LG practice: repeat or do new ones?

Mr. Berns
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LG practice: repeat or do new ones?

Postby Mr. Berns » Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:06 am

So I'm (re)taking in October and LG continues to be the main spectre haunting my dreams of success. My recent standard deviation is centered at about -8 and I want to get that down to -2. I'm very hopeful about how much more practice I will put in the next 2+ months, but I'm also not sure that I will get to every game ever, although that may be something to shoot for.

To those people who have seen similar improvements:
Do you think it's better to repeat some subset of problems (esp. focusing on those that have given you trouble), or not worry about repeating and just get to as many games as possible? I guess what I'm asking is if people have improved by doing new variations on the same types of problems, or does practice make perfect (like practicing a musical piece)?

Thanks!

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Anaconda
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Re: LG practice: repeat or do new ones?

Postby Anaconda » Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:37 am

Mr. Berns wrote:So I'm (re)taking in October and LG continues to be the main spectre haunting my dreams of success. My recent standard deviation is centered at about -8 and I want to get that down to -2. I'm very hopeful about how much more practice I will put in the next 2+ months, but I'm also not sure that I will get to every game ever, although that may be something to shoot for.

To those people who have seen similar improvements:
Do you think it's better to repeat some subset of problems (esp. focusing on those that have given you trouble), or not worry about repeating and just get to as many games as possible? I guess what I'm asking is if people have improved by doing new variations on the same types of problems, or does practice make perfect (like practicing a musical piece)?

Thanks!


If you do 4 a day, you'll easily be able to do every single one. Only takes 35 minutes a day. :)

Mr. Berns
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Re: LG practice: repeat or do new ones?

Postby Mr. Berns » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:02 am

Well, that was not exactly the answer I was looking for, but thanks for the motivation by shaming! :D

Sandro
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Re: LG practice: repeat or do new ones?

Postby Sandro » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:02 pm

Mr. Berns wrote:So I'm (re)taking in October and LG continues to be the main spectre haunting my dreams of success. My recent standard deviation is centered at about -8 and I want to get that down to -2. I'm very hopeful about how much more practice I will put in the next 2+ months, but I'm also not sure that I will get to every game ever, although that may be something to shoot for.

To those people who have seen similar improvements:
Do you think it's better to repeat some subset of problems (esp. focusing on those that have given you trouble), or not worry about repeating and just get to as many games as possible? I guess what I'm asking is if people have improved by doing new variations on the same types of problems, or does practice make perfect (like practicing a musical piece)?

Thanks!


Same here. Retaking in October, at around -8/-10 on LGs (do a lot better on newer ones though usually). I'm starting to do a bunch of games every day, trying to figure out how many I should do / repeat

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3|ink
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Re: LG practice: repeat or do new ones?

Postby 3|ink » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:15 pm

Mr. Berns wrote:So I'm (re)taking in October and LG continues to be the main spectre haunting my dreams of success. My recent standard deviation is centered at about -8 and I want to get that down to -2. I'm very hopeful about how much more practice I will put in the next 2+ months, but I'm also not sure that I will get to every game ever, although that may be something to shoot for.

To those people who have seen similar improvements:
Do you think it's better to repeat some subset of problems (esp. focusing on those that have given you trouble), or not worry about repeating and just get to as many games as possible? I guess what I'm asking is if people have improved by doing new variations on the same types of problems, or does practice make perfect (like practicing a musical piece)?

Thanks!


Before doing any LGs, make sure you read some material on it. The LG bible is praised by almost everyone who uses it.

To answer your question most directly, I would not necessarily recommend repeating LGs within less than two months. Instead, go over the games you messed up on until you see what you could have done to achieve the deductions more easily. There are a total of 60 pts out there now. That's 60 LG sections and 240 games. That's more than enough to keep you busy until October.

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AverageTutoring
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Re: LG practice: repeat or do new ones?

Postby AverageTutoring » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:23 pm

I have done, re-done and re-done again every game I have ever set eyes on.

