplan happen. It's not going to happen.


A disclaimer: I have never taken a Kaplan course, I've only done self-study, and I believe self-study is the only real way to go to get above a 165 on the test.

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Clyde Frog
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby Clyde Frog » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:16 pm

Kaplan is the best $2,000 you'll ever spend.

-No one ever

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Micdiddy
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby Micdiddy » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:12 am

patfeeney wrote:
slack_academic wrote:In case anyone's lurking here and thinking of taking a Kaplan course, don't do it.
TheMostDangerousLG wrote:Bro, stop trying to make Kaplan happen. It's not going to happen.


A disclaimer: I have never taken a Kaplan course, I've only done self-study, and I believe self-study is the only real way to go to get above a 165 on the test.


Though I'm a big proponent of self-study (and did it myself) this is blatantly false. Unless of course you mean self study in a very general sense, like take a class AND self study. But I have definitely personally helped people below 165 score higher than 165 and know many other tutors/teachers who have done the same.

And Kaplan really really sucks you guys.

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patfeeney
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby patfeeney » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:30 am

Micdiddy wrote:
Though I'm a big proponent of self-study (and did it myself) this is blatantly false. Unless of course you mean self study in a very general sense, like take a class AND self study. But I have definitely personally helped people below 165 score higher than 165 and know many other tutors/teachers who have done the same.

And Kaplan really really sucks you guys.


Of course, coupling self-study with any other supplemental material will definitely show progress.

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Word1
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby Word1 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:31 pm

hoos89 wrote:did she mean she was a URM because she was a girl or because she was a URM?


URM and a girl.

laww
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby laww » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:38 am

Wow when I take the LSAT in October I'm going to trole so hard as I leave the exam room.

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Nova
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby Nova » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:40 am

laww wrote:Wow when I take the LSAT in October I'm going to trole so hard as I leave the exam room.

bring back some lulz, please

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Iroh
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby Iroh » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:57 am

Meant to post this after the June administration but was too distraught to do so. Anyway.

Everyone at the testing center is grouped into one large room before we're filed off into our separate testing classrooms. The guy I'm sitting next to has one of those weird faces which makes him look like he's anywhere from his late twenties to early forties. We start making chitchat, and he tells me that he's shooting for a really high score, because he has a REALLY bad GPA. I think, ok, at least he's aware that the LSAT matters and it needs to offset his GPA. Maybe he'll be one of those crazy super splitters. That's when things turn south.

Me: So what score are you looking for?
Him: As high as I can get.
Me: (Well, obviously) So are you looking for a perfect score?
Him: I mean, yeah, if I get a perfect score that'll be great.
Me: Yeah.

Turns out this guy actually had no idea what a perfect score was, or what any of the scaled scores meant. He also told me that he thought the LSAT would be just like what he had seen in "the book" but with a few more questions (not sure what that meant) and that there was a break after every section (I informed him this was not the case, and he seemed unfazed). He then reiterates to me his need to get a really high LSAT score to offset that awful GPA of his.

Me: So where are you looking to go to law school?
Him: Here!

"Here" is a local unranked law school that is not accredited by the ABA. In addition to his strenuous preparation for the LSAT, he told me he also decided not to watch any more lawyer shows or movies until after he graduated from law school, so that he wouldn't get a skewed perspective of the career. Such a weird, weird dude. He was nice, though.

Oh, and everyone in my testing room looked absolutely downtrodden after the test. No tears, although one guy was obviously pissed and remarked, "Well that was a fucking waste of an afternoon."

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wvu
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby wvu » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:59 am

Iroh wrote:Oh, and everyone in my testing room looked absolutely downtrodden after the test. No tears, although one guy was obviously pissed and remarked, "Well that was a fucking waste of an afternoon."

To be fair, this describes every LSAT I ever took.

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EzraFitz
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby EzraFitz » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:50 pm

During the writing section (thank heavens) the one proctor was absentmindedly tapping on the keyboard that was attached to the computer that is connected to the projector in the test room. About 30 seconds after he stopped, there was a bing for EVERY SINGLE TIME HE HIT THE KEYS. The best part is, the proctors looked around completely unaware of where the sound was coming from.

Needless to say, after the third cycle of this silliness, a kid in the front row loudly states "Stop it. It's you making the noise. Stop. Hitting. The. Keyboard."

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Happy Gilmore
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby Happy Gilmore » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:22 pm

Kid I knew from school said during the break that he finished every section 5+ minutes early and sat there twiddling his thumbs glancing around. (I didn't care to check if he actually was or not)... He posted on Facebook a day after we got our scores that he is going to retake. He scored a 157.

He's either a really fast idiot or a lying idiot. Enjoy John Marshall.

KingFish
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby KingFish » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:56 pm

More, please.

lalalany
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby lalalany » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:34 am

.
Last edited by lalalany on Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

indo
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby indo » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:06 am

Word1 wrote:This was in Prepping for the LSAT.
Girl: So I plan on going to Stanford
Me: oh yea?
Girl: yea. I already found an apartment and everything.
Me: oh so how'd you do on the LSATs?
Girl: I'm taking in June
Me: oh cool, how do you expect to score?
Girl: mid-170s
Me: awesome.
Girl: yea, my strategy is that I skip the hardest Logic Game and the hardest RC passage. And I usually get through at least 20 LR questions and only get a few wrong.
Me: so, how do you expect to get a 175?
Girl: oh, it works out. My Instructor said so.
Me: I'm not sure if it does actually work out.
Girl: well, have you heard of the "Curve"??
Me: ...yes, yes I have.
Girl: anyway I'm a girl and an underepresented minority. I'll be fine.
Me: hmmmm... Enjoy Stanford.


