Foreigner cracking LSAT in 3 months? please help... Forum

[thexfactor]

There is actually a pretty high demand for lawyers who received a Chinese law degree on top of a JD.
With all the deals originating in Asia these days, it is hard for someone to know the laws both in China and the US. Furthermore, language skills also helps a lot. Being able to look over documents in Chinese def helps.
The better the school you go to, the more valuable you are. Furthermore, if you have a law degree in China + U.S. it will be pretty easy for you to get a job at a really nice law firm in China. So there are actually a decent amount of opportunities for Chinese lawyers coming to study in the U.S.

Im not sure how valuable you are without a law degree from China.

You can also "backdoor" your way in. Case and WUSTL has a LLM program for internationals with a law degree in their respective countries. After finishing the LLM, these two schools allow a large group of these students to transfer into the JD program.

[whymeohgodno]

whymeohgodno, jlhero and kazu: i've just finished 1st PT under timing and ugh-only 155. The funny thing is i actually scored higher in RC than in LG, and LG is said to be the only section that asians are remotely good at...
kazu, does the guy have receptive antennaes stuck to his head, or did the word "foreigner" in the post title gave it away? i'll just try to ignore him~

Don't sweat LG. It's the easiest to improve on and I'm sure you can master it within 3 months.

[thexfactor]

Let me ask you native chinese what future do you see as a law graduate in US as a non-US citizen? Do you know any law firm who will file H1B for you? Or your law school budget is 800,000 Yuan which equals to 100,000$ because 1 USD is equal to 8 yuan. How your employer will file a work visa petition before USCIS and DHS saying that Law firm doesn't have enough American Law Graduates who can be attorney and that's why we need this Chinaman. What is your exact plan? What is your status? Are you permanent resident?

hi, first of all I'm going to make this as friendly as possible, notwithstanding your obvious attitude shown.
My exact plan, if I'm following the law school route-like most of you on this board I guess. law school-firm-switch to in-house counsel around 5-6 years later-maybe move on to other plans or other career route as I also have interest in other professions.
Am I permanent resident-no. I'm a typical international student.
Why would a US firm hire me, or any Chinese, for that matter-because a number of firms have offices in other parts of the world, if you cared to notice. These branch offices hire Chinese attorneys for their mastery of Chinese, proficiency in English, and their connections in China. I've interned in the Beijing office of 2 biglaw firms, and at least from what I've seen all but 1 attorneys in total are Chinese.
And regarding the law school budget-I can only do what everyone does-go for a scholarship, or, without that, try a loan and pay it back after work. Also, the exchange rate of USD:RMB is around 6.8 now, but thanks for mentioning anyway.
just curious, I get the feeling that you're not a native american either from your writing. so why the hostility?

It s going to be hard to get a loan as an international student... at least in the U.S. As an international student, you need paperwork that proves you have xxx amount of money. Americans are afraid that you will skip town and live as an illegal immigrant. lol lol

It s going to be awfully tough to get that 170. I know some pretty smart cats at my school from Fudan... Beida and all they managed was a 162. These people there study HARD. Always at the library. Last ones to leave and the first ones to arrive....

What s your major in college? if it is science, you can do IP work.

I think you might be better off kicking ass on the GMATs and going to Michshitgan for MACC. Gmat is much more math/logics based as compared to the LSAT. You can prob do the math part in your sleep. The verbal part is very similar to the SATs and is kinda a watered down version of the lsats. You should be able to get a 750 without much trouble.

Let me know if you need any more info. PM me.

