Retake Testmasters or try Blueprint??

flannelman
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Retake Testmasters or try Blueprint??

Postby flannelman » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:58 am

After completing a Testmasters class I'm in a position where I would like to either retake it (after having missed a great portion of study time due to some "life issues") and fine tune what I learned as well as work with an instructor I trust, or try out some new methods with Blueprint. I hear RC is discussed In far more detail in Blueprint which would be very helpful, but I would risk getting a new teacher that may not be so great. However I'm wondering if trying Blueprint after working the Testmasters system could actually hurt more than help (confusing theories..l though similar surely there is some difference). Not to mention I have managed to preserve 6 or 7 full PT's and taking a new course might ruin the notion of saving those until the 6 weeks before my december exam.

Anyone have any experience with this? Any advice would be much appreciated, thanks!

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Jeffort
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Re: Retake Testmasters or try Blueprint??

Postby Jeffort » Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:49 am

Why do you think you need to re-take the course or take another one right away or at all? You said you went to all the classes but that your main problem was being able to complete all the homework as the class went along due to 'life explosion' issues you had. Life explosion/implosion issues or not, most people that take live prep courses do not/are not able to complete all the homework problems lesson by lesson from one class session to the next. That is pretty normal.

If you gained a good foundation from the class you attended and took good notes, since you are not taking the October test, why not just use your available time to study, practice and review what you were taught in the class and do that a lot.

It takes a while to fully ingrain all the concepts, techniques, strategies, what have you, that are taught in a full length course. A ton of stuff is thrown at you really fast in 4 hour sessions over the course of about 9 weeks. At the end of those ~9 weeks you cannot be an expert of it all and have it all ingrained and down pat. To master it you need to review your notes, the lessons, HW problems, etc. and study and practice more to make it all 'stick' and become second nature.

I think switching to another course would be a mistake. You may not even need a repeat of the course you already took, but if you think taking another class would really help and are going to do that, take TM again so that you get the same curriculum and methodologies you already learned presented again and reinforced. Unless you found a serious systemic problem with the TM course, curriculum, methods, etc. there is no reason to switch companies and have to learn and adapt to a different prep method from a different source. Plus, if you re-take the TM course you pay a lower re-taker fee to enroll.

bp colin
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Re: Retake Testmasters or try Blueprint??

Postby bp colin » Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:21 pm

I work for Blueprint, so I can answer any questions you might have about our course.

Which prep tests did you save? There are a number of extra tests in the BP curriculum, and we've saved the most recent ones to be used as practice tests, so they might be the same ones anyway.

Jeffort definitely brings up some good points. If you feel like you learned everything fairly well, and it's just a matter of practice, you might be fine with your current materials. If you're sure you want to retake, and it's a matter of picking which course, you could go either way. If you liked everything from your TM course, and wanted to save some money, then that could be the way to go. Though I don't think switching would necessarily be a mistake. I've had a number of students in my classes who had previously taken TM classes, and the confusion factor of learning different methods has never really cropped up, which you seemed concerned about. In fact, the students I've had who had previously taken TM liked us a whole lot more (though that's not a representative sample - they came to us specifically because they had a less-than-ideal experience with TM).

Also, just so you know, I'm fairly certain Jeffort used to work for TM. Don't know if he still does.

If you've got any other specific questions about BP, feel free to PM me.

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Jeffort
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Re: Retake Testmasters or try Blueprint??

Postby Jeffort » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:03 pm

bp colin wrote:I work for Blueprint, so I can answer any questions you might have about our course.

Also, just so you know, I'm fairly certain Jeffort used to work for TM. Don't know if he still does.

If you've got any other specific questions about BP, feel free to PM me.


Colin,

What does the fact that I used to teach for TM have to do with the advice I gave to the question the OP asked? You obviously know my real name/identity/LSAT prep teaching history in part, and that my corresponding pseudonym on discussion boards is 'Jeffort'. You could not have known that without talking to Trent, Matt, Jodi, Justin or a few others.

I'm a little spooked by your stalker like knowledge about me. I don't have that many posts on the boards these days, none of which would tell you what you seem to already know!


