Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Hedwig
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby Hedwig » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:09 am

DreamShake wrote:sorry to be jumping in the midst of things, but i'm also doing 50-60 this month!


eit wrote:I scored a 180 on PT 52. 97 raw. -1LR, -0LG, -0LR, -1RC.

Not a fan of Comparative Reading, but the RC I missed wasn't even on that, it was on goddamn turtles or some shit like that.



just out of curiosity, was it question 14? that was also the only question i missed...the awful syntax in the credited response threw me off. i'm still not sure why "D" is incorrect, either. is it because of the word "unique"?



Yeah, I think so. I felt like there was very little difference between C and E (the credited answer).

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Hannibal
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby Hannibal » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:12 am

That LG about kids being supervised threw me off pretty bad. One less miss and I would have had a 180 T_T

Hedwig
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby Hedwig » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:16 am

Hannibal wrote:That LG about kids being supervised threw me off pretty bad. One less miss and I would have had a 180 T_T


I'm pretty sure the -km --> OV and the contrapositive -ov --> km was the most important part to that game. I do remember it being yucky, though.

kpuc
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby kpuc » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:46 am

No. 18: I had circled this question and narrowed the options to C and D. Initially chose D, then switched to C. Had I not changed my answer, I would've gotten that 180! I'm still not entirely convinced that D is the right answer as C is a pretty good choice as well.


I found this question tough as well, though I debated between A and D; C never even occurred to me as a possible contender. I eventually ended up choosing D because it was the most general and widely encompassing.

About PT 52:

Could someone explain #10 in the RC section?

I still don't quite understand #10 on the RC section. It was on the comparative reading passage, and it asks in which way are the two passages NOT parallel. The stimulus implies that 4 out of the 5 A/Cs would accurately compare and contrast the two passages, right? But I couldn't see how there was only one answer. For example, B states that: Passage A makes evaluative claims but Passage B does not. However, since both passages criticize historical and legal writing respectively, I thought that they were both making evaluative claims by evaluating the state of writing in their profession.

Since that is an inaccurate parallel description of the two passages, I thought B was the answer. However, it was not, indicating that indeed, Passage A was evaluative while Passage B was not.

How was Passage A being evaluative while Passage B was not? Am I misinterpreting what "evaluative" means?

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Cromartie
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby Cromartie » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:04 am

kpuc wrote:
No. 18: I had circled this question and narrowed the options to C and D. Initially chose D, then switched to C. Had I not changed my answer, I would've gotten that 180! I'm still not entirely convinced that D is the right answer as C is a pretty good choice as well.


I found this question tough as well, though I debated between A and D; C never even occurred to me as a possible contender. I eventually ended up choosing D because it was the most general and widely encompassing.

About PT 52:

Could someone explain #10 in the RC section?

I still don't quite understand #10 on the RC section. It was on the comparative reading passage, and it asks in which way are the two passages NOT parallel. The stimulus implies that 4 out of the 5 A/Cs would accurately compare and contrast the two passages, right? But I couldn't see how there was only one answer. For example, B states that: Passage A makes evaluative claims but Passage B does not. However, since both passages criticize historical and legal writing respectively, I thought that they were both making evaluative claims by evaluating the state of writing in their profession.

Since that is an inaccurate parallel description of the two passages, I thought B was the answer. However, it was not, indicating that indeed, Passage A was evaluative while Passage B was not.

How was Passage A being evaluative while Passage B was not? Am I misinterpreting what "evaluative" means?


Both passages make evaluative claims, and that's why B is incorrect. The question essentially asks you to identify a difference between Passage A and Passage B. Just because the question asks you to identify a difference between the passages does not necessarily mean the other answer choices must describe similarities between the passages. They could be false/erroneous descriptions of difference(s), which is the case here.

C is correct because Passage A gives specific examples of themes and titles ("Practices of Historical Narrative", etc.) to back up the author's criticism while Passage B does not provide any specific examples.

Hope that makes sense.

arean.ryan
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby arean.ryan » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:35 am

Just talked to my tutor, he recommended taking the most recent tests and work backwards..looks like I'll do PT 59 today.