[whymeohgodno]

Let me ask you native chinese what future do you see as a law graduate in US as a non-US citizen? Do you know any law firm who will file H1B for you? Or your law school budget is 800,000 Yuan which equals to 100,000$ because 1 USD is equal to 8 yuan. How your employer will file a work visa petition before USCIS and DHS saying that Law firm doesn't have enough American Law Graduates who can be attorney and that's why we need this Chinaman. What is your exact plan? What is your status? Are you permanent resident?

hi, first of all I'm going to make this as friendly as possible, notwithstanding your obvious attitude shown.
My exact plan, if I'm following the law school route-like most of you on this board I guess. law school-firm-switch to in-house counsel around 5-6 years later-maybe move on to other plans or other career route as I also have interest in other professions.
Am I permanent resident-no. I'm a typical international student.
Why would a US firm hire me, or any Chinese, for that matter-because a number of firms have offices in other parts of the world, if you cared to notice. These branch offices hire Chinese attorneys for their mastery of Chinese, proficiency in English, and their connections in China. I've interned in the Beijing office of 2 biglaw firms, and at least from what I've seen all but 1 attorneys in total are Chinese.
And regarding the law school budget-I can only do what everyone does-go for a scholarship, or, without that, try a loan and pay it back after work. Also, the exchange rate of USD:RMB is around 6.8 now, but thanks for mentioning anyway.
just curious, I get the feeling that you're not a native american either from your writing. so why the hostility?

It s going to be hard to get a loan as an international student... at least in the U.S. As an international student, you need paperwork that proves you have xxx amount of money. Americans are afraid that you will skip town and live as an illegal immigrant. lol lol

It s going to be awfully tough to get that 170. I know some pretty smart cats at my school from Fudan... Beida and all they managed was a 162. These people there study HARD. Always at the library. Last ones to leave and the first ones to arrive....

What s your major in college? if it is science, you can do IP work.

I think you might be better off kicking ass on the GMATs and going to Michshitgan for MACC. Gmat is much more math/logics based as compared to the LSAT. You can prob do the math part in your sleep. The verbal part is very similar to the SATs and is kinda a watered down version of the lsats. You should be able to get a 750 without much trouble.

Let me know if you need any more info. PM me.

Why are you people so discouraging?

I really don't think English as a 2nd language is an obstacle that can't be overcome within reasonable time for the LSAT.

170 might depend on who the person is but scoring 165+ should be easily doable with hard work.

[vanwinkle]

why on earth is this guy not banned yet?
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1#p3196791
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4#p3257634
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 9#p3196809
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2#p3196752
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2#p3174412
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 7#p3155507

A good question, and one that no longer needs to be asked anymore.

[northkitty]

Let me ask you native chinese what future do you see as a law graduate in US as a non-US citizen? Do you know any law firm who will file H1B for you? Or your law school budget is 800,000 Yuan which equals to 100,000$ because 1 USD is equal to 8 yuan. How your employer will file a work visa petition before USCIS and DHS saying that Law firm doesn't have enough American Law Graduates who can be attorney and that's why we need this Chinaman. What is your exact plan? What is your status? Are you permanent resident?

hi, first of all I'm going to make this as friendly as possible, notwithstanding your obvious attitude shown.
My exact plan, if I'm following the law school route-like most of you on this board I guess. law school-firm-switch to in-house counsel around 5-6 years later-maybe move on to other plans or other career route as I also have interest in other professions.
Am I permanent resident-no. I'm a typical international student.
Why would a US firm hire me, or any Chinese, for that matter-because a number of firms have offices in other parts of the world, if you cared to notice. These branch offices hire Chinese attorneys for their mastery of Chinese, proficiency in English, and their connections in China. I've interned in the Beijing office of 2 biglaw firms, and at least from what I've seen all but 1 attorneys in total are Chinese.
And regarding the law school budget-I can only do what everyone does-go for a scholarship, or, without that, try a loan and pay it back after work. Also, the exchange rate of USD:RMB is around 6.8 now, but thanks for mentioning anyway.
just curious, I get the feeling that you're not a native american either from your writing. so why the hostility?

It s going to be hard to get a loan as an international student... at least in the U.S. As an international student, you need paperwork that proves you have xxx amount of money. Americans are afraid that you will skip town and live as an illegal immigrant. lol lol

It s going to be awfully tough to get that 170. I know some pretty smart cats at my school from Fudan... Beida and all they managed was a 162. These people there study HARD. Always at the library. Last ones to leave and the first ones to arrive....

What s your major in college? if it is science, you can do IP work.