Including that 'outing' fact in your post to try to prove bias to discount my advice in order to generate an enrollment in your classes rather than the student taking TM again if the student decides to re-take a class is suspect.

If I am wrong and you are trying to 'out' me as a veteran instructor to give respect, THANX! :)

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suspicious android
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Re: Retake Testmasters or try Blueprint??

Postby suspicious android » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:49 pm

I think this idea of being confused by different terminology is way, way overblown. Unless you have a really crappy instructor and/or course, there shouldn't be such significant differences that you couldn't figure things out within an hour or two. It's not like any company has access to some secret LSAT decoder ring that unravels the mysteries of logic.

I've taught students who cling to terminology from other companies, but it hasn't been a big deal. If you want to call assuming the consequent a mistaken reversal or whatever other trademark term you're familiar with. The ideas are the same and it's just changing names. It shouldn't take too long to switch to whatever terminology your new instructor uses.

That being said, if you think your instructor and course were pretty good, and you attended all the classes, I would be skeptical that doing a new course or repeating the old one would be especially helpful to you. I'd try re-working through the lessons by yourself, addressing whatever weaknesses you have and maybe get a few hours of tutoring to supplement whatever you're shaky on. 60-80 of class time is a lot to repeat.

bp colin
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Re: Retake Testmasters or try Blueprint??

Postby bp colin » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:15 am

It's an LSAT instructor party!

Jeffort wrote:You obviously know my real name/identity/LSAT prep teaching history in part, and that my corresponding pseudonym on discussion boards is 'Jeffort'. You could not have known that without talking to Trent, Matt, Jodi, Justin or a few others.

I'm a little spooked by your stalker like knowledge about me. I don't have that many posts on the boards these days, none of which would tell you what you seem to already know!


What the hell are you talking about? What I know about you I learned from the post about you working for Testmasters that you yourself wrote.

Jeffort wrote:
What does the fact that I used to teach for TM have to do with the advice I gave to the question the OP asked?

Including that 'outing' fact in your post to try to prove bias to discount my advice in order to generate an enrollment in your classes rather than the student taking TM again if the student decides to re-take a class is suspect.


I started my post by saying I'm a BP instructor.

When you tell the OP that, should they take a course, they should "take TM again," but don't mention that you're an employee of Testmasters, I think that's pretty suspect. I think that's somewhat relevant information, although perhaps flannelman would have preferred to not know that.

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lennonist
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Re: Retake Testmasters or try Blueprint??

Postby lennonist » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:25 am

Have taken TM in college and was in your shoes. Then found out about Blueprint when moved to LA. I like them much better. My score improved 20+ points because the BP method is more accessible and their book actually contain lessons' explanations (unlike TM), meaning that if you, for some reason, don't end up taking the test after the class is over, you can use your books to self-study. I did just that. Feel free to message me if you have specific questions.

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Jeffort
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Re: Retake Testmasters or try Blueprint??

Postby Jeffort » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:42 pm

bp colin wrote:It's an LSAT instructor party!

Jeffort wrote:You obviously know my real name/identity/LSAT prep teaching history in part, and that my corresponding pseudonym on discussion boards is 'Jeffort'. You could not have known that without talking to Trent, Matt, Jodi, Justin or a few others.

I'm a little spooked by your stalker like knowledge about me. I don't have that many posts on the boards these days, none of which would tell you what you seem to already know!


What the hell are you talking about? What I know about you I learned from the post about you working for Testmasters that you yourself wrote.

Jeffort wrote:
What does the fact that I used to teach for TM have to do with the advice I gave to the question the OP asked?

Including that 'outing' fact in your post to try to prove bias to discount my advice in order to generate an enrollment in your classes rather than the student taking TM again if the student decides to re-take a class is suspect.


I started my post by saying I'm a BP instructor.

When you tell the OP that, should they take a course, they should "take TM again," but don't mention that you're an employee of Testmasters, I think that's pretty suspect. I think that's somewhat relevant information, although perhaps flannelman would have preferred to not know that.


Uhmm, ok Colin. I'm not sure which parts of what I said you misunderstood.

