First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

RFKScott
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First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby RFKScott » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:47 am

I know a general tip on these boards is to try and do the first 15 problems in 15 minutes as they are generally easier. I am currently having serious LR timing problems and am unable to get to 4-5 questions per section. I understand the logic behind the problems and generally the only ones I miss are the ones I do not get to. How do you guys speed up and do those first 15 in 15? I am always confident on the answer choice I see especially the ones I paraphrase but I still make sure to read all the answer choices. Do any of you sort of go with a gamble and when you see a strong AC you just go to the next problem or do you just try and quickly read through the rest?

RFKScott
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby RFKScott » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:48 am

also how do you train for the 15 in 15? Do you do full sections or do you just time yourself on the first 15 over and over, or both? Thanks!

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Adjudicator
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby Adjudicator » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:51 am

I usually have the first 15 done in 10-12 minutes. Then again, I usually finish LR with 8 minutes left over.

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suspicious android
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby suspicious android » Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:15 am

I don't think 15 in 15 is really a good idea, unless you've gotten to the point where you can operate at top speed and still have 99% accuracy. In that case, you wouldn't really need to worry about any artificial pacing mark. If you consistently finish LR sections more than 2-3 minutes early, yet you aren't getting -0 almost every single time, something about your strategy is screwed up.

I used to consistently get 1-3 wrong per section, but I didn't consistently start to get 0-1 per section until I consciously slowed down. I ended up going with a 12 in 12 strategy, but didn't freak out if I was a minute or so off in either direction.

Sandro
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby Sandro » Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:36 am

i think I might get away from this strategy. My last PT i missed 4 LRs - 5,8,15 and 17

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Blindc1rca
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby Blindc1rca » Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:04 am

Yea i tried the whole 15 in 15 strategy. I went from going -1 to -3 on LR sections to going -4 to -7. I don't recommend it. What I do instead is spend all the time I find necessary on each question (well, always to a certain limit, but not rushing myself), and aim to finish the first 15 having nearly 1/2 my time left (usually going for the first 15 in ≤18). That said I never stress if I finish 15 and all I have left are 15 or 16 minutes. Each section is different, and having such a concrete pacing limit will definitely hurt your accuracy.

If you aren't able to finish 4 or 5 per section you need to stop doubting yourself, and you probably need to use some strategies to eliminate the egregious answers up front.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:18 am

Try for 15 in 15 but don't get upset with 16-19. I think having less than 15 minutes to do what are usually the ten toughest LR problems is tough. I know for me, rushing the parallel questions was as good as not even reading them and those fuckers were always at the end.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:26 am

I typically tried to aim for the first ten in 10 minutes. Keep in mind that doesnt automatically mean 1-10; if you need to skip one or two, that's fine. Don't get into a pride contest with the test and this mindset of since you can usually go perfect or near perfect in LR you can handle the first 10 without a problem.

If accuracy is not already there, this is not a recommended strategy though. Much better to not get to a question or two per section and be a lot more accurate than go to fast.

BeachedBrit
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby BeachedBrit » Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:43 am

Also if you're missing a few questions in each section try doing 1 - 15 then 22 - end then 16 - 21. This way the typically hardest questions will be at the end and you will miss fewer easy questions because you didn't get to them.

RFKScott
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby RFKScott » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:34 am

Thanks for the tips. Maybe I can look to around 15 in 18 or so. I am around 85-90% on questions I do get to and I know with a little bit more time I can get those harder Q's i dont get to. I notice that sometimes I lose focus randomly and end up reading a stimulus, if even not that difficult, more than once. Definitely something I need to shore up. I assume its just all about practice, practice, practice.

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Dany
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby Dany » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:39 am

I usually did 10 in 10, sometimes I'd get 15 in 15 but other times, not.

One of the HUGE benefits for me in doing it this way is that it helps me not to overthink the easier questions. Sometimes my mind gets away from me on LR and I start thinking "what if?" or "this kind of makes sense..." which will confuse me on the straightforward ones (i.e. the first 10-15.) I like to knock the first ones out quickly and efficiently, and save my time for parallel reasoning/flaw questions at the end.

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gdane
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby gdane » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:47 pm

The more important question is, how are you doing on these sections? Even though you dont finish, how are your results? Are you good at LR or do you suck?

If you suck at LR (-6 or more of whatever you completed), I would highly recommend giving yourself 20 minutes for the first 15 and then 15 for the last 10. You'd be better off focusing on the easier/intermediate questions more than the difficult ones.