The first time I complete a game I am concerned with accuracy and time. In most cases, I end up forcing my way through a game more then I need to. The second time around I complete the game untimed to see how much more efficient I could have been.

I ask myself: what inferences didn't I make, what hypotheticals did I make that were not necessary, was there an easier way to complete this game, could i enhance my diagram in any way, etc? The reason for this is that most games, if you note the proper inferences and draw the most efficient diagram, can be done in under 3-4 minutes without a problem. If we can note how this is accomplished upon second revision we stand a better chance of doing it right the first time.

For the third time, I wait a few weeks so that the rules arn't so fresh in my head and see if I can apply the knowledge I learned in my second revision to cut down on the average time from 6-8 minutes to that 3-4 that we know is possible.

Games is my best section and I'm proud of it. I had to work to get there but this is also how I know anyone can make it to the -1/-0 range despite what you may initially think! I progressed in steps from -12 to -10 to -6 to -4 to -2 to -0 and it was a long road. There are no short cuts here!

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sophia.olive
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Re: LG practice: repeat or do new ones?

Postby sophia.olive » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:32 pm

It is simple. Buy Lsat Logic Games practice makes perfect, it has one hundred games, and the book is purple. The games were not in the tests. Do five a day, back to back of course, thats twenty days. Then redo them all, thats 40 days and approaching test day. Then start doing them again until test day, 5 a day all in a row. Forget going over them you will eventually anyways. Along with this you are still doing practice tests. About half way through this process you stop missing questions on any logic game you do.
If you dont get them all right on the real thing after this, you will never get them.

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jr1886
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Re: LG practice: repeat or do new ones?

Postby jr1886 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:17 pm

sophia.olive wrote: Buy Lsat Logic Games practice makes perfect, it has one hundred games, and the book is purple.
Link please?

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Nikrall
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Re: LG practice: repeat or do new ones?

Postby Nikrall » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:20 pm

sophia.olive wrote:It is simple. Buy Lsat Logic Games practice makes perfect, it has one hundred games, and the book is purple. The games were not in the tests. Do five a day, back to back of course, thats twenty days. Then redo them all, thats 40 days and approaching test day. Then start doing them again until test day, 5 a day all in a row. Forget going over them you will eventually anyways. Along with this you are still doing practice tests. About half way through this process you stop missing questions on any logic game you do.
If you dont get them all right on the real thing after this, you will never get them.


Do not buy. Fake LSAT questions are worse than worthless. They will actively harm you.

nStiver
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Re: LG practice: repeat or do new ones?

Postby nStiver » Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:40 pm

Nikrall wrote:
sophia.olive wrote:It is simple. Buy Lsat Logic Games practice makes perfect, it has one hundred games, and the book is purple. The games were not in the tests. Do five a day, back to back of course, thats twenty days. Then redo them all, thats 40 days and approaching test day. Then start doing them again until test day, 5 a day all in a row. Forget going over them you will eventually anyways. Along with this you are still doing practice tests. About half way through this process you stop missing questions on any logic game you do.
If you dont get them all right on the real thing after this, you will never get them.


Do not buy. Fake LSAT questions are worse than worthless. They will actively harm you.


+1

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crysmissmichelle
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Re: LG practice: repeat or do new ones?

Postby crysmissmichelle » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:11 pm

jr1886 wrote:
sophia.olive wrote: Buy Lsat Logic Games practice makes perfect, it has one hundred games, and the book is purple.
Link please?


She's talking about the REA LSAT Logic Games book. . .the subtitle is "Practice Makes Perfect"

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sophia.olive
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Re: LG practice: repeat or do new ones?

Postby sophia.olive » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:25 am

nStiver wrote:
Nikrall wrote:
sophia.olive wrote:It is simple. Buy Lsat Logic Games practice makes perfect, it has one hundred games, and the book is purple. The games were not in the tests. Do five a day, back to back of course, thats twenty days. Then redo them all, thats 40 days and approaching test day. Then start doing them again until test day, 5 a day all in a row. Forget going over them you will eventually anyways. Along with this you are still doing practice tests. About half way through this process you stop missing questions on any logic game you do.
If you dont get them all right on the real thing after this, you will never get them.