My LSD post you cited is over 2 years old and includes my later edit/update "The above is redacted" in big bold text at the bottom. It's been a long time since I was a Testmasters employee. These days I'm just Jeffort on the boards with a simple agenda: help people increase their LSAT scores so they can get into good Law Schools.

I still find it suspect that you suddenly found that old post (it would have taken research/reading time to find, especially since it is on a different board!) before replying and felt it relevant to post the fact of my previous affiliation with TM (incorrectly) to discount my advice to the student in order to try to get him to enroll in a BP class.

The more likely scenario (unless you read the post history on all the boards of each user you reply to) is that you already knew or Trent or Matt or somebody told you. I don't mind it being mentioned, just get the facts straight and don't BS about how and why you knew that and mentioned it while also trying to use it as a way to get the student to enroll in a BP class.

Back to what is important... Since the OP didn't have enough time to fully immerse himself into the course and do all the HW to get the full benefit, is thinking about taking a course again to get back into the groove, and since it was a course from a recognized quality provider it makes sense to just take the same course again. No need to adapt to new labels/organizations of material/methods/descriptions/etc., just a repeat to get reinforcement of the same curriculum/stuff/presentation in the same ways, etc.

With his circumstances, had the student asked the same question but had taken BP instead of TM I would have said 're-take BP'.

bp colin
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Re: Retake Testmasters or try Blueprint??

Postby bp colin » Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:37 pm

Let the games begin!

--ImageRemoved--

Seriously, we should start a sub-board for test prep instructor pissing contests.

(and credit to tomwatts for the pic)

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sundance95
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Re: Retake Testmasters or try Blueprint??

Postby sundance95 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:04 pm

bp colin wrote:Let the games begin!

--ImageRemoved--

Seriously, we should start a sub-board for test prep instructor pissing contests.

(and credit to tomwatts for the pic)


I'm all for it if it means we won't have to be subjected to asinine posts by BP shill accounts on every test prep thread.

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Jeffort
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Re: Retake Testmasters or try Blueprint??

Postby Jeffort » Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:07 pm

sundance95 wrote:
bp colin wrote:Let the games begin!



I'm all for it if it means we won't have to be subjected to asinine posts by BP shill accounts on every test prep thread.


Image

Here's a fun time sucking game that is fairly entertaining and harder to crack than the riddle of BP Colins PR agenda he wont admit to.

--LinkRemoved--

Beware, things get really nasty around level 13!

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EarlCat
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Re: Retake Testmasters or try Blueprint??

Postby EarlCat » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:06 pm

sundance95 wrote:I'm all for it if it means we won't have to be subjected to asinine posts by BP shill accounts on every test prep thread.


^This.

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shanemahsa
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Re: Retake Testmasters or try Blueprint??

Postby shanemahsa » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:33 pm

I disagree with the idea that taking another course is going to give you some special insight into the LSAT, especially since you didn't seem to express any trouble with the first class save for "life problems." You probably need primarily to work on formal logic, since the test itself is really formulaic and repetitive.

I suggest that you learn how to get answers correct by following suggestions you learned in your first class and then work on becoming more efficient at them. Rather than focusing on strategies to help you navigate the superficial rules and entities presented by the test, however, learn to understand what the test is designed to measure: your ability to isolate and comprehend logical positions under a time constraint. Master this and you're golden.

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Lasers
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Re: Retake Testmasters or try Blueprint??

Postby Lasers » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:51 pm

flannelman wrote:After completing a Testmasters class I'm in a position where I would like to either retake it (after having missed a great portion of study time due to some "life issues") and fine tune what I learned as well as work with an instructor I trust, or try out some new methods with Blueprint. I hear RC is discussed In far more detail in Blueprint which would be very helpful, but I would risk getting a new teacher that may not be so great. However I'm wondering if trying Blueprint after working the Testmasters system could actually hurt more than help (confusing theories..l though similar surely there is some difference). Not to mention I have managed to preserve 6 or 7 full PT's and taking a new course might ruin the notion of saving those until the 6 weeks before my december exam.

