Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

masterthearts
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Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby masterthearts » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:12 pm

3.85 LSAC GPA from an Ivy, URM, bilingual
This is it. I studied my butt off this summer for the lsat and went from a 153 (pre-Kaplan course) to anywhere from a 159-164 post course. I studied my brains out and did a lot of studying on my own with the Bible books,etc. Over the 5-6 practice exams I took, I didn't score lower than a 159. But my hiighest was only 164.
The lsat will probably say these scores are not statistically significant, but for the schools, I'm sure it will make me or break me.
Well, should I hope I get lucky on the actual test and get my 164?
Anyone think I can get into the lower of the T-14?

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bk1
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby bk1 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:17 pm

I don't know the particulars of your studying and what you are doing now but I feel you might be suffering because of the different methods you have taken. IIRC, the Powerscore Bibles and Kaplan give differing methodology when it comes to the LSAT and if you haven't chosen one over the other, or synthesized your own, this could be hurting you.

Scoring on the high end of your range often comes down to how well you deal with test day nerves, imo.

EDIT: With a 160 you definitely have a shot at the lower T14. Higher than that opens CCN and I think possibilities of HYS as you get closer to 170.

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Jeffort
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby Jeffort » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:22 pm

masterthearts wrote:3.85 LSAC GPA from an Ivy, URM, bilingual
This is it. I studied my butt off this summer for the lsat and went from a 153 (pre-Kaplan course) to anywhere from a 159-164 post course. I studied my brains out and did a lot of studying on my own with the Bible books,etc. Over the 5-6 practice exams I took, I didn't score lower than a 159. But my hiighest was only 164.
The lsat will probably say these scores are not statistically significant, but for the schools, I'm sure it will make me or break me.
Well, should I hope I get lucky on the actual test and get my 164?
Anyone think I can get into the lower of the T-14?


No offense intended but SERIOUSLY? With a 3.85 from an Ivy you are asking a bunch of strangers with pretty much zero information about you to pull out crystal balls and predict your future in terms of getting lucky? The question itself shows that you know how silly it is since the basis of your inquiry is luck rather than merit combined with dreams of T14's and sugarplums and candy and all that.

Really, do you have a legit question other than "Can I get lucky and land in a T14 cuz of magic fortune that suddenly boosts my score all the sudden?" High LSAT scores are earned, nobody 'lucks' into a high score, everyone that gets one earns it.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby whymeohgodno » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:26 pm

Jeffort wrote:
masterthearts wrote:3.85 LSAC GPA from an Ivy, URM, bilingual
This is it. I studied my butt off this summer for the lsat and went from a 153 (pre-Kaplan course) to anywhere from a 159-164 post course. I studied my brains out and did a lot of studying on my own with the Bible books,etc. Over the 5-6 practice exams I took, I didn't score lower than a 159. But my hiighest was only 164.
The lsat will probably say these scores are not statistically significant, but for the schools, I'm sure it will make me or break me.
Well, should I hope I get lucky on the actual test and get my 164?
Anyone think I can get into the lower of the T-14?


No offense intended but SERIOUSLY? With a 3.85 from an Ivy you are asking a bunch of strangers with pretty much zero information about you to pull out crystal balls and predict your future in terms of getting lucky? The question itself shows that you know how silly it is since the basis of your inquiry is luck rather than merit combined with dreams of T14's and sugarplums and candy and all that.

Really, do you have a legit question other than "Can I get lucky and land in a T14 cuz of magic fortune that suddenly boosts my score all the sudden?" High LSAT scores are earned, nobody 'lucks' into a high score, everyone that gets one earns it.


I fail to comprehend how a 3.85 at an Ivy is impressive enough to warrant certain assumptions.

I'd say a 3.85 at a crappy school as a pre-med student is much more impressive than a 3.85 at Harvard as an English major.

masterthearts
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby masterthearts » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:30 pm

Well then, I guess I don't have the capability of scoring high on the lsat. Even 3rd and 4th tier law schools claim to have students who came from Harvard, Yale and Princeton.
So, I guess having an Ivy degree doesn't guarantee a high lsat score by any means. I didn't score that high on the SAT's either. I was in the median range for the ivy I am currently attending. Now I have to hope that I can graduate near the top of my class at whatever law school I attend. But, I think i face stiff competition for that goal.
I'm screwed. I hope my URM/bilingual ability can help

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bk1
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby bk1 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:32 pm

I can't tell if that's self-deprecation or sarcasm.

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Jeffort
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby Jeffort » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:47 pm

bk1 wrote:I can't tell if that's self-deprecation or sarcasm.