The girl had the right strategy. She must have not explain to you correctly or you miss understood her.
She is an URM . Her score of 167 is equivalent of 175 to white and Asian.
Since she is an URM score of 164 and GPA 3.7 will be sufficient to get in to Stanford.

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Adam Banks
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby Adam Banks » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:20 am

This dude was telling me how he was scoring in thel low 50's and his goal was just to get into thomas jefferson or whatever TTT it is in California, so he could become an agent out there.

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PennBull
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby PennBull » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:32 am

Adam Banks wrote:This dude was telling me how he was scoring in thel low 50's and his goal was just to get into thomas jefferson or whatever TTT it is in California, so he could become an agent out there.


The amount of people who are trying to be sports agents with law degrees from shitty schools makes my brain melt.

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MKX
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby MKX » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:49 am

Happy Gilmore wrote:Kid I knew from school said during the break that he finished every section 5+ minutes early and sat there twiddling his thumbs glancing around. (I didn't care to check if he actually was or not)... He posted on Facebook a day after we got our scores that he is going to retake. He scored a 157.

He's either a really fast idiot or a lying idiot. Enjoy John Marshall.

I had a friend from HS tell me his target score is a 155-158 and his dream school is John Marshall. I informed him that with a 158 he can get Loyola or Chicago Kent, but he said no Marshall is better.


:roll:

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jselson
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby jselson » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:52 am

indo wrote:
Word1 wrote:This was in Prepping for the LSAT.
Girl: So I plan on going to Stanford
Me: oh yea?
Girl: yea. I already found an apartment and everything.
Me: oh so how'd you do on the LSATs?
Girl: I'm taking in June
Me: oh cool, how do you expect to score?
Girl: mid-170s
Me: awesome.
Girl: yea, my strategy is that I skip the hardest Logic Game and the hardest RC passage. And I usually get through at least 20 LR questions and only get a few wrong.
Me: so, how do you expect to get a 175?
Girl: oh, it works out. My Instructor said so.
Me: I'm not sure if it does actually work out.
Girl: well, have you heard of the "Curve"??
Me: ...yes, yes I have.
Girl: anyway I'm a girl and an underepresented minority. I'll be fine.
Me: hmmmm... Enjoy Stanford.


The girl had the right strategy. She must have not explain to you correctly or you miss understood her.
She is an URM . Her score of 167 is equivalent of 175 to white and Asian.
Since she is an URM score of 164 and GPA 3.7 will be sufficient to get in to Stanford.


No. The joke is that she (and you) are massively overestimating the URM boost.

1) She says she skips the hardest LG and RC sections, so that's already 7 + 7 (14) gone.
2) She says she gets thru "at least" 20 questions on the LR sections, so let's say 22 each. That's 3 + 3 (6) gone.
3) She says she only gets a "few" wrong, so let's be optimistic and say that's 5.

So 14 + 6 + 5 = 25. That's 75 right, which translates to a 161 on June's test.

MyLSN shows only 2 URMs over the past 10 years being accepted with a 161.

Even if she swung a 164, she still only has a 33% shot (if gpa > 3.5).
Last edited by jselson on Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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guano
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby guano » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:54 am

MKX wrote:
Happy Gilmore wrote:Kid I knew from school said during the break that he finished every section 5+ minutes early and sat there twiddling his thumbs glancing around. (I didn't care to check if he actually was or not)... He posted on Facebook a day after we got our scores that he is going to retake. He scored a 157.

He's either a really fast idiot or a lying idiot. Enjoy John Marshall.

I had a friend from HS tell me his target score is a 155-158 and his dream school is John Marshall. I informed him that with a 158 he can get Loyola or Chicago Kent, but he said no Marshall is better.


:roll:

A neighbor of mine scored a 135 and applied to Harvard and NYU.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Overheard at the LSAT

Postby TaipeiMort » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:47 pm

patfeeney wrote:
slack_academic wrote:In case anyone's lurking here and thinking of taking a Kaplan course, don't do it.
TheMostDangerousLG wrote:Bro, stop trying to make Kaplan happen. It's not going to happen.


A disclaimer: I have never taken a Kaplan course, I've only done self-study, and I believe self-study is the only real way to go to get above a 165 on the test.


I applied to teach Kaplan LSAT. They only paid $18/hour. They only required a 162 LSAT to get the job. Also, they didn't really care about one's knowledge of the LSAT. During the interview they had someone working toward a JD/MBA from a TT school, and some administrator secretary lady without test teaching experience "evaluate" my teaching ability. They had me teach how to put a diaper on a baby, and had another guy teach how to juggle. It was pretty ridiculous.

I guess they didn't care that I actually scored high on the LSAT or had LSAT tutoring experience. No questions about the LSAT, I don't even think the word came up. They also let their teachers cross-teach, meaning I could teach the GRE or GMAT if they hired me, even though I didn't have experience with these tests-- I hope they didn't do the same for LSAT teachers. They said even if this happened, it would be okay because they would send me to some weekend training where I learned everything they needed me to know about the other tests.

In the end, they only cared about what some dude with an upper 150-something LSAT and an administrator thought about how I described the steps to putting a diaper on a baby. Instead, I ended up working for a legit LSAT prep company making $50/hr. Don't touch Kaplan.




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