Project 180

Norlan
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:45 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby Norlan » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:23 am

my plan is to get 170+ consistently on all practice tests (from Kaplan, PT60, etc...)

hopefully that way I'll be able to score higher on the actual test

does this make sense? personally, i believe in consistent scores...

Audio Technica Guy
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:21 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby Audio Technica Guy » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:28 am

declsatkiller wrote:
Will definitely continue to review this way: break down premises and conclusion of each and every argument and subsequently will break down each answer choice, why i chose it/why i didn't, why it's right/why it's wrong.


Just remember not all arguments have a conclusion. A lot of inference questions don't have conclusions at all.

Norlan
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:45 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby Norlan » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:38 pm

declsatkiller wrote:So far:
I have read through the LR bible and have made index cards which I look over almost daily.


How do you make index cards? What do you make index cards of?

Eliyahu7
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:03 am

Re: Project 180

Postby Eliyahu7 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:46 pm

declsatkiller wrote:this is good stuff i think. so simple, but if you can get to the point that you can see the premises and conclusion of each argument immediately, i can see how it would be very helpful to finding the answer and finding it more quickly. thank you very much. p.s. impressive with the LR june lsat...what'd you get? (overall score and LR score) if you dont mind my asking


I scored a 170, with a combined total of -4 on my LR sections (-2 per section).


Audio Technica Guy wrote: Just remember not all arguments have a conclusion. A lot of inference questions don't have conclusions at all.


This is a good point. There are certain instances in which you will encounter a stimulus that does not contain a conclusion and instead just consists of a set of facts (the term "argument" in this case would be inaccurate, as an argument necessarily contains a conclusion). Despite this, the principle remains the same. You need to be able recognize how the different parts of the stimulus interact with each other. In the typical situation in which you are dealing with an argument, this amounts to understanding how the premises and the conclusion link up. In the case of a "set of facts" type scenario you need to figure out the different statements can be linked up together to form a valid, yet unstated conclusion.

User avatar
declsatkiller
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:04 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby declsatkiller » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:31 pm

Audio Technica Guy wrote:Just remember not all arguments have a conclusion. A lot of inference questions don't have conclusions at all.


Yeah, I've picked up on that. From what I've noticed, question stimuli with an argument will use either "conclusion" or "argument" in the question stem. For example, in a question I've just reviewed, I failed to identify an argument in the stimulus even though it does have a conclusion indicator (thus). The question stem says "the statements above, if true, most seriously undermine which one of the following assertions". When it says "statements above", I feel like there is generally no argument. Does this have any validity?


Nice job on your june lsat eliy.


Norlan wrote:
declsatkiller wrote:So far:
I have read through the LR bible and have made index cards which I look over almost daily.


How do you make index cards? What do you make index cards of?


flash cards with index cards

Norlan
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:45 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby Norlan » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:28 pm

declsatkiller wrote:
Audio Technica Guy wrote:Just remember not all arguments have a conclusion. A lot of inference questions don't have conclusions at all.


Yeah, I've picked up on that. From what I've noticed, question stimuli with an argument will use either "conclusion" or "argument" in the question stem. For example, in a question I've just reviewed, I failed to identify an argument in the stimulus even though it does have a conclusion indicator (thus). The question stem says "the statements above, if true, most seriously undermine which one of the following assertions". When it says "statements above", I feel like there is generally no argument. Does this have any validity?


Nice job on your june lsat eliy.


Norlan wrote:
declsatkiller wrote:So far:
I have read through the LR bible and have made index cards which I look over almost daily.


How do you make index cards? What do you make index cards of?


flash cards with index cards


I meant, what kind of study materials do you put on index cards? is there something you need to memorize?

Audio Technica Guy
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:21 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby Audio Technica Guy » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:32 pm

Norlan wrote:I meant, what kind of study materials do you put on index cards? is there something you need to memorize?


One thing I've gotten students to do with flashcards is question type identification on LR. That is, write a sample question on one side and the question type on the other. Drill them until you basically look at the Q and don't even have to think about what Q type it is.

User avatar
declsatkiller
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:04 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby declsatkiller » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:35 pm

oh lol. sorry i thought you were being a smart ass. As I went through each chapter (question type) of the LR bible I took notes about the intricacies they highlighted of each question type, i.e. common wrong answer traps, common wording of correct answers, little tricks to test your answer, conclusion/premise indicators, conditional reasoning, cause effect, and formal logic usage.

fosterp
Posts: 319
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:09 am

Re: Project 180

Postby fosterp » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:46 pm

A question for those of you studying the LR or have mastered LR. I'm about halfway through the LRG and for the most part I am learning the reasoning pretty well, however in the conditional reasoning section, I am usually not very quick or even accurate at figuring out how to symbolize the statements, sometimes I can't figure out which side of the arrows the symbols go on or even which statements are conditional statements when the passage gets wordy. Attempting to use the conditionality rules with contrapositives and such usually slow me down/screw me up, yet for some reason when I just sort of try to figure it out intuitively the answers seem to pop out at me.

Do you guys routinely write out conditional statements for questions that use them, or only some of them, or none? And can anyone suggest some tips to get better at simply symbolizing conditional statements since the practice in the LGR is fairly limited.

User avatar
declsatkiller
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:04 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby declsatkiller » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:29 pm

July 6

I finished reviewing the last LR section that I did. It takes a long time when you are breaking apart each question and answer choice, but I'm certain it's worth it. As I went through, there were a couple questions in which i couldn't describe why an answer was wrong, only that the correct one was better. I know this isn't correct though, as there are always 4 incorrect answers. it's just hard to describe what exactly makes an answer choice wrong sometimes.