I can't tell either. Nor can I tell if the person really wants substantive advice or mainly wants to let us know that he/she, according to self-posted description, seemed to luck into an ivy UG in the first place. The posts scream of an intention to churn up a bunch of nasty AA debates/arguments.
Last edited by Jeffort on Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Anaconda
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby Anaconda » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:47 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
I fail to comprehend how a 3.85 at an Ivy is impressive enough to warrant certain assumptions.

I'd say a 3.85 at a crappy school as a pre-med student is much more impressive than a 3.85 at Harvard as an English major.


+1

DreamShake
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby DreamShake » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:48 pm

He's URM.

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bk1
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby bk1 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:55 pm

DreamShake wrote:He's URM.


orly?

whymeohgodno
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby whymeohgodno » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:57 pm

masterthearts wrote:Well then, I guess I don't have the capability of scoring high on the lsat. Even 3rd and 4th tier law schools claim to have students who came from Harvard, Yale and Princeton.
So, I guess having an Ivy degree doesn't guarantee a high lsat score by any means. I didn't score that high on the SAT's either. I was in the median range for the ivy I am currently attending. Now I have to hope that I can graduate near the top of my class at whatever law school I attend. But, I think i face stiff competition for that goal.
I'm screwed. I hope my URM/bilingual ability can help


That sums it up. Undergrad has nothing to do with law school.

You should feel privileged that you are a URM though. You don't need to score as high to get into a t14. Half the people on TLS would be cakewalking to a t14 school if they were a URM.

deadhipsters
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby deadhipsters » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:59 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
masterthearts wrote:Well then, I guess I don't have the capability of scoring high on the lsat. Even 3rd and 4th tier law schools claim to have students who came from Harvard, Yale and Princeton.
So, I guess having an Ivy degree doesn't guarantee a high lsat score by any means. I didn't score that high on the SAT's either. I was in the median range for the ivy I am currently attending. Now I have to hope that I can graduate near the top of my class at whatever law school I attend. But, I think i face stiff competition for that goal.
I'm screwed. I hope my URM/bilingual ability can help


That sums it up. Undergrad has nothing to do with law school.

You should feel privileged that you are a URM though. You don't need to score as high to get into a t14[b]. Half the people on TLS would be cakewalking to a t14 school if they were a URM.
[/b]


Yikes...
Last edited by deadhipsters on Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JG Hall
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby JG Hall » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:01 pm

deadhipsters wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
masterthearts wrote:Well then, I guess I don't have the capability of scoring high on the lsat. Even 3rd and 4th tier law schools claim to have students who came from Harvard, Yale and Princeton.
So, I guess having an Ivy degree doesn't guarantee a high lsat score by any means. I didn't score that high on the SAT's either. I was in the median range for the ivy I am currently attending. Now I have to hope that I can graduate near the top of my class at whatever law school I attend. But, I think i face stiff competition for that goal.
I'm screwed. I hope my URM/bilingual ability can help


That sums it up. Undergrad has nothing to do with law school.

You should feel privileged that you are a URM though. You don't need to score as high to get into a t14. Half the people on TLS would be cakewalking to a t14 school if they were a URM.



Yikes...

about 100% more would be at HYS...

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bk1
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby bk1 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:33 pm

... Really guys?

whymeohgodno
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby whymeohgodno » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:40 pm

bk1 wrote:... Really guys?


Are you not entertained? :D

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Jeffort
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby Jeffort » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:45 pm

bk1 wrote:... Really guys?


My thoughts exactly... URM doesn't carry THAT much weight in admissions as seems to be being implied here.

I've been teaching live classes and tutoring students with the LSAT and doing admissions consulting for about 9 years. During that time I have worked directly with several 1000 students including many URM's. It isn't a cakewalk for them like rumor and uniformed glib opinions make it out to be.

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gdane
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby gdane » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:48 pm

People exaggerate the URM boost. I would believe that it depends on the person. Its not always an automatic boost. A kid that grew up in the ghetto and overcame a childhood with both his/her parents locked up is sure to get a higher boost than a person that grew up in a high income household in subarban America.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby whymeohgodno » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:54 pm

gdane5 wrote:People exaggerate the URM boost. I would believe that it depends on the person. Its not always an automatic boost. A kid that grew up in the ghetto and overcame a childhood with both his/her parents locked up is sure to get a higher boost than a person that grew up in a high income household in subarban America.


Not really.

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bk1
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby bk1 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:57 pm

Jeffort wrote:
bk1 wrote:... Really guys?


My thoughts exactly... URM doesn't carry THAT much weight in admissions as seems to be being implied here.

