PT #31 LG (Game 2)

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DrackedaryMaster
Posts: 181
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:11 pm

PT #31 LG (Game 2)

Postby DrackedaryMaster » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:17 am

After having some decent success on the games, I ran into a brick wall that was the CD game. Although some folks have complained about game 4 as well, I didn't find that one nearly as frustrating as the CD's. When I looked at this game, I thought it was going to be an In/Out like the birds/forest game, and that I could somehow link the contrapositives that would lead to some type of chain to determine the possibilities. So much for reason.

It seems like I wrote the contrapositives out for no apparent reason, and because I'm biased in looking for some kind of chain, I failed to see that the questions were really set up where simple rule elimination without any contrapositive diagramming was all that was needed. The panic set in though, and I had to stop the time on this one.

Q7 (Like usual, the easy 1-by-1 rule elimination to get TCR)
Q8 (Easy from using the first cond. reasoning rule, pretty straightforward)
Q9 (I could not find any deduction connection here from rule combinations, other than the testmakers wanted to see how many people missed the word "new" and hastily choose C over TCR)
Q10/Q11 (When I first looked at these, I thought I missed a rule with something related to opera given so many choices in 10. I wish I had figured that out earlier, because I would have seen the basic link between cond. rules #1 and #3)
Q12 (Amazing, another question about the same basic link between cond rules #1 and #3)
Q13 (The question tests the last cond. rule since based on the question, US or UR cant be in at the same time)

okay, all fine and dandy now that I've figured it out, but it would have been nice to have gotten this a little earlier. It almost seems like diagramming the contrapositive did nothing but waste time. Any ideas on how to recognize games like this or how to diagram them? Are there any modern games like this?

rklafehn
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 6:59 pm

Re: PT #31 LG (Game 2)

Postby rklafehn » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:36 am

No modern game is like this one. It was tough, to be sure.

nStiver
Posts: 388
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Re: PT #31 LG (Game 2)

Postby nStiver » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:59 am

Check this out. This guy has a list of what he considers the ten hardest logic games of all time, and the CD game is on there. I made a point of printing out 3 copies of each of them and am trying to master them all one by one (my lsat PDF library is so convenient, hats off to cambridge). If you have the Powerscore set up guide they have a decent explanation of this one as well.

This game is a pain in the ass, to be sure. However, I wouldn't go so far as to say that no modern game is like this one. There are elements of this game that are common to many in-out/grouping games. Besides, these extra difficult, unusual games are good to practice. One must be able to improvise on test day in case LSAC decides to throw some weird ass shit our way again, like the Dino Game.

To the OP, I will have to try and use simple rule elimination on this one. When I did it I basically plowed through it after writing out each and every CP.

P.S. this guy has some interesting stuff on his blog from time to time.

http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/ha ... -hard.html

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Chris_cpb
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:03 pm

Re: PT #31 LG (Game 2)

Postby Chris_cpb » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:08 am

nStiver wrote:Check this out. This guy has a list of what he considers the ten hardest logic games of all time, and the CD game is on there. I made a point of printing out 3 copies of each of them and am trying to master them all one by one (my lsat PDF library is so convenient, hats off to cambridge). If you have the Powerscore set up guide they have a decent explanation of this one as well.

This game is a pain in the ass, to be sure. However, I wouldn't go so far as to say that no modern game is like this one. These extra difficult, unusual games are good to practice. One must be able to improvise on test day in case LSAC decides to throw some weird ass shit our way again, like the Dino Game.

To the OP, I will have to try and use simple rule elimination on this one. When I did it I basically plowed through it after writing out each and every CP.

P.S. this guy has some interesting stuff on his blog from time to time.

http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/ha ... -hard.html


This is pretty interesting. Out of curiosity, on a scale of 1-10 how would you rate a randomly selected game out of this guy's top 10 in comparison to a game which falls under the category of "tiered ordering".

