Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

locthebloke
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Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby locthebloke » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:06 pm

Say you just aren't fast enough at the games even after trying and trying to get better. The 3/4 strategy is commonplace, but couldn't a 2/4 be completely viable if you are extremely good at Reading Comprehension and Logical Reasoning? Doing 2 out of 4 would give you about 18 minutes on each game which is certainly a good amount of time to get almost all if not all of the questions correct.

So say you kicked butt on the Logical Reasoning, kicked butt on the Reading Comprehension, and kicked butt on 2/4 games given the extra time you gave yourself, guessing on the 2 other games. Optimistically, you'd get like 15% of the questions right on the other 2 by guessing.

I ask the following as a frame of reference: Say you got 100% of the LR, 100% of the RC, 100% of 2/4 LG, and 0% of 2/4 LG questions correct. What would your LSAT score end up as? I would imagine quite good, no?

Obviously I would not get 100% of those sections right, but is 2/4 a viable strategy if you are extremely good at LR and RC and not that good at LGs?

Thanks!

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OrdinarilySkilled
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby OrdinarilySkilled » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:13 pm

Not a viable strategy because if it takes you 18 mins to do a logic game you most likely got those questions wrong also.

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yzero1
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby yzero1 » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:21 pm

locthebloke wrote:Say you just aren't fast enough at the games even after trying and trying to get better. The 3/4 strategy is commonplace, but couldn't a 2/4 be completely viable if you are extremely good at Reading Comprehension and Logical Reasoning? Doing 2 out of 4 would give you about 18 minutes on each game which is certainly a good amount of time to get almost all if not all of the questions correct.

So say you kicked butt on the Logical Reasoning, kicked butt on the Reading Comprehension, and kicked butt on 2/4 games given the extra time you gave yourself, guessing on the 2 other games. Optimistically, you'd get like 15% of the questions right on the other 2 by guessing.

I ask the following as a frame of reference: Say you got 100% of the LR, 100% of the RC, 100% of 2/4 LG, and 0% of 2/4 LG questions correct. What would your LSAT score end up as? I would imagine quite good, no?

Obviously I would not get 100% of those sections right, but is 2/4 a viable strategy if you are extremely good at LR and RC and not that good at LGs?

Thanks!


That would depend on the score range you are shooting for. Obviously it's a no for 170+, but I think it would be difficult to even hit 160. However, if you are certain you can get 95-100% of LR and RC right, then theoretically you can get a pretty good score (165+). I wouldn't recommend it though, because if you can nail down LR and RC, you can nail down LG, which is the easiest to improve on. Why settle for a 160 when you can get a 175+?

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acrossthelake
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby acrossthelake » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:22 pm

locthebloke wrote:Say you just aren't fast enough at the games even after trying and trying to get better. The 3/4 strategy is commonplace, but couldn't a 2/4 be completely viable if you are extremely good at Reading Comprehension and Logical Reasoning? Doing 2 out of 4 would give you about 18 minutes on each game which is certainly a good amount of time to get almost all if not all of the questions correct.

So say you kicked butt on the Logical Reasoning, kicked butt on the Reading Comprehension, and kicked butt on 2/4 games given the extra time you gave yourself, guessing on the 2 other games. Optimistically, you'd get like 15% of the questions right on the other 2 by guessing.

I ask the following as a frame of reference: Say you got 100% of the LR, 100% of the RC, 100% of 2/4 LG, and 0% of 2/4 LG questions correct. What would your LSAT score end up as? I would imagine quite good, no?

Obviously I would not get 100% of those sections right, but is 2/4 a viable strategy if you are extremely good at LR and RC and not that good at LGs?

Thanks!


Depends what you define as "quite good". You're sacrificing about 11-12 questions---you're assuming your random guesses help out, but you also assume that you nail 100% on the other sections, so I'll give you the latter, but eliminate the former. You won't break 170, though you might manage the upper 160s. Still, LG is the easiest section to improve on, so it seems like a waste if you can get 100% on the other two and give up on LG like that.

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Anaconda
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby Anaconda » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:40 pm

Even if you were aiming for a 160, this would be a terrible strategy. Most tests have at least 1-2 fairly easy games. There's no reason these should be taking you ~18 minutes each. If you were saying "let me do the easiest 3 and skip the hardest game" that would be legitimate, but even then you should at least attempt all four.

Get the logic games bible.

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TommyK
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby TommyK » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:43 pm

Sure, if you get 100% on the other two sections, guess on 12 questions, and say you get 2 of those - that would be about a 170 on the June LSAT.

That being said, I've never heard of somebody who could nail 100% on RC & LR, but could only get thru half the games.

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Anaconda
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby Anaconda » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:48 pm

I think the assumption can be made that the OP just doesn't know how to attack the games. OP, once you learn how to do them, the timing will naturally come down the more and more you try, and you'll be getting much higher accuracy in a matter of a month. Don't let LGs intimidate you - they were my main concern when I first started studying, but they're now very low on my priority list! I think the same can be said for many others on TLS.