Hedwig
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby Hedwig » Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:33 pm

Why wouldn't you work forwards?

PT 53 was today. 95 raw, 176 scaled. -1LR, -0LG, -1LR, -3RC.

Kind of disappointed because I feel like I should have done/could have done better on RC, and also by the fact that the two LR questions I missed were 2 and 6, respectively. WTF, hey?

kpuc
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby kpuc » Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:35 pm

Both passages make evaluative claims, and that's why B is incorrect. The question essentially asks you to identify a difference between Passage A and Passage B. Just because the question asks you to identify a difference between the passages does not necessarily mean the other answer choices must describe similarities between the passages. They could be false/erroneous descriptions of difference(s), which is the case here.

C is correct because Passage A gives specific examples of themes and titles ("Practices of Historical Narrative", etc.) to back up the author's criticism while Passage B does not provide any specific examples.

Hope that makes sense.


Oh, I see. I completely misunderstood the question. I thought it was a "Which one of the following is false?" question.

arean.ryan
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby arean.ryan » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:06 pm

eit wrote:Why wouldn't you work forwards?


No idea but he is the one with a 176 and completing HLS and I am the one who can't score passed a 160, so I'm just gonna shut up and listen :(

Hedwig
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby Hedwig » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:21 pm

arean.ryan wrote:
eit wrote:Why wouldn't you work forwards?


No idea but he is the one with a 176 and completing HLS and I am the one who can't score passed a 160, so I'm just gonna shut up and listen :(


Past.

But yeah, it makes sense to listen to your tutor's advice :). I'm personally doing PT 60, then PT 59, so I'm mixing it up a little (as in the last PT I do will be 59). Just because for some reason I feel like PT 60 is scary and thus if I take it second last it won't unnerve me?

Pastels
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby Pastels » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:58 pm

PT 54 tomorrow. Only 54-60 left to take. What is everyone doing when they are not taking tests? I am pretty much out of material and I feel like rehashing old exams messes with my mind.

Unshake
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby Unshake » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:26 pm

Feeling so uneasy about the LSAT now. I scored an average of ~172 and never below 170 on the last 6 (maybe more all of my stuff got jumbled when school started) practice tests I took all between (19-30) and on PT 53 and 54 scored a 166 and 167 :shock:

For whatever reason LG is killing me. I'm getting -1 or -2 per LR, -5-6! on LG, and -1-4 on RC (although the 4 was mostly due to distractions where I was at). I've gone through the LG bible once and on the older practice tests was getting hardly any wrong but now am getting killed. Anyways, have started rereading and redoing all of the drills in the bible as well as doing random games during my classes (...like molecular genetics will do me any good in LS anyways :roll: ).

Random note: Any advice for speed on LG sections? For whatever reason I get rushed at the end. Also, do you wait to diagram until after reading all of the rules? I feel like my diagrams are always terrible and end I up having to do a ton more work, but when I take more time on making inferences they don't seem to yield anything special.

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WonkyPanda
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby WonkyPanda » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:06 pm

Took PT 51 today and got a 169. I don't recall the breakdown (too lazy to check) but the raw was 87. I am just at 170's door and I want to come in!

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Cromartie
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby Cromartie » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:23 pm

Just got done with PT 53. For some reason, I felt off tonight and felt like I was in a haze while taking the test. I was very tempted to call it quits after LG, but forced myself to push on. I'm somewhat glad I did.

Results are:

LR1: -1 No. 8, chose E instead of D
LR2: -2 No. 9, changed my answer from E to D; No. 24, chose C instead of A.
LG: -0
RC: -0 I typically finish this section with 5 or so minutes to spare, but I barely had 20 seconds of extra time this time around. That mites/strawberries passage was somethine else, wasn't it?

Overall: 97/179

Haven't reviewed my wrong answers in detail yet, but I skimmed them and readily saw that my mistakes in LR2, especially no. 24, will require some analysis for me to understand why I got them wrong. As of now, I can't see how it pertains to a general principle supported by an example rather than a conclusion supported by an analogy.