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AverageTutoring
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:18 pm

Re: PT #31 LG (Game 2)

Postby AverageTutoring » Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:26 am

Chris_cpb wrote:
nStiver wrote:Check this out. This guy has a list of what he considers the ten hardest logic games of all time, and the CD game is on there. I made a point of printing out 3 copies of each of them and am trying to master them all one by one (my lsat PDF library is so convenient, hats off to cambridge). If you have the Powerscore set up guide they have a decent explanation of this one as well.

This game is a pain in the ass, to be sure. However, I wouldn't go so far as to say that no modern game is like this one. These extra difficult, unusual games are good to practice. One must be able to improvise on test day in case LSAC decides to throw some weird ass shit our way again, like the Dino Game.

To the OP, I will have to try and use simple rule elimination on this one. When I did it I basically plowed through it after writing out each and every CP.

P.S. this guy has some interesting stuff on his blog from time to time.

http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/ha ... -hard.html


This is pretty interesting. Out of curiosity, on a scale of 1-10 how would you rate a randomly selected game out of this guy's top 10 in comparison to a game which falls under the category of "tiered ordering".


Personally I think Steve was out of his mind when he wrote that top 10. There are many games that are much more challenging then the ones he mentions; also, there is no way the listed games from PT 22 and PT 25 should be 1 and 2, respectively.

To your comparison between his top 10 and a tiered game...tiered games typically have a lot of rules, are somewhat tricky to set up but are very conducive to deductions. Tiered ordering games always, always, always have deductions that make the game by so much quicker.

His top 10 would probably be harder then the average tiered game (on average....). If you don't make the deductions though, you're in for a rough 35 minutes.

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Anaconda
Posts: 610
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: PT #31 LG (Game 2)

Postby Anaconda » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:08 pm

AverageTutoring wrote:
Chris_cpb wrote:
nStiver wrote:Check this out. This guy has a list of what he considers the ten hardest logic games of all time, and the CD game is on there. I made a point of printing out 3 copies of each of them and am trying to master them all one by one (my lsat PDF library is so convenient, hats off to cambridge). If you have the Powerscore set up guide they have a decent explanation of this one as well.

This game is a pain in the ass, to be sure. However, I wouldn't go so far as to say that no modern game is like this one. These extra difficult, unusual games are good to practice. One must be able to improvise on test day in case LSAC decides to throw some weird ass shit our way again, like the Dino Game.

To the OP, I will have to try and use simple rule elimination on this one. When I did it I basically plowed through it after writing out each and every CP.

P.S. this guy has some interesting stuff on his blog from time to time.

http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/ha ... -hard.html


This is pretty interesting. Out of curiosity, on a scale of 1-10 how would you rate a randomly selected game out of this guy's top 10 in comparison to a game which falls under the category of "tiered ordering".


Personally I think Steve was out of his mind when he wrote that top 10. There are many games that are much more challenging then the ones he mentions; also, there is no way the listed games from PT 22 and PT 25 should be 1 and 2, respectively.

To your comparison between his top 10 and a tiered game...tiered games typically have a lot of rules, are somewhat tricky to set up but are very conducive to deductions. Tiered ordering games always, always, always have deductions that make the game by so much quicker.

His top 10 would probably be harder then the average tiered game (on average....). If you don't make the deductions though, you're in for a rough 35 minutes.


His list was in chronological order, not in order of difficulty. 8)

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AverageTutoring
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:18 pm

Re: PT #31 LG (Game 2)

Postby AverageTutoring » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:54 pm

Haha oops! :mrgreen:

I still contend that Steve was smoking something because the games I mentioned wouldn't be in my top 20. Though I'm glad he included the Snakes game. It's actually not a very hard game but to diagram it is very, very difficult.

nStiver
Posts: 388
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:15 am

Re: PT #31 LG (Game 2)

Postby nStiver » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:01 pm

I don't know man, they seem pretty rough to me.

rklafehn
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 6:59 pm

Re: PT #31 LG (Game 2)

Postby rklafehn » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:20 pm

4, 5, 7, 9. Those are the toughest on that list IMO.

The seats on the bus one is the toughest of them all! Dinos was easy! The CD game has so many more conditional rules than the Dinos game or any other modern in / out game. This was why I said there is no modern game that resembles it.




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