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Dany
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby Dany » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:59 pm

gdane5 wrote:The more important question is, how are you doing on these sections? Even though you dont finish, how are your results? Are you good at LR or do you suck?

If you suck at LR (-6 or more of whatever you completed), I would highly recommend giving yourself 20 minutes for the first 15 and then 15 for the last 10. You'd be better off focusing on the easier/intermediate questions more than the difficult ones.


RFKScott wrote:Thanks for the tips. Maybe I can look to around 15 in 18 or so. I am around 85-90% on questions I do get to and I know with a little bit more time I can get those harder Q's i dont get to. I notice that sometimes I lose focus randomly and end up reading a stimulus, if even not that difficult, more than once. Definitely something I need to shore up. I assume its just all about practice, practice, practice.

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gdane
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby gdane » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:12 pm

I want an exact number. 85-90% gives me decimals. No such thing as getting .4 % of a question correct.

If RFK is able to do 18 within the 35 minute limit, is he getting 14 or 13 correct?

My larger concern was that he wasnt getting 100% accuracy on these questions. The important thing is to get all of the first 15 correct. If he's not then he should focus on getting them correct and not on doing 15 in 15. Thats just a general rule that assumes a person can easily do the hardest questions with more time.

zephyr36
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby zephyr36 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:29 pm

I think I'm going to also drop doing 15 in 15. When I do an untimed section I usually get -3/-4 in that section. However when I set a timer I'll get -7/-8, which is completely atrocious compared to how I'm doing otherwise (-2 in RC, -1/-2 in LG). When I look at the questions that I'm missing I'll miss about 80% of my questions in the 10-20 stretch. I'm thinking this might be because I think I'm too off-time and start panicking.

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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby Pip » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:51 pm

You know there is another way of approaching this that might be easier.

Do the whole test working as slowly as you need to to get the thing done... time yourself doing that and see how long it took... now simply try to beat that time on the next ones and work that way.

If you aren't even finishing the tests because you run out of time then you are wasting the chance to train yourself on the harder questions at the end. Frankly you might also work backwards and do the harder ones first, when your brain is freshest and then when you are getting brain strain you will be on the easier ones... no rule says you have to start at the front and go to the back.

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AverageTutoring
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby AverageTutoring » Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:10 pm

I strive for:

1-15 in 18
15-20 in 7
20-25 in 10

This is simply a guideline...adhering to it at the expense of accuracy would be pretty foolhardy. But I do find that having a pace that you want to beat/be consistent with is a good way to keep a sense of urgency in your game.

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Anaconda
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby Anaconda » Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:14 pm

I think strict benchmarks can be dangerous. I sometimes fall behind the 15-15 mark during the first 10 questions, but can easily make it up with 1-2 questions that take 30 seconds, which occur a few times every PT. Just noticed this in the last PT. I think it's more important to focus on accuracy than time. Why rush and make 5 stupid mistakes, when by taking you time you might not get to get adequately tackle 1-2 really long and complex parallel reasoning questions, for example.

afa_brandon
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby afa_brandon » Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:24 pm

Adjudicator wrote:I usually have the first 15 done in 10-12 minutes. Then again, I usually finish LR with 8 minutes left over.



This was a very helpful post


and the best strategy is to do each question as fast as you can without getting it wrong. trying to establish hard rules on timing just gives another thing to worry about. if a question is taking too long, circle it & come back to it.

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Ragged
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby Ragged » Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:14 pm

The way I gain speed is on the easier questions, espessially on the ones you can pre-phrase, as soon as I see the right answer I circle it and move on and don't waste time on reading all the answers. Only do this if you are a 100% its a perfect answer and there is no way there can be a better choice.

And I also aim for 15 in 15, even though I almost never attain it. Its usually something in a 12-14 range.

Also, don't panic if you are a bit behind schedule and don't get cocky if you are ahead of schedule, sections can turn around on you pretty quickly.

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Ragged
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby Ragged » Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:16 pm

afa_brandon wrote:
Adjudicator wrote:I usually have the first 15 done in 10-12 minutes. Then again, I usually finish LR with 8 minutes left over.



This was a very helpful post


and the best strategy is to do each question as fast as you can without getting it wrong. trying to establish hard rules on timing just gives another thing to worry about. if a question is taking too long, circle it & come back to it.