Once again, I deprive myself of a 4th 180 score by changing an answer from the right to the wrong one. Oh well... will post again after my review.

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jfb
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby jfb » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:33 pm

Cromartie wrote:Just got done with PT 53. For some reason, I felt off tonight and felt like I was in a haze while taking the test. I was very tempted to call it quits after LG, but forced myself to push on. I'm somewhat glad I did.

Results are:

LR1: -1 No. 8, chose E instead of D
LR2: -2 No. 9, changed my answer from E to D; No. 24, chose C instead of A.
LG: -0
RC: -0 I typically finish this section with 5 or so minutes to spare, but I barely had 20 seconds of extra time this time around. That mites/strawberries passage was somethine else, wasn't it?

Overall: 97/179

Haven't reviewed my wrong answers in detail yet, but I skimmed them and readily saw that my mistakes in LR2, especially no. 24, will require some analysis for me to understand why I got them wrong. As of now, I can't see how it pertains to a general principle supported by an example rather than a conclusion supported by an analogy.

Once again, I deprive myself of a 4th 180 score by changing an answer from the right to the wrong one. Oh well... will post again after my review.


Care to share your strategy for RC, which is allowing you to finish with 5 or so mins to spare and end up with -0???

pt 43 today (I know not in the 50-60 range) 169 RC - 7 LR 1 -2 LR2 -1 LG -2
The bad news: RC - 7
The Good news: I know where I need to focus on improving before test day

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Hannibal
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby Hannibal » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:41 pm

Just checked the questions I got wrong on PT 52. 3/4 were stupid mistakes, one being a misbubble. A misbubble away from 180! I really need to check that.

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Cromartie
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby Cromartie » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:57 pm

Ok, I only did a quick review of the answers I got wrong.

LR1:

No. 8: It's so obvious now. I totally missed this one (went with E). On the bright side, I had circled the question, so my mistake was not due to carelessness. I just plain didn't get it.

LR2:

1) No. 9: Why E and not D? I found 2 things wrong with E. First, it says "many" people instead of "most"; the latter would have contrasted better with the premise that regular drinkers of the tea are more likely to develop kidney damage. "Many" is just weak, in my opinion. Also, the other beverages they consume are only "suspected" to cause kidney damage. "Suspected" is a very far cry from "known". Again, it just contributes to a weak answer choice. On the other hand, with D, if most people who drink the tea do not develop kidney damage, the argument is somewhat weakened. At least that's what I thought while tackling the question. On closer analysis, I realize that D, while valid in its own right, does not really attack the main premise of the argument that regular drinkers are more likely to develop kidney damage. Even if most people who drink the tea do not develop kidney damage, it could still be true that those who drink it regularly are more likely to develop kidney damage than those who don't.

2) No. 24: This I still don't get. Can someone explain why it's not a case of supporting a conclusion via an analogy rather than supporting a general principle through an example?

Finally, I can't really complain about the 1 answer I changed from right to wrong. A quick skim through the PT revealed 4 instances when I changed from the wrong to the right answers!

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Cromartie
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby Cromartie » Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:04 am

jfb wrote:
Cromartie wrote:Just got done with PT 53. For some reason, I felt off tonight and felt like I was in a haze while taking the test. I was very tempted to call it quits after LG, but forced myself to push on. I'm somewhat glad I did.

Results are:

LR1: -1 No. 8, chose E instead of D
LR2: -2 No. 9, changed my answer from E to D; No. 24, chose C instead of A.
LG: -0
RC: -0 I typically finish this section with 5 or so minutes to spare, but I barely had 20 seconds of extra time this time around. That mites/strawberries passage was somethine else, wasn't it?

Overall: 97/179

Haven't reviewed my wrong answers in detail yet, but I skimmed them and readily saw that my mistakes in LR2, especially no. 24, will require some analysis for me to understand why I got them wrong. As of now, I can't see how it pertains to a general principle supported by an example rather than a conclusion supported by an analogy.

Once again, I deprive myself of a 4th 180 score by changing an answer from the right to the wrong one. Oh well... will post again after my review.