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kazu
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby kazu » Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:28 pm

Yeah.. keep practicing. There's 2 months left until October - you shouldn't already be giving up on LG, there's still time and LG is the one section where drastic score improvements is possible and probable.

locthebloke
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby locthebloke » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:17 pm

Thank you for the input everyone. I started reading the LG Bible tonight. I am not signed up to take the test in October. I will probably take it February, actually. So I guess I shouldn't be too worried about not getting the hang of it. I will take the advice given to me, but it seems odd that a 3/4 is a viable strategy while 2/4 isn't if you think it's absolutely necessary. Because it's only a difference of about 6 questions less being guessed on. If you give yourself 17 minutes on two games there is no excuse not to get 100% of those questions right. So out of the 24 let's figure you'll probably get a total of 16 right factoring the guesses on the other 2 sets. If you absolutely kick butt on the LR and RC (say, 6 wrong on the two LR combined and 4 wrong on RC for a grand total of 26 wrong on the whole test), I don't see how you couldn't get like a 165 (like 85% questions right), which is a very good score and can give you a good shot at just about anywhere but Chicago, Standford and the Ives. I mean, by comparison, an average 151 is about 45 questions wrong.

I'm not saying I'm not going to study my hardest and give it my all, but even if I did do all the logic games after studying through for a few months the chances of me getting a 170+ are very slim anyway. It's like the 93rd percentile and only about 1.5% of test takers score 170 or above.

Please don't get me wrong. I am studying to do all 4 games. I am not at all dead set on this strategy, I'm just saying it seems viable if I get desperate.

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pkpop
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby pkpop » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:25 pm

Anaconda wrote:Even if you were aiming for a 160, this would be a terrible strategy. Most tests have at least 1-2 fairly easy games.


+1 I'd say at least give yourself the last 5 minutes to attempt the List questions or really simple inference ones on the other two games before you resort to guessing on the rest. Don't throw away points you could get by taking 30 seconds to eliminate some rules.

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kazu
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby kazu » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:27 pm

While 165 is a "decent" score, this is TLS - top law schools. It's geared towards people shooting for at least the T14. 165 will definitely not get you into T14 w/o URM status or Nobel-prize-level softs, and based on your GPA might barely get you into the top 20.

Plus, it's the first time I've heard that 3/4 is a viable strategy.

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beachbum
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby beachbum » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:28 pm

locthebloke wrote:Thank you for the input everyone. I started reading the LG Bible tonight. I am not signed up to take the test in October. I will probably take it February, actually. So I guess I shouldn't be too worried about not getting the hang of it. I will take the advice given to me, but it seems odd that a 3/4 is a viable strategy while 2/4 isn't if you think it's absolutely necessary. Because it's only a difference of about 6 questions less being guessed on. If you give yourself 17 minutes on two games there is no excuse not to get 100% of those questions right. So out of the 24 let's figure you'll probably get a total of 16 right factoring the guesses on the other 2 sets. If you absolutely kick butt on the LR and RC (say, 6 wrong on the two LR combined and 4 wrong on RC for a grand total of 26 wrong on the whole test), I don't see how you couldn't get like a 165 (like 85% questions right), which is a very good score and can give you a good shot at just about anywhere but Chicago, Standford and the Ives. I mean, by comparison, an average 151 is about 45 questions wrong.

I'm not saying I'm not going to study my hardest and give it my all, but even if I did do all the logic games after studying through for a few months the chances of me getting a 170+ are very slim anyway. It's like the 93rd percentile and only about 1.5% of test takers score 170 or above.

Please don't get me wrong. I am studying to do all 4 games. I am not at all dead set on this strategy, I'm just saying it seems viable if I get desperate.


Good luck at Standford.

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Anaconda
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby Anaconda » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:33 pm

kazu wrote:While 165 is a "decent" score, this is TLS - top law schools. It's geared towards people shooting for at least the T14. 165 will definitely not get you into T14 w/o URM status or Nobel-prize-level softs, and based on your GPA might barely get you into the top 20.

Plus, it's the first time I've heard that 3/4 is a viable strategy.


When did he mention his GPA?

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kazu
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby kazu » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:34 pm

Anaconda wrote:
kazu wrote:While 165 is a "decent" score, this is TLS - top law schools. It's geared towards people shooting for at least the T14. 165 will definitely not get you into T14 w/o URM status or Nobel-prize-level softs, and based on your GPA might barely get you into the top 20.

Plus, it's the first time I've heard that 3/4 is a viable strategy.


When did he mention his GPA?


Sorry, meant to say "depending on your GPA".

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Anaconda
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby Anaconda » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:38 pm

kazu wrote:
Anaconda wrote:
kazu wrote:While 165 is a "decent" score, this is TLS - top law schools. It's geared towards people shooting for at least the T14. 165 will definitely not get you into T14 w/o URM status or Nobel-prize-level softs, and based on your GPA might barely get you into the top 20.

Plus, it's the first time I've heard that 3/4 is a viable strategy.


When did he mention his GPA?


