Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

ca1aa8b8
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Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby ca1aa8b8 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:18 pm

Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will best suit me.

I've went through the powerscore bibles and the grouped by type series for pt's 1-20. I took 2 practice tests and got 170's on them. I want to give myself an edge by learning a new "system" for attacking the lsat...hopefully this will challenge me to think about the questions in new ways. I'm shooting for a 176 b/c that will give me a decent shot at harvard. i've considered the blueprint movie...but i'd really like a "live" online class. Which online course will be best suited for me?
Last edited by ca1aa8b8 on Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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bk1
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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby bk1 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:19 pm

Take more PT's.

ca1aa8b8
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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby ca1aa8b8 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:22 pm

bk1 wrote:Take more PT's.


lol...duh

I plan on doing three a week and reviewing my wrong answers in addition to doing whatever a course would require

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bk1
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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby bk1 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:25 pm

Honestly if you're scoring 170 on your first two timed PT's, practice is going to do far more for you than any sort of new "system." Just take all the PT's and you will probably see an increase in your score as time goes on.

weejonbu
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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby weejonbu » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:27 pm

ca1aa8b8 wrote:
bk1 wrote:Take more PT's.


lol...duh

I plan on doing three a week and reviewing my wrong answers in addition to doing whatever a course would require


I don't think a prep course would very cost effective for you whatsoever. Anything you want to do that will add to your current score can be done with self study. As long as the PT's you took were legit and under timed conditions, I think a little more self-study would push you over the top. You are only missing around 10-15 questions per test, and believe me, a prep course that teaches a whole new method from scratch probably won't help you that much.

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Lonagan
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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby Lonagan » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:28 pm

I have doubts about test prep courses getting you from 98th percentile to 99th percentile. They seem more geared toward getting people from 150s to 160s.

Do practice tests under test conditions.

Go over every single question and make sure you understand why correct answers were correct and incorrect answers were incorrect.

After four or five tests you should be able to identify trends in which question types are giving you trouble.

Stop taking PTs for a while and focus on those. Go back to the Powerscore books, read what people have written in places like this about those questions, ask questions about things that still give you trouble etc.

If you are already PTing at 170 this should allow you to PT in the range you want.

Nothing will get rid of test day variability. I PTed in the 175-179 range for close to a month before the test and came out with a 171.

Or, if you absolutely must burn some cash, f*ck it, I don't know, Kaplan? Sure, why not. Take the Kaplan course.

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Lonagan
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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby Lonagan » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:29 pm

weejonbu wrote:
ca1aa8b8 wrote:
bk1 wrote:Take more PT's.


lol...duh

I plan on doing three a week and reviewing my wrong answers in addition to doing whatever a course would require


I don't think a prep course would very cost effective for you whatsoever. Anything you want to do that will add to your current score can be done with self study. As long as the PT's you took were legit and under timed conditions, I think a little more self-study would push you over the top. You are only missing around 10-15 questions per test, and believe me, a prep course that teaches a whole new method from scratch probably won't help you that much.


Credited. It might even make you move backwards.

ca1aa8b8
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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby ca1aa8b8 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:32 pm

bk1 wrote:Honestly if you're scoring 170 on your first two timed PT's, practice is going to do far more for you than any sort of new "system." Just take all the PT's and you will probably see an increase in your score as time goes on.


...i realize this. But wouldn't you say that taking close to 40 tests, reviewing your mistakes thoroughly, and completing a full-length online class would prepare you more than solely taking the 40 tests and reviewing your mistakes?

That's my thinking. I'm not eager to burn cash...but i am eager to do everything within reason to gain an advantage.

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bk1
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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby bk1 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:35 pm

ca1aa8b8 wrote:...i realize this. But wouldn't you say that taking close to 40 tests, reviewing your mistakes thoroughly, and completing a full-length online class would prepare you more than solely taking the 40 tests and reviewing your mistakes?

That's my thinking. I'm not eager to burn cash...but i am eager to do everything within reason to gain an advantage.