Care to share your strategy for RC, which is allowing you to finish with 5 or so mins to spare and end up with -0???

pt 43 today (I know not in the 50-60 range) 169 RC - 7 LR 1 -2 LR2 -1 LG -2
The bad news: RC - 7
The Good news: I know where I need to focus on improving before test day


I wrote about my strategy in the thread below:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=121280&p=3373011#p3373011

Basically, I convert RC to an LR-esque format by creating a 1-to-1 relationship between each question and the specific section(s) of the passage where the answers are located (except for main point/main purpose questions, of course). When I initially read a passage, I don't read for detail. I just create a mental roadmap of the general theme of the passage and of each paragraph. As I tackle each question, I refer back to the appropriate section of the passage.

arean.ryan
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby arean.ryan » Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:05 am

Cromartie,

How do you maintain such mental stamina and and precision while staying under 35 minutes?!?

I know this is such a generic question, but it baffles me how someone can manage this so well...any insight on your personal strategy?

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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby birdlaw117 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:32 am

Cromartie wrote:Ok, I only did a quick review of the answers I got wrong.

LR1:

No. 8: It's so obvious now. I totally missed this one (went with E). On the bright side, I had circled the question, so my mistake was not due to carelessness. I just plain didn't get it.

LR2:

1) No. 9: Why E and not D? I found 2 things wrong with E. First, it says "many" people instead of "most"; the latter would have contrasted better with the premise that regular drinkers of the tea are more likely to develop kidney damage. "Many" is just weak, in my opinion. Also, the other beverages they consume are only "suspected" to cause kidney damage. "Suspected" is a very far cry from "known". Again, it just contributes to a weak answer choice. On the other hand, with D, if most people who drink the tea do not develop kidney damage, the argument is somewhat weakened. At least that's what I thought while tackling the question. On closer analysis, I realize that D, while valid in its own right, does not really attack the main premise of the argument that regular drinkers are more likely to develop kidney damage. Even if most people who drink the tea do not develop kidney damage, it could still be true that those who drink it regularly are more likely to develop kidney damage than those who don't.

2) No. 24: This I still don't get. Can someone explain why it's not a case of supporting a conclusion via an analogy rather than supporting a general principle through an example?

Finally, I can't really complain about the 1 answer I changed from right to wrong. A quick skim through the PT revealed 4 instances when I changed from the wrong to the right answers!

I just stumbled upon this topic and coincidentally took PT 53 today as well. I missed that same question (24). I too chose analogy rather than example, however upon further review the reasoning is quite frankly because it is an example rather than an analogy (I know, I'm so helpful right? Let me continue).

An analogy would be drawing a comparison between something similar in structure and using that as reasoning. An example is just something that is illustrative of a general principle. Hopefully that makes sense, if not just respond or PM me, but I feel like that won't be necessary.

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Cromartie
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby Cromartie » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:13 am

birdlaw117 wrote:
Cromartie wrote:Ok, I only did a quick review of the answers I got wrong.

LR1:

No. 8: It's so obvious now. I totally missed this one (went with E). On the bright side, I had circled the question, so my mistake was not due to carelessness. I just plain didn't get it.

LR2:

1) No. 9: Why E and not D? I found 2 things wrong with E. First, it says "many" people instead of "most"; the latter would have contrasted better with the premise that regular drinkers of the tea are more likely to develop kidney damage. "Many" is just weak, in my opinion. Also, the other beverages they consume are only "suspected" to cause kidney damage. "Suspected" is a very far cry from "known". Again, it just contributes to a weak answer choice. On the other hand, with D, if most people who drink the tea do not develop kidney damage, the argument is somewhat weakened. At least that's what I thought while tackling the question. On closer analysis, I realize that D, while valid in its own right, does not really attack the main premise of the argument that regular drinkers are more likely to develop kidney damage. Even if most people who drink the tea do not develop kidney damage, it could still be true that those who drink it regularly are more likely to develop kidney damage than those who don't.

2) No. 24: This I still don't get. Can someone explain why it's not a case of supporting a conclusion via an analogy rather than supporting a general principle through an example?

