Conversation with a student today

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Audio Technica Guy

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Conversation with a student today

Postby Audio Technica Guy » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:10 pm

So I have this tutoring student who is kinda mediocre on games, but has potential. However, she LOVES doing hypothetical scenarios for everything on games. She does like 10 or so before she starts and then at least a couple during all the questions. Obviously this takes her forever and she only really gets to two games. Also, because she is doing so many hypotheticals, she has a tendency to either make mistakes or not consider anything other than the possibilities she has drawn out. Suffice it to say she doesn't do very well. But she still loves the hypos. That is the background for our conversation:

Audio Technica Guy: So, what happened on this test? You went up some in args and RC, but games you actually went backwards.

Hypo Girl: Um, I really struggled with the "must be" questions. I would get two answers on a lot of them and guess the wrong one.

ATG: What do you mean? Like when you worked through the deductions you figured that two different answers had to be true, so you made bad deductions?

HG: Um, you're going to be mad at me, but no, when I did my scenarios, I kept seeing two answers that were true in all the ones I did.

ATG: I thought we agreed the hypos were taking you nowhere?

HG: Yeah, but they make sense to me. I get the hypothetical approach. I don't really get deductions, I miss them sometimes.

ATG: Well, it takes time and practice, but you're not practicing deductions, because you only do hypotheticals, which are fine if you have infinity time, but you don't.

HG: Yeah, I guess, but why can't you teach me to do the hypothetical way faster and more accurately? Why does it have to be your way? I don't think you're really responding to my needs here, which is why I paid for tutoring.

ATG: Because A) you can't do the hypothetical way faster and more accurately. There are limits on how fast you can write down hypotheticals and then when you write them all down, you have to navigate through them as well. B) Your "need" isn't to figure out how to do things the wrong way, your need is to get better. You can't get better with the hypothetical method. Let me ask you a question.

HG: ok

ATG: what is 6 times 8?

HG:48

ATG: how did you know that?

HG: because I know what 6 times 8 is.

ATG: Well, couldn't you have also done it by drawing out 6 rows of 8 apples?

HG: Yeah, I don't see your point

ATG: Exactly, you wouldn't do it that way, because while that way would give you the right answer, it takes a long time and you'd be prone to making a mistake.

HG: Yeah?

ATG: That's what you're doing here, insisting on doing a method that is easy to understand at first, but is incredibly inefficient and prone to error.

HG: Isn't that what you said a comparison flaw is? Aren't you comparing two different things, doing games and doing math, as if they were the same thing.

ATG: Awesome that you remembered comparison flaws!, but not to get all philosophical here, but games are math, and while it is a comarison flaw, I'm not using it to definitelly make a claim, I'm using it to illustra (interrupted)

HG (interrupting): Wait, what?, games aren't math! I got an A in calculus, I suck at these.

ATG: Sorry, that was a side point, the bottom line is, you're super smart, right?

HG: I guess so

ATG: So it can't be that you're too dumb to do games, it has to be that you're doing them the wrong way.

HG: Yeah, I can see that

ATG: The way I showed you is the right way, you just have to practice.

HG: But if I practiced the hypothetical method more, I'd get better at it too?

ATG: Well, no, but our time is up for today. Please just try what I told you.
Last edited by Audio Technica Guy on Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pearalegal

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby Pearalegal » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:13 pm

Why are you posting this? If the student figures out you're talking about her, you'll most likely lose her business and in the process, start to earn a bad rep (that you deserve).

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glucose101

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby glucose101 » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:15 pm

wow. how frustrating

Audio Technica Guy

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby Audio Technica Guy » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:16 pm

Pearalegal wrote:Why are you posting this? If the student figures out you're talking about her, you'll most likely lose her business and in the process, start to earn a bad rep (that you deserve).


A) Student doesn't have a computer, her parents don't allow her to use one and she hates them anyway
B) To point out some of the difficulties in teaching the LSAT
C) To give an illustration of how not to try to make a point about how to do something
D) to lighten things up a bit.