No, because ,as noted earlier, those courses are designed for people who are scoring in the 150's, not people in the 98th+ percentile so you have little to gain from it and the "tricks" that they teach may even slow you down/hurt you (I know for a fact that some things I read while self-teaching I ignored because they would have been detrimental to my score).

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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby ca1aa8b8 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:37 pm

Lonagan wrote:
Credited. It might even make you move backwards.


I guess that that's possible, but doesn't the chance that it would help you seem more reasonable. ...i don't know. I'm not trying to be oppositional, but it just seems that a course from one of the better companies may be worth 1500 buck or whatever...even if the overall gain would only be two or three points. That's what I hope for, anyways.

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby KibblesAndVick » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:38 pm

I'm not sure what benefit a course will give you at this point. If you've broken the 170 threshold you must understand all of the main concepts. You could correct or elaborate on this but I'm assuming that you're missing random things (a RC question here, random LR questions there, maybe you screw up a game every once in while) rather than having a systematic weakness. If that's the case you need to focus on those specific questions. Write out explanations of why each answer is right or wrong. Redo the logic game several times until the inferences are crystal clear. Learning a whole new system is just going to give you a new way to go about scoring a 170.

There's also the risk that trying to learn multiple systems will confuse rather than enlighten you.

Finally, keep in mind that the difference between the low 170's and high 170's is more often than not focus and mindset on test day. You're obviously smart enough to understand all of the questions. The real test is going to become the number of careless mistakes you make under several hours of constant pressure.

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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby ca1aa8b8 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:39 pm

bk1 wrote:No, because ,as noted earlier, those courses are designed for people who are scoring in the 150's, not people in the 98th+ percentile so you have little to gain from it and the "tricks" that they teach may even slow you down/hurt you (I know for a fact that some things I read while self-teaching I ignored because they would have been detrimental to my score).


But don't you think that someone who's scoring in the 98th on their own would be intelligent enough to separate the wheat from the chaff
?

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bk1
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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby bk1 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:39 pm

ca1aa8b8 wrote:I guess that that's possible, but doesn't the chance that it would help you seem more reasonable. ...i don't know. I'm not trying to be oppositional, but it just seems that a course from one of the better companies may be worth 1500 buck or whatever...even if the overall gain would only be two or three points. That's what I hope for, anyways.


In the 175-180 range I feel it has more to do with how you cope with the stress of test day and minimizing stupid mistakes rather than finding out some hidden secret of taking the LSAT. (Personally I choked on test day and that's why I did poorly compared to my PT's).

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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby cesmoc » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:39 pm

ca1aa8b8 wrote:
bk1 wrote:Honestly if you're scoring 170 on your first two timed PT's, practice is going to do far more for you than any sort of new "system." Just take all the PT's and you will probably see an increase in your score as time goes on.


...i realize this. But wouldn't you say that taking close to 40 tests, reviewing your mistakes thoroughly, and completing a full-length online class would prepare you more than solely taking the 40 tests and reviewing your mistakes?

That's my thinking. I'm not eager to burn cash...but i am eager to do everything within reason to gain an advantage.


I am doing what you're planning right now, currently self-studying and taking the Blueprint class. One thing you also have to consider is that the class, if it's any good, will be using actual LSAT material from PTs you will be taking so the scores might be skewed because you will have seen some questions already

I'm actually debating on not doing my homework to get more accurate scores.

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Lonagan
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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby Lonagan » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:42 pm

It sounds like you want people to tell you to take a prep course. So, f*ck it, I don't know, Kaplan?

ca1aa8b8
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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby ca1aa8b8 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:44 pm

KibblesAndVick wrote:I'm not sure what benefit a course will give you at this point. If you've broken the 170 threshold you must understand all of the main concepts. You could correct or elaborate on this but I'm assuming that you're missing random things (a RC question here, random LR questions there, maybe you screw up a game every once in while) rather than having a systematic weakness. If that's the case you need to focus on those specific questions. Write out explanations of why each answer is right or wrong. Redo the logic game several times until the inferences are crystal clear. Learning a whole new system is just going to give you a new way to go about scoring a 170.