Finally, I can't really complain about the 1 answer I changed from right to wrong. A quick skim through the PT revealed 4 instances when I changed from the wrong to the right answers!

I just stumbled upon this topic and coincidentally took PT 53 today as well. I missed that same question (24). I too chose analogy rather than example, however upon further review the reasoning is quite frankly because it is an example rather than an analogy (I know, I'm so helpful right? Let me continue).

An analogy would be drawing a comparison between something similar in structure and using that as reasoning. An example is just something that is illustrative of a general principle. Hopefully that makes sense, if not just respond or PM me, but I feel like that won't be necessary.


You're absolutely right. It looks like an analogy at first glance, but it's really not. Damn you, LSAT tricksters!

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Cromartie
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby Cromartie » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:23 am

arean.ryan wrote:Cromartie,

How do you maintain such mental stamina and and precision while staying under 35 minutes?!?

I know this is such a generic question, but it baffles me how someone can manage this so well...any insight on your personal strategy?


See my post above for my strategy. Also, I am able to save some time up front by not reading the questions before I read the passage. This, in addition to the time I save by not reading the passage for detail, gives me a lot of time to attack each question by referring back to the appropriate section of the passage. This helps with the precision.

As for stamina, I've just always read a lot, and my job requires me to read a lot of codes, statutes, rulings and federal registers. If you think the LR and RC passages are dense, try reading the code of federal regulations sometime... :)

hulahoop
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby hulahoop » Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:28 pm

I missed 24 too (posted my results in a sep thread as I took it before most ppl on here). Someone responded to me that for it to be an analogy there has to be a "like, such as, etc" in the sentence. This makes perfect sense to me (and is a very simple way to determine the difference).

Cromartie - I do the same thing with RC, also usually finish with time to spare. However the passage about common law killed me (I actually liked the strawberry mites, lol). How the hell did you get #14? That was the only one I missed and its drivin me nuts.

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Cromartie
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby Cromartie » Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:51 pm

hulahoop wrote:I missed 24 too (posted my results in a sep thread as I took it before most ppl on here). Someone responded to me that for it to be an analogy there has to be a "like, such as, etc" in the sentence. This makes perfect sense to me (and is a very simple way to determine the difference).

Cromartie - I do the same thing with RC, also usually finish with time to spare. However the passage about common law killed me (I actually liked the strawberry mites, lol). How the hell did you get #14? That was the only one I missed and its drivin me nuts.


Yeah, the common law passage was pretty tough too, it was actually what initially caused me to fall behind time-wise. If not for the fact that the comparative reading passage was a complete giveaway that I just breezed through, I would have run out of time on the strawberry mites passage for sure.

I got no. 14 purely by POE, which is how I get all my answers for LR and RC. At first, I ended up crossing out all 5 answer choices, so I had to go through the choices again. For A, I didn't see the paradox immediately, but I saw how the "new view" part fit in with the last paragraph of the passage. For B, there really isn't any chronology given in the passage. The passage doesn't talk about any influential theorist either, it only talks about the views of a legal historian; so C was out. The passage does not contrast legal theories of the past with those of today, so D was out. It doesn't advocate a traditional school of thought (if anything, it criticizes it) and criticize a new trend either (what new trend?), so E was out. That left me with A. Then, I recognized that the last sentence of the first paragraph and the first sentence of second paragraph does in fact describe a paradox. Even if I hadn't recognized the paradox, I would've gone with A anyway, since it was the "least wrong" of all the choices.

I cannot even keep track of the number of times when I get the right answer, not because I understood it to be right, but because I found all the other answers to be more wrong. Of course, this approach does backfire on me sometimes, but very rarely (see my explanation for LR 2 no. 9 in my previous post).

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jwaters
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Re: Pt 50-60 September Crew. Enter Here

Postby jwaters » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:35 pm

Took PT 50 today......88 raw/168 scaled

RC -7
LR -3
LG -0
LR -2

I got to riddled basins and realized its the RC everyone complains about. As I was reading it I was like....whats the big deal I understand all of this. Then I got to the questions and knew 1, maybe 2 answers. Definitely the hardest RC passage I've done.




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