LSAT and law school potential? Forum

rso11 · Post by **rso11** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:51 pm

Anybody else feel like their PT LSAT scores are not reflecting their potential to do well in law school? I have a pretty good GPA from a top public university and I've been working at a litigator's office since graduation. I definitely feel like I have a lot of potential but for some reason I can't nail this LSAT. I've done a lot of practice tests and studied all 3 main PowerScore books too. I don't really know what to make of it!

St.Remy · Post by **St.Remy** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:54 pm

rso11 wrote:Anybody else feel like their PT LSAT scores are not reflecting their potential to do well in law school? I have a pretty good GPA from a top public university and I've been working at a litigator's office since graduation. I definitely feel like I have a lot of potential but for some reason I can't nail this LSAT. I've done a lot of practice tests and studied all 3 main PowerScore books too. I don't really know what to make of it!

Statistically those LSAT scores are a better predictor than your GPA, top public or otherwise. This doesn't mean that either is a particularly good measure, but don't be convinced that you have what it takes to do well in law school just because your GPA isn't bad.

whymeohgodno · Post by **whymeohgodno** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:56 pm

LSAT is the best indicator we have. That doesn't mean it's completely accurate.

But if you are really struggling on the LSAT, I don't think you would do so great in law school.

gdane · Post by **gdane** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:58 pm

rso11 wrote:Anybody else feel like their PT LSAT scores are not reflecting their potential to do well in law school? I have a pretty good GPA from a top public university and I've been working at a litigator's office since graduation. I definitely feel like I have a lot of potential but for some reason I can't nail this LSAT. I've done a lot of practice tests and studied all 3 main PowerScore books too. I don't really know what to make of it!

Dont overemphasize where you went to school. Dont be one of those people that say they went to a "top 100" university. What the hell does that even mean? Since when is being top 100 a good thing?

In seriousness, this question has been asked a million and one times. I asked it a few months ago in reference to a friend that scored subpar on the LSAT, but ended up being in the top 10% of her class after her first semester. So, a poor LSAT score doesnt always mean that one will do poorly in law school and a good LSAT score doesnt mean that one will do extraordinary.

Just keep studying. You say PT score, so presumably you havent even taken the actual LSAT yet. Keep working and see how things work out.

Good luck!

gdane · Post by **gdane** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:59 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:LSAT is the best indicator we have. That doesn't mean it's completely accurate.

But if you are really struggling on the LSAT, I don't think you would do so great in law school.

No no no no no. Bad advice. If theres one thing you should learn from the LSAT its that you shouldnt generalize from a small instance.

Also, the OP never told us his/her PT scores. For all we know he/shes averaging in the 160's, but he/she feels this is a poor score. Poor is subjective. I see tons of people on here that feel their 170 is a poor score. So, dont think that his struggling automatically means that he's scoring a 120 or whatnot.

whymeohgodno · Post by **whymeohgodno** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:04 pm

gdane5 wrote:
rso11 wrote:Anybody else feel like their PT LSAT scores are not reflecting their potential to do well in law school? I have a pretty good GPA from a top public university and I've been working at a litigator's office since graduation. I definitely feel like I have a lot of potential but for some reason I can't nail this LSAT. I've done a lot of practice tests and studied all 3 main PowerScore books too. I don't really know what to make of it!
Dont overemphasize where you went to school. Dont be one of those people that say they went to a "top 100" university. What the hell does that even mean? Since when is being top 100 a good thing?

In seriousness, this question has been asked a million and one times. I asked it a few months ago in reference to a friend that scored subpar on the LSAT, but ended up being in the top 10% of her class after her first semester. So, a poor LSAT score doesnt always mean that one will do poorly in law school and a good LSAT score doesnt mean that one will do extraordinary.

Just keep studying. You say PT score, so presumably you havent even taken the actual LSAT yet. Keep working and see how things work out.

Good luck!

What's subpar?

If she scored somewhere in the 160's that's not extraordinary but nothing to be amazed by if she ended up in top 10% of her class.

If she scored in the mid to low 150's I would say she is an exceptional case.

bk1 · Post by **bk1** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:06 pm

LSAT correlates to what, 16% of your 1L grades? Never mind the fact that most of the people you go to school with have a similar LSAT score to you.

gdane · Post by **gdane** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:06 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
gdane5 wrote:
rso11 wrote:Anybody else feel like their PT LSAT scores are not reflecting their potential to do well in law school? I have a pretty good GPA from a top public university and I've been working at a litigator's office since graduation. I definitely feel like I have a lot of potential but for some reason I can't nail this LSAT. I've done a lot of practice tests and studied all 3 main PowerScore books too. I don't really know what to make of it!
Dont overemphasize where you went to school. Dont be one of those people that say they went to a "top 100" university. What the hell does that even mean? Since when is being top 100 a good thing?

In seriousness, this question has been asked a million and one times. I asked it a few months ago in reference to a friend that scored subpar on the LSAT, but ended up being in the top 10% of her class after her first semester. So, a poor LSAT score doesnt always mean that one will do poorly in law school and a good LSAT score doesnt mean that one will do extraordinary.