Sorry if I offended.

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dominkay

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby dominkay » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:18 pm

She sounds like a brat.

How is she going to get through law school if she can't use a computer? How did she get through college?

Audio Technica Guy

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby Audio Technica Guy » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:21 pm

dominkay wrote:She sounds like a brat.

How is she going to get through law school if she can't use a computer? How did she get through college?


She's a pretty nice girl, you just have to absolutely prove everything to her.

Handwritten notes, which she's actually pretty fast at, which is actually part of the problem, because she handwrites so fast and neatly that she can actually almost do it by writing out all the hypos.

Plus, she can use a computer, she just doesn't. Her life goal is also to be a judge in her hometown, like her grandfather, who never used a computer in his entire life.

Most law schools have a handwritten option for exams.

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Na_Swatch

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby Na_Swatch » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:21 pm

I found this amusing so thanks for the post... and good luck with the student OP haha

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suspicious android

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby suspicious android » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:37 pm

This was funny.. I want to slap about 20% of my one-on-one students, probably 50% of those who are currently undergrads. I am always amazed at the kind of magical thinking that some people have about learning. And you shouldn't feel bad about posting an amusing anecdotes on the internet about stupid things people say, that's everyone's God given right. I specifically remain anonymous and dont mention what company I work for so I can talk shit about people if I want.

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gdane

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby gdane » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:38 pm

Audio Technica Guy wrote:So I have this tutoring student who is kinda mediocre, but has potential. However, she LOVES doing hypothetical scenarios for everything on games. She does like 10 or so before she starts and then at least a couple during all the questions. Obviously this takes her forever and she only really gets to two games. Also, because she is doing so many hypotheticals, she has a tendency to either make mistakes or not consider anything other than the possibilities she has drawn out. Suffice it to say she doesn't do very well. But she still loves the hypos. That is the background for our conversation:



HG: Isn't that what you said a comparison flaw is? Aren't you comparing two different things, doing games and doing math, as if they were the same thing.

ATG: Awesome that you remembered comparison flaws!, but not to get all philosophical here, but games are math, and while it is a comarison flaw, I'm not using it to definitelly make a claim, I'm using it to illustra (interrupted)


ATG: Well, no, but our time is up for today. Please just try what I told you.


BURN!!! Wow! Haha!

Im inclined to ask if shes hot, but that may not be appropriate to ask or for ATG to answer...

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Sh@keNb@ke

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby Sh@keNb@ke » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:53 pm

LOL.... great post.

bk1

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:03 pm

Audio Technica Guy wrote:Plus, she can use a computer, she just doesn't. Her life goal is also to be a judge in her hometown, like her grandfather, who never used a computer in his entire life.


99% of my ancestors never used a car, a cell phone, an iPod, the internet, paper, the list goes on. I should decide not to use those things.

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dominkay

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby dominkay » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:06 pm

bk187 wrote:
Audio Technica Guy wrote:Plus, she can use a computer, she just doesn't. Her life goal is also to be a judge in her hometown, like her grandfather, who never used a computer in his entire life.


99% of my ancestors never used a car, a cell phone, an iPod, the internet, paper, the list goes on. I should decide not to use those things.


180

Also, her parents don't ALLOW her? Is she 16? Jesus.

Audio Technica Guy

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby Audio Technica Guy » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:06 pm

bk187 wrote:
Audio Technica Guy wrote:Plus, she can use a computer, she just doesn't. Her life goal is also to be a judge in her hometown, like her grandfather, who never used a computer in his entire life.


99% of my ancestors never used a car, a cell phone, an iPod, the internet, paper, the list goes on. I should decide not to use those things.


That's not the reason why she doesn't use one, it's her response to "you hate computers and are going into law?"

her reason for not using one is that she hates the internet and video games and what they've done to society and she likes the "feel" of a typewriter.

Audio Technica Guy

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby Audio Technica Guy » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:08 pm

dominkay wrote:
bk187 wrote:
Audio Technica Guy wrote:Plus, she can use a computer, she just doesn't. Her life goal is also to be a judge in her hometown, like her grandfather, who never used a computer in his entire life.