I've been teaching live classes and tutoring students with the LSAT and doing admissions consulting for about 9 years. During that time I have worked directly with several 1000 students including many URM's. It isn't a cakewalk for them like rumor and uniformed glib opinions make it out to be.


I believe it does from what I have seen on LSN. It depends what you mean by "that much."

My ellipses was mainly at the AA debate that was starting to take shape.

deadhipsters
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby deadhipsters » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:58 pm

Actually it is that much of a boost in terms of numbers. Again, you would have to disregard the fact that URM's face discrimination, racism, and other unquantifiable elements. Thus the boost.
But seriously, being a URM is like winning the f-ing lottery if you disregard the racism, prejudice, hate crimes, and such.
Last edited by deadhipsters on Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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gdane
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby gdane » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:59 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
gdane5 wrote:People exaggerate the URM boost. I would believe that it depends on the person. Its not always an automatic boost. A kid that grew up in the ghetto and overcame a childhood with both his/her parents locked up is sure to get a higher boost than a person that grew up in a high income household in subarban America.


Not really.


Well none of us are on admissions committees. So we can talk and speculate amongst ourselves as much as we want.

Personally, I believe my previous scenario is ideal. No way should a rich kid that grew up privilaged as hell get a "URM" boost just because he's hispanic or black. To me a URM should be someone that overcame a less than ideal situation in their life. Just my opinion seeing as how I'm in the latter...

jaydizzle
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby jaydizzle » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:00 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
gdane5 wrote:People exaggerate the URM boost. I would believe that it depends on the person. Its not always an automatic boost. A kid that grew up in the ghetto and overcame a childhood with both his/her parents locked up is sure to get a higher boost than a person that grew up in a high income household in subarban America.


Not really.


I don't want to get in a URM debate or anything, but I get pissed off when some African American man with a family that makes $200,000 a year walks into a T-14 with a 160 while for me I can't even get into a T50 with that. The concept of AA is good, but it needs some serious revamping. I do believe people that the disadvantaged should get a boost, but look at incomes too... I don't like when people bring in the race card into it. I am not a racist, but I still don't like the system.

Anyways, time to get back on topic.

I believe scoring in the higher range does take luck. If you get that combination of games you are good at or maybe no scientific RC passages. Who knows.

deadhipsters
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby deadhipsters » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:06 pm

I went to an ivy league school with an AA whose father was involved in South African shipping (very wealthy). His numbers were below average for the school we attended and far below average for the ivy law school he now attends. It happens. Thus the debate over AA.
But that is the exception.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby whymeohgodno » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:07 pm

gdane5 wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
gdane5 wrote:People exaggerate the URM boost. I would believe that it depends on the person. Its not always an automatic boost. A kid that grew up in the ghetto and overcame a childhood with both his/her parents locked up is sure to get a higher boost than a person that grew up in a high income household in subarban America.


Not really.


Well none of us are on admissions committees. So we can talk and speculate amongst ourselves as much as we want.

Personally, I believe my previous scenario is ideal. No way should a rich kid that grew up privilaged as hell get a "URM" boost just because he's hispanic or black. To me a URM should be someone that overcame a less than ideal situation in their life. Just my opinion seeing as how I'm in the latter...


You check URM box. You get boost.

Poor white people growing up in poverty don't get boosts that are even comparable to the ones that rich URM's get.

It's the skin color that matters. Not the socioeconomic factors.

Socioeconomic factors makes for a good personal statement. At best it's a weak soft.

Being a URM is on a completely different level.

jaydizzle
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Re: Does scoring within ones high range on the LSAT take luck?

Postby jaydizzle » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:08 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
gdane5 wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
gdane5 wrote:People exaggerate the URM boost. I would believe that it depends on the person. Its not always an automatic boost. A kid that grew up in the ghetto and overcame a childhood with both his/her parents locked up is sure to get a higher boost than a person that grew up in a high income household in subarban America.


Not really.


Well none of us are on admissions committees. So we can talk and speculate amongst ourselves as much as we want.

Personally, I believe my previous scenario is ideal. No way should a rich kid that grew up privilaged as hell get a "URM" boost just because he's hispanic or black. To me a URM should be someone that overcame a less than ideal situation in their life. Just my opinion seeing as how I'm in the latter...


You check URM box. You get boost.

Poor white people growing up in poverty don't get boosts that are even comparable to the ones that rich URM's get.

It's the skin color that matters. Not the socioeconomic factors.

Socioeconomic factors makes for a good personal statement. At best it's a weak soft.

Being a URM is on a completely different level.


Yup, that's why it sucks....




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