Just keep studying. You say PT score, so presumably you havent even taken the actual LSAT yet. Keep working and see how things work out.

Good luck!
What's subpar?

If she scored somewhere in the 160's that's not extraordinary but nothing to be amazed by if she ended up in top 10% of her class.

If she scored in the mid to low 150's I would say she is an exceptional case.

She scored a 152. She got into UMiami and ended up doing very well her first year. She worked very hard though. In this case I would say that her top 10% was due to her working very hard. She is probably an exception, but the main point is that one can do well in law school in spite of scoring poorly on the LSAT.

09042014 · Post by **09042014** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:11 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
gdane5 wrote:
rso11 wrote:Anybody else feel like their PT LSAT scores are not reflecting their potential to do well in law school? I have a pretty good GPA from a top public university and I've been working at a litigator's office since graduation. I definitely feel like I have a lot of potential but for some reason I can't nail this LSAT. I've done a lot of practice tests and studied all 3 main PowerScore books too. I don't really know what to make of it!
Dont overemphasize where you went to school. Dont be one of those people that say they went to a "top 100" university. What the hell does that even mean? Since when is being top 100 a good thing?

In seriousness, this question has been asked a million and one times. I asked it a few months ago in reference to a friend that scored subpar on the LSAT, but ended up being in the top 10% of her class after her first semester. So, a poor LSAT score doesnt always mean that one will do poorly in law school and a good LSAT score doesnt mean that one will do extraordinary.

Just keep studying. You say PT score, so presumably you havent even taken the actual LSAT yet. Keep working and see how things work out.

Good luck!
What's subpar?

If she scored somewhere in the 160's that's not extraordinary but nothing to be amazed by if she ended up in top 10% of her class.

If she scored in the mid to low 150's I would say she is an exceptional case.

You get sorted into classes by the LSAT. So 150's are competing vs 150's. There are law schools where teh top of their class is almost entirely 150's. And there are law schools where the bottom of the class is almost entirely 170's.

It doesn't matter if the LSAT predicts how well you'll do, because it determines where you are going to school.

fosterp · Post by **fosterp** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:15 pm

The LSAT is not used to measure your absolute potential in law school or as a lawyer in general. Its used to measure your potential in law school relative to others who are applying for law school. Nothing says a 150 scorer can't do well as a lawyer or in law school. However the statistics will tell you that in general the person with the higher gpa/lsat or both, will do better. I am no admissions person but I assume a school wants to admit the best students they can. The more prestigious the school, the more people want to go there, which allows them to be more selective, and essentially governs what kind of score you need to be competitive in admissions.

The unfortunate side effect is yeah there's gonna be a few people who could be among the best lawyers at the top law firms, but wont get the chance (at least starting out) because they had a hard time in UG or they are bad at standardized tests. I would say though, that someone like that would be the exception rather than the rule.

gdane · Post by **gdane** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:22 pm

Its difficult to really find out whether a poor scorer can do well relative to better scoreres because the poor scorer often has to go to "bad" schools and hence the competition isnt as fierce as it is at "top" schools.

OP, dont worry so much. Just keep working and try to do the best you can.

Fresh · Post by **Fresh** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:24 pm

gdane5 wrote: Dont be one of those people that say they went to a "top 100" university. What the hell does that even mean? Since when is being top 100 a good thing?

This comment is irrelevant. OP said Top Public University, which has a quite limited range. I wouldn't be surprised if OP was from Berkeley, UCLA, Virginia, Michigan or UNC, which are all academically comparable

gdane · Post by **gdane** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:28 pm

Fresh wrote:
gdane5 wrote: Dont be one of those people that say they went to a "top 100" university. What the hell does that even mean? Since when is being top 100 a good thing?
This comment is irrelevant. OP said Top Public University, which has a quite limited range. I wouldn't be surprised if OP was from Berkeley, UCLA, Virginia, Michigan or UNC, which are all academically comparable

Its not irrelevant. People abuse the term "top university" on this website. They think that because they went to a school that USNWR ranked 86 they should be commended with a plaque. Search through the site and I guarantee that you'll find people mention that they go to a "top X university".

I will admit that its a pet peeve of mine so thats why Im bitching about it. Ha!

rso11 · Post by **rso11** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:30 pm

Thanks for all the replies, especially the encouraging ones. Yeah, I know the LSAT pretty much determines who will consider you and at this point I'm scoring low 160s on my PTs. While that's not horrible, it's definitely not enough to cut in at the very top schools. Guess all I can do is study more and hope for the best!

Any advice on handling nerves and fatigue? I've never had test anxiety but I find myself getting kind of panicky, especially toward the end of the LR sections. I always answer everything but sometimes have to guess 1 or 2 because I've run out of time. I suppose there's nothing for it but to do more timed sections?

gdane · Post by **gdane** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:32 pm

rso11 wrote:Thanks for all the replies, especially the encouraging ones. Yeah, I know the LSAT pretty much determines who will consider you and at this point I'm scoring low 160s on my PTs. While that's not horrible, it's definitely not enough to cut in at the very top schools. Guess all I can do is study more and hope for the best!