I think you might be better off kicking ass on the GMATs and going to Michshitgan for MACC. Gmat is much more math/logics based as compared to the LSAT. You can prob do the math part in your sleep. The verbal part is very similar to the SATs and is kinda a watered down version of the lsats. You should be able to get a 750 without much trouble.

Let me know if you need any more info. PM me.

thexfactor, thanks for your thoughtfulness. PMed ya:)

[DEPT_JUSTICE]

Let me ask you native chinese what future do you see as a law graduate in US as a non-US citizen? Do you know any law firm who will file H1B for you? Or your law school budget is 800,000 Yuan which equals to 100,000$ because 1 USD is equal to 8 yuan. How your employer will file a work visa petition before USCIS and DHS saying that Law firm doesn't have enough American Law Graduates who can be attorney and that's why we need this Chinaman. What is your exact plan? What is your status? Are you permanent resident?

hi, first of all I'm going to make this as friendly as possible, notwithstanding your obvious attitude shown.
My exact plan, if I'm following the law school route-like most of you on this board I guess. law school-firm-switch to in-house counsel around 5-6 years later-maybe move on to other plans or other career route as I also have interest in other professions.
Am I permanent resident-no. I'm a typical international student.
Why would a US firm hire me, or any Chinese, for that matter-because a number of firms have offices in other parts of the world, if you cared to notice. These branch offices hire Chinese attorneys for their mastery of Chinese, proficiency in English, and their connections in China. I've interned in the Beijing office of 2 biglaw firms, and at least from what I've seen all but 1 attorneys in total are Chinese.
And regarding the law school budget-I can only do what everyone does-go for a scholarship, or, without that, try a loan and pay it back after work. Also, the exchange rate of USD:RMB is around 6.8 now, but thanks for mentioning anyway.
just curious, I get the feeling that you're not a native american either from your writing. so why the hostility?

It s going to be hard to get a loan as an international student... at least in the U.S. As an international student, you need paperwork that proves you have xxx amount of money. Americans are afraid that you will skip town and live as an illegal immigrant. lol lol

It s going to be awfully tough to get that 170. I know some pretty smart cats at my school from Fudan... Beida and all they managed was a 162. These people there study HARD. Always at the library. Last ones to leave and the first ones to arrive....

What s your major in college? if it is science, you can do IP work.

I think you might be better off kicking ass on the GMATs and going to Michshitgan for MACC. Gmat is much more math/logics based as compared to the LSAT. You can prob do the math part in your sleep. The verbal part is very similar to the SATs and is kinda a watered down version of the lsats. You should be able to get a 750 without much trouble.

Let me know if you need any more info. PM me.

Why are you people so discouraging?

I really don't think English as a 2nd language is an obstacle that can't be overcome within reasonable time for the LSAT.

170 might depend on who the person is but scoring 165+ should be easily doable with hard work.

Nobody is trying to discourage you from attending Law School in United States. Reality is that many applicants or test takers have no idea why they want to attend Law School. Especially the international students. They have no idea what they want to do?, why they want to do?, Where they see themselves after 7 years, they just want to leave thier native country which is not a good thing to do. They are very often influenced by the apparent reasons NOT the true cause to attend law school. For that reason thier explanation contains such phrases as - "Valuable Degree", "Move on to next career", "International Law firms are also hiring" etc When something is said in way that "X is also hiring Y therefore run behind to become Y" it is truly forcing a cause for others to believe. People are sometimes influenced by the life style, salaries of attorneys etc. Did you just see a movie in China where an Attorney was hero of Movie and he was successfully able to process his beloved's insurance claim and you were sitting in theatre with popcorn bag start imagining yourself as an Attorney? If that is the case then don't move anywhere just watch that movie 27 times and finally you will be better able to settle in customer service and restraunt industry.

[Nulli Secundus]

I think the above poster is that banned guy.

[ly2010]

Why are you people so discouraging?

I really don't think English as a 2nd language is an obstacle that can't be overcome within reasonable time for the LSAT.

170 might depend on who the person is but scoring 165+ should be easily doable with hard work.