Sorry, meant to say "depending on your GPA".


Oh I was searching for it and I thought either my RC is terrible or you were being extremely sarcastic which isn't like you. :P

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kazu
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby kazu » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:44 pm

Anaconda wrote:
kazu wrote:
Anaconda wrote:
kazu wrote:While 165 is a "decent" score, this is TLS - top law schools. It's geared towards people shooting for at least the T14. 165 will definitely not get you into T14 w/o URM status or Nobel-prize-level softs, and based on your GPA might barely get you into the top 20.

Plus, it's the first time I've heard that 3/4 is a viable strategy.


When did he mention his GPA?


Sorry, meant to say "depending on your GPA".


Oh I was searching for it and I thought either my RC is terrible or you were being extremely sarcastic which isn't like you. :P


:lol: Your RC's fine, don't worry :P

da87
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby da87 » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:50 pm

If you absolutely can't attempt all 4 games and do the 3/4 strategy, then guess "D" for every question you completely guess on. In the back of the logic games bible it explains that guessing "D" on the logic games is always the best one to guess. I did this and got 3 questions right on the 4th game...not bad for blind guessing in my opinion.

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Jack Smirks
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby Jack Smirks » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:58 pm

da87 wrote:If you absolutely can't attempt all 4 games and do the 3/4 strategy, then guess "D" for every question you completely guess on. In the back of the logic games bible it explains that guessing "D" on the logic games is always the best one to guess. I did this and got 3 questions right on the 4th game...not bad for blind guessing in my opinion.

If OP is only doing 3 games he should take a split second to figure out which 3 he can do, and the 4th game might be one that he completes. What statistics do you have for games 1, 2, and 3. Also, can you maybe break it down question by question. OP could definitely benefit from knowing the history of TCR's for every question on every LSAT games section. ever.

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downing
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby downing » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:01 pm

I don't think it's a good idea, and it's definitely not safe, to assume you'll get 100% on the other portions of the LSAT, even if it's meant to justify completing only 1/2 of the logic games section. I'd just keep on trying to trim off minutes; though you're taking it in Feb so you have quite a lot of time. Personally I'm a bit slow on the LG too, though my accuracy is spot on. I usually finish all the way up to the 4th game before the time remaining starts to become threatening.

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jfb
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby jfb » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:25 pm

I just finished a pt and bombed the lg section (-11), but still scored a 169. While it is possible to get a reasonably high score while only successfully completing 2 games, I would certainly not endorse it as a strategy. Shoot for 3/4 at least. With months left you would be shorting yourself if you were content with getting through 2 perfectly. Give yourself some breathing room for rc and lr.

Better to take my route: shoot for four, finish 3, bomb one, and guess the worst letter you could on another...yes

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Lawquacious
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby Lawquacious » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:35 pm

Entirely depends on the score you are aiming for- this strategy would pretty much exclude the possibility of a 170+. I am a believer in finding the approach that works best for the individual though- if approaching the test aiming to accurately complete two of the games at the expense of some of the other section questions helps you score to the best of your ability I say go for it.

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Provocateur
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby Provocateur » Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:28 am

locthebloke wrote:It's like the 93rd percentile and only about 1.5% of test takers score 170 or above.



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

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acrossthelake
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby acrossthelake » Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:48 am

Provocateur wrote:
locthebloke wrote:It's like the 93rd percentile and only about 1.5% of test takers score 170 or above.



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


LOL. Good thing locthebloke isn't an accountant, right?

fosterp
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby fosterp » Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:34 am

Planning to guess skip one LG is viable if you come to your test date and you feel you aren't at the level to get all four games. Generally the first is cakewalk, second only mildly harder, and third usually being the hardest, and the last sort of depends on how hard the third and second one was. Generally, from my one person anecdotal experience in prepping so far, when the third one seems really hard, the last one seems pretty easy, almost a "gimme" game. However, when the third one is only moderately challenging, the last one seems to be just as moderately challenging. Sometimes I feel the trend in other sections two, lots of easy with lots of really really hard ones, or some easy, and a bunch of 4's with very few fives.

Either way aiming for 2/4 seems to be setting the bar *way* to low for yourself, considering you think you are going to get 100% on LR and RC. If you can do that well on the other sections then you are very well smart enough to do 4/4 games. I really doubt the kind of thinking is that much different across sections that you can really find it to be that much harder than the others.

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TommyK
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Re: Doing 2/4 Logic Games. Could it really be a viable strategy?

Postby TommyK » Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:17 am

acrossthelake wrote:
Provocateur wrote:
locthebloke wrote:It's like the 93rd percentile and only about 1.5% of test takers score 170 or above.



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


LOL. Good thing locthebloke isn't an accountant, right?


Wait, what's the problem with Locthebloke's comment here? I mean, there's a bit of a pronoun / antecedent ambiguity, but through context clues, it's pretty clear that he's not saying that a 170 is in the 93rd percentile & only 1.5% get better than that. He's saying a 165 is in the 93rd percentile. AND a 170 is gotten by 1.5% of the test takers.




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