Anyone have any experience with this? Any advice would be much appreciated, thanks!


i'm taking blueprint now.

haven't seen any testmasters materials, but i bought the lg bible a year ago and for the most part, the strategies all seem fairly similar, leading me to believe they are relatively similar across all prep courses/books. i believe the only issue might be different names for each strategy, but that might be the only confusion that you may be subject to.

i think bp does a nice job covering all sections; my diagnostic was 146 and i've been scoring in the 160's, so we'll see how it goes tomorrow to determine how much i've improved.

ultimately it's up to you to determine if you think a change may help you.
Last edited by Lasers on Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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typ3
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Re: Retake Testmasters or try Blueprint??

Postby typ3 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:53 pm

Lasers wrote:
flannelman wrote:After completing a Testmasters class I'm in a position where I would like to either retake it (after having missed a great portion of study time due to some "life issues") and fine tune what I learned as well as work with an instructor I trust, or try out some new methods with Blueprint. I hear RC is discussed In far more detail in Blueprint which would be very helpful, but I would risk getting a new teacher that may not be so great. However I'm wondering if trying Blueprint after working the Testmasters system could actually hurt more than help (confusing theories..l though similar surely there is some difference). Not to mention I have managed to preserve 6 or 7 full PT's and taking a new course might ruin the notion of saving those until the 6 weeks before my december exam.

Anyone have any experience with this? Any advice would be much appreciated, thanks!


i'm taking blueprint now.

haven't seen any testmasters materials, but i bought the lg bible a year ago and for the most part, the strategies all seem fairly similar, leading me to believe they are relatively similar across all prep courses/books. i believe the only issue might be different names for each strategy, but that might be the only confusion that you may be subject to.

i think bp does a good job in all sections in my opinion; my diagnostic was 146 and i've been scoring in the 160's, so we'll see how it goes tomorrow to determine how much i've improved.


How long does it normally take a person to get through the BP Movie content? A friend was asking me this today and I had no idea.

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shanemahsa
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Re: Retake Testmasters or try Blueprint??

Postby shanemahsa » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:54 pm

Lasers wrote: ...for the most part, the strategies all seem fairly similar, leading me to believe they are relatively similar across all prep courses/books.


It's almost like they're prepping you for the same test 8). Sorry... had to.

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Lasers
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Re: Retake Testmasters or try Blueprint??

Postby Lasers » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:55 pm

typ3 wrote:
Lasers wrote:
flannelman wrote:After completing a Testmasters class I'm in a position where I would like to either retake it (after having missed a great portion of study time due to some "life issues") and fine tune what I learned as well as work with an instructor I trust, or try out some new methods with Blueprint. I hear RC is discussed In far more detail in Blueprint which would be very helpful, but I would risk getting a new teacher that may not be so great. However I'm wondering if trying Blueprint after working the Testmasters system could actually hurt more than help (confusing theories..l though similar surely there is some difference). Not to mention I have managed to preserve 6 or 7 full PT's and taking a new course might ruin the notion of saving those until the 6 weeks before my december exam.

Anyone have any experience with this? Any advice would be much appreciated, thanks!


i'm taking blueprint now.

haven't seen any testmasters materials, but i bought the lg bible a year ago and for the most part, the strategies all seem fairly similar, leading me to believe they are relatively similar across all prep courses/books. i believe the only issue might be different names for each strategy, but that might be the only confusion that you may be subject to.

i think bp does a good job in all sections in my opinion; my diagnostic was 146 and i've been scoring in the 160's, so we'll see how it goes tomorrow to determine how much i've improved.


How long does it normally take a person to get through the BP Movie content? A friend was asking me this today and I had no idea.


i don't have a clue since i just finished taking a live course. the movie looks pretty dang awesome with their supposedly new animation. in some ways, i think it might be better than live lessons since you can probably replay parts of it.

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Lasers
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Re: Retake Testmasters or try Blueprint??

Postby Lasers » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:56 pm

shanemahsa wrote:
Lasers wrote: ...for the most part, the strategies all seem fairly similar, leading me to believe they are relatively similar across all prep courses/books.


It's almost like they're prepping you for the same test 8). Sorry... had to.

well, that does make quite a bit of sense. :D




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