99% of my ancestors never used a car, a cell phone, an iPod, the internet, paper, the list goes on. I should decide not to use those things.


180

Also, her parents don't ALLOW her? Is she 16? Jesus.


Um, I've had a student who was 23 and his parents wouldn't let him "drive into the city" because it was too dangerous. This isn't NYC I'm talking about either. This girl isn't really even that high on the helicopter parents scale, in my experience. I've also had students who weren't allowed to have their own emails and all emails went through their parents.

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:11 pm

Audio Technica Guy wrote:That's not the reason why she doesn't use one, it's her response to "you hate computers and are going into law?"

her reason for not using one is that she hates the internet and video games and what they've done to society and she likes the "feel" of a typewriter.


Still stupid. If she wants to do something that doesn't involve the internet, she pretty much has to live in a cave and forage for mushrooms to survive.

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:12 pm

Audio Technica Guy wrote:Um, I've had a student who was 23 and his parents wouldn't let him "drive into the city" because it was too dangerous. This isn't NYC I'm talking about either. This girl isn't really even that high on the helicopter parents scale, in my experience. I've also had students who weren't allowed to have their own emails and all emails went through their parents.


The helicopter parents scale is a nice way of showing why many people shouldn't be allowed to have kids. :P

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dominkay

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby dominkay » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:15 pm

bk187 wrote:
Audio Technica Guy wrote:That's not the reason why she doesn't use one, it's her response to "you hate computers and are going into law?"

her reason for not using one is that she hates the internet and video games and what they've done to society and she likes the "feel" of a typewriter.


Still stupid. If she wants to do something that doesn't involve the internet, she pretty much has to live in a cave and forage for mushrooms to survive.


David Souter never used a computer! But this girl is crazy and so are her parents.

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dominkay

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby dominkay » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:15 pm

Audio Technica Guy wrote:
dominkay wrote:
bk187 wrote:
Audio Technica Guy wrote:Plus, she can use a computer, she just doesn't. Her life goal is also to be a judge in her hometown, like her grandfather, who never used a computer in his entire life.


99% of my ancestors never used a car, a cell phone, an iPod, the internet, paper, the list goes on. I should decide not to use those things.


180

Also, her parents don't ALLOW her? Is she 16? Jesus.


Um, I've had a student who was 23 and his parents wouldn't let him "drive into the city" because it was too dangerous. This isn't NYC I'm talking about either. This girl isn't really even that high on the helicopter parents scale, in my experience. I've also had students who weren't allowed to have their own emails and all emails went through their parents.


Wow. Suddenly I am grateful for my absent parents.

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby jaydizzle » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:18 pm

Hey now, I have helicopter parents. It's no fun haha. Despite all the loans I will have, I think it might be a good idea to live on my own. My parents were arguing with me about going out the other day at midnight because the roads are dangerous and there are drunk drivers on the road during this time. Jeez, talk about being overly concerned and protective. I don't think my parents have any idea how easily accessible some things are to me. I could have began drinking at 12 if I wanted to or smoked pot. I actually made decisions on my own not to do these things.

I try to do my own thing, but sometimes it is hard when you live with your parents. They make the rules while I am under their roof. They keep telling me that I should stay after I graduate college and law school (hopefully this will be in the cards). Unless something changes, I won't be doing this no matter how much money I will save since being treated like I am 12 is no fun...

Audio Technica Guy

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby Audio Technica Guy » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:20 pm

The funniest thing about this all is that she has totally changed her approach on RC and arguments. Like she used to do things totally backwards there and completely listened to what I said and it completely transformed her success on thsoe sections. She went from an average of -9 on RC to -1 and -11 total on args to -2.

It's like some bizarro world. Though I guess it's for the best, as her parents bought 100 hours of tutoring and we'd have been essentially done like 26 hours into it if she listened to what I said about games.