I completely agree. I think you can do it. English is my third language (我也是中国人） (granted, I've lived here for a while), but I don't think it influences your performance on the LSAT that much. As long as you understand the basic logic, you'll be fine with a lot of practice. Your English doesn't seem bad at all...I'm amazed by it actually. I know a lot of Chinese students who have studied English for 10+ years and they are not even close to your level.

[094320]

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[Nom Sawyer]

Why are you people so discouraging?

I really don't think English as a 2nd language is an obstacle that can't be overcome within reasonable time for the LSAT.

170 might depend on who the person is but scoring 165+ should be easily doable with hard work.

I completely agree. I think you can do it. English is my third language (我也是中国人） (granted, I've lived here for a while), but I don't think it influences your performance on the LSAT that much. As long as you understand the basic logic, you'll be fine with a lot of practice. Your English doesn't seem bad at all...I'm amazed by it actually. I know a lot of Chinese students who have studied English for 10+ years and they are not even close to your level.

It really depends on what you are aiming for though.. English as a 2nd language still makes it very, very difficult to score in the 170s as improving your score in the final margins becomes tough.. just reading things slightly slower or taking a little longer to process a complex setup due to language difficulties all add up.

Its as he said about people practicing for years and only scoring say 162.. definitely a decent score but not what they are shooting for. Still I'm amazed by Chinese students doing so well. Chinese is my 2nd language and, though I can speak it fluently, if I had to do a test like the LSAT in Chinese i'd probably end up with a 150.

[094320]

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[ly2010]

It really depends on your level of English proficiency in regards to reading. There are a lot of foreigners I know who can speak and write English just fine, but who are just slow at reading. The same can be said for native English speakers---reading speed is a skill that you really need a lot of practice to become quick at (and that decays if you don't read a lot) and foreigners have the disadvantage of fewer years reading and that is a problem in a time-pressured test. That said, It's not impossible, it just depends a lot on the individual, where they're starting at, and the time they have to get to where they are. To the OP, it sounds like you've got the materials you need and while I can't speak to your reading speed, your proficiency on here seems on par for where you need to be in terms of comprehension. Best of luck.

Yeah, for me, I think RC is just about organizing information in your head while reading and being able to comprehend the basic arguments. Obv. adding the language barrier will make it more difficult to understand already dense material. However, in my opinion, after reading the tread, I feel that Northkitty’s English is proficient enough to be able to do that (no less successfully than someone who has been here for longer). A majority of the biology pre/med students at my university are foreigners. They took the MCAT and completely annihilated the test getting 38+ scores. They have a RC section on there too.

[ly2010]

Why are you people so discouraging?

I really don't think English as a 2nd language is an obstacle that can't be overcome within reasonable time for the LSAT.

170 might depend on who the person is but scoring 165+ should be easily doable with hard work.

I completely agree. I think you can do it. English is my third language (我也是中国人） (granted, I've lived here for a while), but I don't think it influences your performance on the LSAT that much. As long as you understand the basic logic, you'll be fine with a lot of practice. Your English doesn't seem bad at all...I'm amazed by it actually. I know a lot of Chinese students who have studied English for 10+ years and they are not even close to your level.

It really depends on what you are aiming for though.. English as a 2nd language still makes it very, very difficult to score in the 170s as improving your score in the final margins becomes tough.. just reading things slightly slower or taking a little longer to process a complex setup due to language difficulties all add up.

Its as he said about people practicing for years and only scoring say 162.. definitely a decent score but not what they are shooting for. Still I'm amazed by Chinese students doing so well. Chinese is my 2nd language and, though I can speak it fluently, if I had to do a test like the LSAT in Chinese i'd probably end up with a 150.

Since English is my third language, I should give up on trying to get a perfect score, then? Trust me, 学中文比学英文难得多。

[Veyron]

You probably won't be able to get sufficient loans for study in the US as a non-citizen since you can't get gov loans.

