Logi Games Using Hypos

thouse
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Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:46 am

Logi Games Using Hypos

Postby thouse » Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:06 pm

I wanted to hear from people who have used this technique recently and how successful they were? Meaning from prep test 50 to current..

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Jeffort
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Re: Logi Games Using Hypos

Postby Jeffort » Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:54 pm

thouse wrote:I wanted to hear from people who have used this technique recently and how successful they were? Meaning from prep test 50 to current..


Uhhhm, that is a really super vague question that is pretty much a rather silly non question.

Are you asking if the technique of diagramming stuff and sometimes writing out hypos to solve questions is helpful? Nahh, just do it all in your head, don't worry about taking any notes or jotting anything down as you do the analysis, your memory should be more than you need to keep track of all the variables as you go... :roll:

Seriously, diagramming is important, what is your actual question?

thouse
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Re: Logi Games Using Hypos

Postby thouse » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:35 am

I don't think its a vague question at all, I am speaking to people who basically use hypos to answer logic games questions instead of trying to make big inferences before actually working the game. Some tests I have found you have to make inferences in the beginning because hypos are just too time consuming, and then other tests I have seen that hypos actually work well because there aren't many inferences to make at the beginning of the game. I am inquiring about the current trend from people who have taken newer prep tests.

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Jeffort
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Re: Logi Games Using Hypos

Postby Jeffort » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:37 pm

thouse wrote:I don't think its a vague question at all, I am speaking to people who basically use hypos to answer logic games questions instead of trying to make big inferences before actually working the game. Some tests I have found you have to make inferences in the beginning because hypos are just too time consuming, and then other tests I have seen that hypos actually work well because there aren't many inferences to make at the beginning of the game. I am inquiring about the current trend from people who have taken newer prep tests.


Ok, now your question is clearer. In terms of whether it is a good idea to forgo spending time making a set-up and figuring out deductions before diving into the questions, that is an inefficient time wasting strategy.

If you just dive into the questions to try and brute force your way through each of the questions by writing out a bunch of trial and error hypos you will end up doing far more work than is necessary to solve the questions and will likely have trouble finishing any game section in 35 minutes or less.

Even though some games have fewer crucial deductions available to be made while creating the set-up than others, which in turn require more trial and error hypo work question by question, the overwhelming majority of games are not that way. Creating a good set-up, figuring out the available deductions and then using that to help answer the questions is always the more efficient way to go.

firemed
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Re: Logi Games Using Hypos

Postby firemed » Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:35 pm

I am being serious below, and not trying to slam you... just being honest.

If you are VERY smart and good (like IQ above 150 and scoring consistently 175+ on PTs) then sure, you can use hypos and brute force your way through every question. But, I am guessing, that if you were that smart you would already know the answer to this question... in which case you should diagram it out and make inferences in advance. Sometimes I don't diagram the inferences if they are profoundly obvious... but I have also noticed that I don't get to 5-8 questions per PT... so I am planning to start diagramming those too, and see if that gets me a few extra questions done.

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rbhesser
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Re: Logi Games Using Hypos

Postby rbhesser » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:22 pm

I always re-write the rules in a way that I can quickly glance back at them and then do some basic diagramming at the beginning of each game. It works well for me. There are certain games that I think that doing hypos or doing some deeper diagrams might help me out more, but I don't like to risk taking that much time on each game. Generally, I finish with 5-8 minutes left and rarely miss a question. On those games that need more diagramming, I go back and do it. I'd rather have the extra time at the end to focus on those games (and its only ever 1, if any at all) than take the time to go all out every time and risk not finishing in time. And personally, I think if you're going to do anything, I would diagram. It seems like hypos would be a waste of time more often than not.

I will say that I think LG tends to be very personal. I was lucky enough that it came naturally to without ever cracking open the LGB. So do what works for you. But try to develop a system that ensures that you will finish in time. There's nothing worse than having to completely guess on one of the games because you ran out of time.

fosterp
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Re: Logi Games Using Hypos

Postby fosterp » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:46 pm

This is sort of a toss up depending on the game and its rules. Some games have very restricted rules that allow you determine a lot of variables just on the application of one rule. In those games, diagramming the possibilities will allow you to quickly blow through each question. Its also worth noting that even if a rule doesn't allow you to diagram too many variables, if you see that a certain variable or set of variables only has a few possibilities its worth diagramming those possibilities if it allows you to determine even just one more. Rules that have large blocks of variables that must go together, or either/or variables often result in such limited possibilities. Also worth noting on the more abstract side of the game, the distribution itself of variables can sometimes limit possibilities as well, and it sometimes is worth diagramming the possibilities based on limited distribution scenarios.

That said, there's also a lot of games where diagramming anything but the initial diagram is absolutely worthless. In those cases, a strong understand of how the rules interact with each other is key, and often there's one or two rules that dictate much of the game.

And I have come across some games where the only solution I could find was to simply try out every possible answer for each question. Not a lot of them but upon looking for tips on those games online the most common answer was there is no trick just to quickly try and do the hypos as fast as possible.

Knowing when to apply the strategies can only really be learned by practice practice practice.




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