Any advice on handling nerves and fatigue? I've never had test anxiety but I find myself getting kind of panicky, especially toward the end of the LR sections. I always answer everything but sometimes have to guess 1 or 2 because I've run out of time. I suppose there's nothing for it but to do more timed sections?

Use them to your advantage. Use that adrenaline to keep you alert.

Just keep working. If youre in the low 160's your not that bad. Youre in a good position to improve.

Good luck!

rso11 · Post by **rso11** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:33 pm

Well, I DID go to a good university - Virginia, to be exact. I understand your annoyance at people who claim to have gone to really good schools when they haven't; who doesn't want to appear accomplished? Anyway, it's all relative I suppose. It's not like I went to Harvard!

rso11 · Post by **rso11** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:34 pm

Sorry all, I'm new to the forum business; how do you get your reply to show up directly to another user's response? Like the rest of you are doing in the white boxes?

whymeohgodno · Post by **whymeohgodno** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:35 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
gdane5 wrote:
rso11 wrote:Anybody else feel like their PT LSAT scores are not reflecting their potential to do well in law school? I have a pretty good GPA from a top public university and I've been working at a litigator's office since graduation. I definitely feel like I have a lot of potential but for some reason I can't nail this LSAT. I've done a lot of practice tests and studied all 3 main PowerScore books too. I don't really know what to make of it!
Dont overemphasize where you went to school. Dont be one of those people that say they went to a "top 100" university. What the hell does that even mean? Since when is being top 100 a good thing?

In seriousness, this question has been asked a million and one times. I asked it a few months ago in reference to a friend that scored subpar on the LSAT, but ended up being in the top 10% of her class after her first semester. So, a poor LSAT score doesnt always mean that one will do poorly in law school and a good LSAT score doesnt mean that one will do extraordinary.

Just keep studying. You say PT score, so presumably you havent even taken the actual LSAT yet. Keep working and see how things work out.

Good luck!
What's subpar?

If she scored somewhere in the 160's that's not extraordinary but nothing to be amazed by if she ended up in top 10% of her class.

If she scored in the mid to low 150's I would say she is an exceptional case.
You get sorted into classes by the LSAT. So 150's are competing vs 150's. There are law schools where teh top of their class is almost entirely 150's. And there are law schools where the bottom of the class is almost entirely 170's.

It doesn't matter if the LSAT predicts how well you'll do, because it determines where you are going to school.

Does this matter that much? I'm curious. Since law schools are graded on a curve, it might be reasonable to infer that someone at the bottom 30% at Yale would probably be top 10% at a TTT school.

I might be completely wrong though.

JG Hall · Post by **JG Hall** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:37 pm

Fresh wrote:
gdane5 wrote: Dont be one of those people that say they went to a "top 100" university. What the hell does that even mean? Since when is being top 100 a good thing?
This comment is irrelevant. OP said Top Public University, which has a quite limited range. I wouldn't be surprised if OP was from Berkeley, UCLA, Virginia, Michigan or UNC, which are all academically comparable

UNC troll

gdane · Post by **gdane** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:37 pm

rso11 wrote:Sorry all, I'm new to the forum business; how do you get your reply to show up directly to another user's response? Like the rest of you are doing in the white boxes?

On the bottom right hand corner of every post is a box that says quote. Click that box if you want to quote someones statement.

Fresh · Post by **Fresh** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:38 pm

JG Hall wrote:
Fresh wrote:
gdane5 wrote: Dont be one of those people that say they went to a "top 100" university. What the hell does that even mean? Since when is being top 100 a good thing?
This comment is irrelevant. OP said Top Public University, which has a quite limited range. I wouldn't be surprised if OP was from Berkeley, UCLA, Virginia, Michigan or UNC, which are all academically comparable
UNC troll

False, I hate UNC and included them on there because I wanted a better chance of guessing the OP's school right, which I did, of course.

JG Hall · Post by **JG Hall** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:40 pm

Fresh wrote:
JG Hall wrote:
Fresh wrote:
gdane5 wrote: Dont be one of those people that say they went to a "top 100" university. What the hell does that even mean? Since when is being top 100 a good thing?
This comment is irrelevant. OP said Top Public University, which has a quite limited range. I wouldn't be surprised if OP was from Berkeley, UCLA, Virginia, Michigan or UNC, which are all academically comparable
UNC troll

False, I hate UNC and included them on there because I wanted a better chance of guessing the OP's school right, which I did, of course.

UNC is not academically comparable to Berk, UVA, or Mich.

whymeohgodno · Post by **whymeohgodno** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:41 pm

UNC is not academically comparable to Berk, UVA, or Mich.

Berkeley is in a class of it's own imo.

Nom Sawyer · Post by **Nom Sawyer** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:44 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
UNC is not academically comparable to Berk, UVA, or Mich.
Berkeley is in a class of it's own imo.

I'd agree with Berkeley being better, but UNC is definitely quite close to UVA and Mich...

Anyways they're all top publics

JG Hall · Post by **JG Hall** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:45 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
UNC is not academically comparable to Berk, UVA, or Mich.
Berkeley is in a class of it's own imo.

so many asians, such little time

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