[Nom Sawyer]

It really depends on your level of English proficiency in regards to reading. There are a lot of foreigners I know who can speak and write English just fine, but who are just slow at reading. The same can be said for native English speakers---reading speed is a skill that you really need a lot of practice to become quick at (and that decays if you don't read a lot) and foreigners have the disadvantage of fewer years reading and that is a problem in a time-pressured test. That said, It's not impossible, it just depends a lot on the individual, where they're starting at, and the time they have to get to where they are. To the OP, it sounds like you've got the materials you need and while I can't speak to your reading speed, your proficiency on here seems on par for where you need to be in terms of comprehension. Best of luck.

Yeah, for me, I think RC is just about organizing information in your head while reading and being able to comprehend the basic arguments. Obv. adding the language barrier will make it more difficult to understand already dense material. However, in my opinion, after reading the tread, I feel that Northkitty’s English is proficient enough to be able to do that (no less successfully than someone who has been here for longer). A majority of the biology pre/med students at my university are foreigners. They took the MCAT and completely annihilated the test getting 38+ scores. They have a RC section on there too.

I think the thing with the MCAT is that enough of it is based on memorizing and applying specific information... thus at least half of the work for the MCAT is studying enough of it to demonstrate more of a mastery over a wide range of subjects compared to other test takers.

In that kind of scenario many Asian students (either culture driven or derived from the more memory intense Asian school systems) have a higher chance of scoring an exceptional MCAT score as compared to an LSAT score.

[094320]

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[ly2010]

Xue zhong when bi xue ying wen nan de duo? Is that nan? I'm not sure. And omg I can't believe I can still read that.

I am very impressed That's right Nan = hard

[094320]

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[ly2010]

Xue zhong when bi xue ying wen nan de duo? Is that nan? I'm not sure. And omg I can't believe I can still read that.

I am very impressed That's right Nan = hard

Yayyy. Edited it up there, but: 我想 写 中文比 英文难得多, 可是 说 英文 比 中文 难得多。

ETA: I took Chinese in middle school. So it's been a while.

真的吗？你觉得说英文呢么难？我在瑞典带了十二年。来美国一年就说英文说得很好。我认识很多人学说中文学了五年还不会说！
(you really think learning to speak English is that hard? I will PM the conversation so we're not wasting space...)

[Nom Sawyer]

Why are you people so discouraging?

I really don't think English as a 2nd language is an obstacle that can't be overcome within reasonable time for the LSAT.

170 might depend on who the person is but scoring 165+ should be easily doable with hard work.

I completely agree. I think you can do it. English is my third language (我也是中国人） (granted, I've lived here for a while), but I don't think it influences your performance on the LSAT that much. As long as you understand the basic logic, you'll be fine with a lot of practice. Your English doesn't seem bad at all...I'm amazed by it actually. I know a lot of Chinese students who have studied English for 10+ years and they are not even close to your level.

It really depends on what you are aiming for though.. English as a 2nd language still makes it very, very difficult to score in the 170s as improving your score in the final margins becomes tough.. just reading things slightly slower or taking a little longer to process a complex setup due to language difficulties all add up.

Its as he said about people practicing for years and only scoring say 162.. definitely a decent score but not what they are shooting for. Still I'm amazed by Chinese students doing so well. Chinese is my 2nd language and, though I can speak it fluently, if I had to do a test like the LSAT in Chinese i'd probably end up with a 150.

Since English is my third language, I should give up on trying to get a perfect score, then? Trust me, 学中文比学英文难得多。

haha your English is much, much better than my Chinese and I'd definitely suggest you shoot for a perfect score... Just saying your accomplishment will be much more impressive then mine. 我也觉得中文比英文难得多。我又一个中文学位然后常常回中国可是我中文还是不太好。

[Nulli Secundus]

I don't think LSAT is any more problematic than any other exam once you get to know the question types, regardless of your native language. But as a guideline for foreigners, get your TOEFL Reading score to 30, then start studying for LSAT (I am a foreigner as well, 115 TOEFL IBT -1 writing, -4 speaking)

[094320]

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[vanwinkle]

A bunch of crap

Banned.

[094320]

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