Audio Technica Guy

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby Audio Technica Guy » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:21 pm

jaydizzle wrote:Hey now, I have helicopter parents. It's no fun haha. Despite all the loans I will have, I think it might be a good idea to live on my own. My parents were arguing with me about going out the other day at midnight because the roads are dangerous and there are drunk drivers on the road during this time. Jeez, talk about being overly concerned and protective. I don't think my parents have any idea how easily accessible some things are to me. I could have began drinking at 12 if I wanted to or smoked pot. I actually made decisions on my own not to do these things.

I try to do my own thing, but sometimes it is hard when you live with your parents. They make the rules while I am under their roof. They keep telling me that I should stay after I graduate college and law school (hopefully this will be in the cards). Unless something changes, I won't be doing this no matter how much money I will save since being treated like I am 12 is no fun...


Ouch, yeah, usually helicopter parents pay off all your loans for you, which is how they sucker you in. Sounds like you've got the worst of both worlds, not paying your loans and being overly into your business.

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby jaydizzle » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:24 pm

Audio Technica Guy wrote:
jaydizzle wrote:Hey now, I have helicopter parents. It's no fun haha. Despite all the loans I will have, I think it might be a good idea to live on my own. My parents were arguing with me about going out the other day at midnight because the roads are dangerous and there are drunk drivers on the road during this time. Jeez, talk about being overly concerned and protective. I don't think my parents have any idea how easily accessible some things are to me. I could have began drinking at 12 if I wanted to or smoked pot. I actually made decisions on my own not to do these things.

I try to do my own thing, but sometimes it is hard when you live with your parents. They make the rules while I am under their roof. They keep telling me that I should stay after I graduate college and law school (hopefully this will be in the cards). Unless something changes, I won't be doing this no matter how much money I will save since being treated like I am 12 is no fun...


Ouch, yeah, usually helicopter parents pay off all your loans for you, which is how they sucker you in. Sounds like you've got the worst of both worlds, not paying your loans and being overly into your business.


Yeah, no benefits! Hah.

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:26 pm

Audio Technica Guy wrote:Ouch, yeah, usually helicopter parents pay off all your loans for you, which is how they sucker you in. Sounds like you've got the worst of both worlds, not paying your loans and being overly into your business.


Yeah that's the only benefit to helicopter parents and not to get that would royally suck.

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby jaydizzle » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:47 pm

I think you guys will get a kick out of this encounter I had over winter break:

I was going to go to NYC with a friend to go see a broadway show at 7pm. We were going to get there early and spend the day there. There was supposed to be a bad winter storm, but nothing ended up happening so we were going to as scheduled. Well, maybe an inch or two overall nothing drastically dangerous. My parents made a big fuss about it because it was snowing lightly, and NYC is 3 hours away from where I live so they brought up how I would be home at like 2 am Saturday which is a bad idea. They have something with the whole driving late thing and drunk drivers being everywhere. It's totally ridiculous. The way to New York had no bad weather, it was only around the area I lived. What makes this worse is that I am 21.

I hate my school sometimes, but just being around my friends and doing what I want is nice. Hell, it's nice to get out at 3am and get a pizza. Despite being 21, I can't drink around my parents. I'm not some raging alcoholic. I would enjoy just having 1 drink or two on a Friday. My parents keep telling me how I should not drink in school because my grades will go down the toilet and that it just isn't allowed. Haha. I think they would strangle me if they found out public safety came to my room at 4am this past semester because we were having a loud party.

So, big loans and helicopter parents = FAIL. I think a lot of this stems from the fact that my dad never finished college and his situation with dropping out and not becoming the doctor he always wanted to be is part of this whole mess. It seems as I get closer to finishing there is light at the end of the tunnel. I noticed they are trying to ease up, and they claim if I go to law school or choose to live here after I finish I am free to be an adult. I really don't know. Having free food and not paying rent would help me with my loan situation, but will they change? I guess time will tell.

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Re: Conversation with a student today

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:58 pm

jaydizzle wrote:story


I would killself, but maybe I am just spoiled from having chill parents.



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