There's also the risk that trying to learn multiple systems will confuse rather than enlighten you.

Finally, keep in mind that the difference between the low 170's and high 170's is more often than not focus and mindset on test day. You're obviously smart enough to understand all of the questions. The real test is going to become the number of careless mistakes you make under several hours of constant pressure.



Yea, i can usually finish an individual section with -0 or -1 with five min. to spare, but when it comes to the full length test I'm nervous during the beginning half of each section and tired during the last half. I definitely agree that "the difference between the low 170's and high 170's is more often than not focus and mindset on test day." I thought that a class may give me a little more self-confidence.
Last edited by ca1aa8b8 on Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby ca1aa8b8 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:48 pm

Lonagan wrote:It sounds like you want people to tell you to take a prep course. So, f*ck it, I don't know, Kaplan?


Well, yes, that was the nature of my original question. But I really do appreciate the advice that I'm getting and I am taking it all into consideration. I think that an intelligent thing to do when you are seeking advice is to try flesh out as many different points of view as possible. Choosing not playing devils advocate and eagerly accepting the first tidbit that's kicked your way would be unwise.
Last edited by ca1aa8b8 on Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby KibblesAndVick » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:48 pm

Also, if you're willing to drop 1500 dollars just hire a private tutor. Find someone who caters exclusively to 170+ kids and work with them.

You shouldn't actually do this. You should save the 1500 dollars or spend it on something cool like a vacation or alcohol or both at the same time. But if you must do something I think a private tutor who has lots of experience with high scoring kids would be the most sound investment.

edit: soundest investment, not most sound? right or not right?
Last edited by KibblesAndVick on Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ca1aa8b8
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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby ca1aa8b8 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:51 pm

KibblesAndVick wrote:...someone who caters exclusively to 170+ kids and work with them.


I haven't thought of this but it sounds like a good idea. What are some good resources for getting connected with someone who has the credentials?

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ArthurEdens
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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby ArthurEdens » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:57 pm

Having taught test prep in the past, I can say with confidence that the classes are not designed to improve those who already have high scores. These classes are designed for the lower to middle portion of the bell curve.

If I were you, I'd look at which questions I was missing and look for trends. If you miss from random sections, then you probably don't have a specific weak point. Just keep taking PTs to improve speed and accuracy.

If you constantly miss, let's say, reading comp, then obviously focus on that.

Once you get to 170+, on any given day you could score 168-180. A lot of it is luck (e.g. whether you get awful reading comp passages) and concentration.

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Sh@keNb@ke
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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby Sh@keNb@ke » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:47 pm

ca1aa8b8 wrote:
bk1 wrote:Take more PT's.


lol...duh

I plan on doing three a week and reviewing my wrong answers in addition to doing whatever a course would require


If you do this you will definitely get burnt out.... I'm currently in a TM class and there's PLENTY of homework. If you are considering taking a class, which I don't think you need to, make sure not to exhaust all your resources because courses such as TM will have exposed you to all real LSAT questions by the time you've finished.

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F458JE
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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby F458JE » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:37 pm

Lonagan wrote:It sounds like you want people to tell you to take a prep course. So, f*ck it, I don't know, Kaplan?


+1

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Nikrall
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Re: Scoring 170 after self-study, which online test prep will su

Postby Nikrall » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:41 am

Hello,

I am an LSAT teacher based in Manhattan. I don't cater only to 170+ scorers, but I've taught a number of them in the past who have gone on to do very well. At your level the main thing to do is focus on the few weaknesses you have and learn exactly why they ask specific questions.

I've been teaching the test for over 4 years and I have a JD from NYU. Let me know if you are interested.

Best,

Nik



ca1aa8b8 wrote:
KibblesAndVick wrote:...someone who caters exclusively to 170+ kids and work with them.


I haven't thought of this but it sounds like a good idea. What are some good resources for getting connected with someone who has the credentials?




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