Not sure if you are joking there, but this is not the best strategy. When you are hardpressed for time you need to make the best guess and move on. To know to do that you need to know your own pace. Also knowing that you are on schedule gives you confidence.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:11 pm

RFKScott wrote:Thanks for the tips. Maybe I can look to around 15 in 18 or so. I am around 85-90% on questions I do get to and I know with a little bit more time I can get those harder Q's i dont get to. I notice that sometimes I lose focus randomly and end up reading a stimulus, if even not that difficult, more than once. Definitely something I need to shore up. I assume its just all about practice, practice, practice.


I would still occasionally have to reread stimuli multiple times, even when I was getting between 0 - 2 wrong per section. It's all about improving your speed a little on the easier questions and just building accuracy with the medium to hard questions. Def easier said than done, but a lot of practice helps a lot. Also- keep in mind that you can skip questions. I would usually skip between 3-6 questions per section that I just didn't initially get (or I knew were going to be difficult) and save them for last.

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gdane
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby gdane » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:17 pm

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
RFKScott wrote:Thanks for the tips. Maybe I can look to around 15 in 18 or so. I am around 85-90% on questions I do get to and I know with a little bit more time I can get those harder Q's i dont get to. I notice that sometimes I lose focus randomly and end up reading a stimulus, if even not that difficult, more than once. Definitely something I need to shore up. I assume its just all about practice, practice, practice.


I would still occasionally have to reread stimuli multiple times, even when I was getting between 0 - 2 wrong per section. It's all about improving your speed a little on the easier questions and just building accuracy with the medium to hard questions. Def easier said than done, but a lot of practice helps a lot. Also- keep in mind that you can skip questions. I would usually skip between 3-6 questions per section that I just didn't initially get (or I knew were going to be difficult) and save them for last.


Well this strategy can be somewhat useful if youre aiming for a specific score. If you know youre not going to get a 180, but a 165 or 170 is possible, you can target specific questions that you know you'll definitely get right. In this scenario the objective is to answer as many questions as you know you can get correct (like 100% sure), instead of finishing the section completely and missing a bunch because you were more concerned with time.

RFKScott
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby RFKScott » Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:10 pm

gdane5 wrote:I want an exact number. 85-90% gives me decimals. No such thing as getting .4 % of a question correct.

If RFK is able to do 18 within the 35 minute limit, is he getting 14 or 13 correct?

My larger concern was that he wasnt getting 100% accuracy on these questions. The important thing is to get all of the first 15 correct. If he's not then he should focus on getting them correct and not on doing 15 in 15. Thats just a general rule that assumes a person can easily do the hardest questions with more time.


I usually miss about 1 and at most 2 in the first 15 questions but that is probably close to about 20-25 minutes. I usually get a little slowed down on a problem or 2 and its hard for me to just circle it and move on after investing so much time into it and knowing that I will eventually crack it. I figure if I can do the easier Q's in less that 20 or 18. I have a good shot at completing and most likely getting the more difficult Q's correct.

Also when I do practice sections I mark down as far as I got during the 35 minutes and continue to go on and do the harder questions so I am learning the logic behind those as well and not wasting sections.

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gdane
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Re: First 15 LR problems in 15 minutes

Postby gdane » Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:15 pm

RFKScott wrote:
gdane5 wrote:I want an exact number. 85-90% gives me decimals. No such thing as getting .4 % of a question correct.

If RFK is able to do 18 within the 35 minute limit, is he getting 14 or 13 correct?

My larger concern was that he wasnt getting 100% accuracy on these questions. The important thing is to get all of the first 15 correct. If he's not then he should focus on getting them correct and not on doing 15 in 15. Thats just a general rule that assumes a person can easily do the hardest questions with more time.


I usually miss about 1 and at most 2 in the first 15 questions but that is probably close to about 20-25 minutes. I usually get a little slowed down on a problem or 2 and its hard for me to just circle it and move on after investing so much time into it and knowing that I will eventually crack it. I figure if I can do the easier Q's in less that 20 or 18. I have a good shot at completing and most likely getting the more difficult Q's correct.

Also when I do practice sections I mark down as far as I got during the 35 minutes and continue to go on and do the harder questions so I am learning the logic behind those as well and not wasting sections.


You seem to be in a good position. Getting 1 or 2 of the first 15 isnt bad, could be perfect, but still not bad.

I would say give yourself a 15 in 20 limit so then you could get those 1 or 2 that youre getting wrong correct and you still have 15 minutes to work on the next 10 questions. Thats plenty of time.




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