Do not buy. Fake LSAT questions are worse than worthless. They will actively harm you.


+1


This is true but not in this case. Did you look at the book? Maybe im just really smart and i studied with a book that wasn't working, but completely stopped missing questions regardless? :| or you are just applying some golden rule you heard somewhere. It may be more true for rc and lr but in this case it is exactly the same, function wise, in fact for some reason i think these questions are a little harder. After i went through the book and started taking tests again i kept thinking that the i was missing some step because the questions in the REA had a lot of extra steps in most questions making a little harder. Basically, it was like doing the hardest question, out of the group of four in the actual, over and over again.

Audio Technica Guy
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Re: LG practice: repeat or do new ones?

Postby Audio Technica Guy » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:48 am

both

If you have to choose, for every four new games you do, re-do one that gave you trouble.

It doesn't matter if you remember it, in fact that's why it helps, the point is reinforcing the proper steps on a game type you struggled with.

Audio Technica Guy
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Re: LG practice: repeat or do new ones?

Postby Audio Technica Guy » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:49 am

Nikrall wrote:Do not buy. Fake LSAT questions are worse than worthless. They will actively harm you.


With games I don't think this is necessarily true, unless the answers are wrong. It may not give you an accurate picture of what real games are like, but it won't do active harm.

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kazu
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Re: LG practice: repeat or do new ones?

Postby kazu » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:57 am

You don't *have* to get to every game out there. I definitely agree with the "both" advice - redoing games that were difficult until the logic comes naturally definitely helps. Just make sure to put enough time in between so that you're not doing it by memory.

Also, if you have plenty of real games left to do I don't think there's any reason to do "fake" ones. They might not harm (unlike LR I suppose) but they won't be as helpful as the actual ones.

nStiver
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Re: LG practice: repeat or do new ones?

Postby nStiver » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:59 pm

AverageTutoring wrote:I have done, re-done and re-done again every game I have ever set eyes on.

The first time I complete a game I am concerned with accuracy and time. In most cases, I end up forcing my way through a game more then I need to. The second time around I complete the game untimed to see how much more efficient I could have been.

I ask myself: what inferences didn't I make, what hypotheticals did I make that were not necessary, was there an easier way to complete this game, could i enhance my diagram in any way, etc? The reason for this is that most games, if you note the proper inferences and draw the most efficient diagram, can be done in under 3-4 minutes without a problem. If we can note how this is accomplished upon second revision we stand a better chance of doing it right the first time.

For the third time, I wait a few weeks so that the rules arn't so fresh in my head and see if I can apply the knowledge I learned in my second revision to cut down on the average time from 6-8 minutes to that 3-4 that we know is possible.

Games is my best section and I'm proud of it. I had to work to get there but this is also how I know anyone can make it to the -1/-0 range despite what you may initially think! I progressed in steps from -12 to -10 to -6 to -4 to -2 to -0 and it was a long road. There are no short cuts here!


This is great advice. I need to focus more on efficiency, not just on understanding every single possible outcome of the game.

I think LGs are like math. My college algebra professor told me of a study where researchers recorded the brain activity of people who were fluent in math and people who struggled with math. Both sets were given math problems to complete. Interestingly, the brain activity of the people who sucked at math was much, much higher than those who were good at math. This is because people that struggle with math (myself included) tend to mentally flail about, trying to turn a 3 step problem into a 20 step problem. The people who were better at math showed less brain activity, presumably because they completed the problems using as few steps as possible, only those that were necessary to complete the problem.

Logic games are the same way. When you destroy a logic game, do you sit and write out every single possibility? No, you find the inferences and complete the game in as few steps as possible. Everyone looking to improve their LG score would do well to take AverageTutoring's advice, and focus on efficiency.




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