Tomorrow I will take another LR section and work through more of the LGB.

User avatar
declsatkiller
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:04 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby declsatkiller » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:28 am

July 7

Took another LR section: test 9 section 2. I missed 3 (wrote in the last answer, correctly, right after my timer went off). not totally disappointed with -3 even though it's worse than my last section (-1), given that I am just really starting to practice and just starting this intensive review process for LR. I have begun the intensive review strategy (I guess I could call it the audio-eliy method) for the newest section I've done. I missed:
number four (a crazy easy question that I just flat out misread the stimulus to)
number 11 ( a tricky one if for no other reason than answer D is highly plausible and answer E is correct; i think i might've put d before reading e..big mistake i know. plus there is wording in e that indicates it's probably correct)
and number 15 (again a pretty easy question to which i simply didn't pay close enough attention with the wording)

also covered quite a bit more ground in the LGB today too.

will continue review of LR section, as well as LGB work tomorrow.

cheers

User avatar
Nulli Secundus
Posts: 2625
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:19 am

Re: Project 180

Postby Nulli Secundus » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:19 am

While there are 4 incorrect answers, remember the note at the beginning of the LR sections; you are expected to choose "the best" answer; which implies, while only one of the answers are credited, others need not be very obviously wrong, just not being as good as the credited answer is enough.

Audio Technica Guy
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:21 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby Audio Technica Guy » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:35 pm

nullisecundus wrote:While there are 4 incorrect answers, remember the note at the beginning of the LR sections; you are expected to choose "the best" answer; which implies, while only one of the answers are credited, others need not be very obviously wrong, just not being as good as the credited answer is enough.



While this is technically true, it's usually much more clear cut than this implies. 99% of the time there is one answer that is very definitely correct and 4 that are very definitely wrong. The mumbo jumbo at the beginning is more of a disclaimer in case someone wants to make an overly creative argument than anything else.
Last edited by Audio Technica Guy on Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Woozy
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:29 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby Woozy » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:42 pm

OP: It sounds like you are making good progress for LR and LG. The review strategies given in this thread are good ones. I haven't seen you mention RC. I don't agree with the common strategy on this site of ignoring RC. You should at the very least be doing occasional RC sections, and you should consider seeking out good reading material to go over for half an hour or so every day.

Norlan wrote:my plan is to get 170+ consistently on all practice tests (from Kaplan, PT60, etc...)

hopefully that way I'll be able to score higher on the actual test

does this make sense? personally, i believe in consistent scores...


Judging by reports on this site, you are more likely to score lower on test day than higher. The best plan is simply to get as good at the test as you can, not to limp to some arbitrary score and hope this score will magically increase on test day.

User avatar
declsatkiller
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:04 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby declsatkiller » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:46 pm

Anyone who used a method of studying LR the way that I am want to offer up their scores on the LR sections for the actual test?

also, upon completion of the LG bible, whats a good strategy for completely mastering logic games?

User avatar
declsatkiller
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:04 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby declsatkiller » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:15 am

July 8

Continued my review of the latest LR section i've done. I'm up to about 22 pages on the word document i have all of this on haha, and it's single spaced. again, what im doing is typing out premises and conclusion of each argumetn and then explaining each answer choice.

also today, i made more progress in LG bible. finished advanced linear games; now more than halfway completed with it. also erasing my work from each game after i do it and randomly going back and redoing games i've already done. the games are definitely getting easier for me. the key is no doubt a great set up

petrovovitch@
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:19 am

Re: December LSAT study blog

Postby petrovovitch@ » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:43 pm

Audio Technica Guy wrote:
declsatkiller wrote:thanks a lot i really do appreciate it. i was writing mroe than just seemed wrong, etc.; i was writing why each answer i wrote was right/wrong but definitely not answering those six questions. i will start doing that.

thanks again


Let me also say at first it's going to be a HUGE time drain, but you'll definitely start to see patterns to right and wrong answers, which has the benefit of making review go faster, for two reasons 1) you get more answers right and 2) you more quickly see what it is you did wrong and can more quickly write it out.

The first time you do this approach, it's not uncommon to take an hour or more to review the test. It's definitely worth it.

I'm curious what you mean by this? do you mean that eventually you'll be able to spot which is the right and which is the wrong answer by simply recognizing their respective forms?

User avatar
seeodywhy
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:42 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby seeodywhy » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:10 pm

What exactly do you mean you break down the premises and conclusion of each argument. Can you pm me an example. I think you are really on to something here.

Norlan
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:45 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby Norlan » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:31 am

Audio Technica Guy wrote:
Norlan wrote:I meant, what kind of study materials do you put on index cards? is there something you need to memorize?


One thing I've gotten students to do with flashcards is question type identification on LR. That is, write a sample question on one side and the question type on the other. Drill them until you basically look at the Q and don't even have to think about what Q type it is.


is your flash card method restricted to LR only?

I was reading Kaplan and it taught me how to identify which types of questions in general, you can name them all: assumption, weaken/strengthen, flaw, inference, principle, parallel reasoning, method of argument, paradox, point @ issue, main point, and role of a statement,

Audio Technica Guy
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:21 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby Audio Technica Guy » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:13 am

Norlan wrote:
Audio Technica Guy wrote:
Norlan wrote:I meant, what kind of study materials do you put on index cards? is there something you need to memorize?


One thing I've gotten students to do with flashcards is question type identification on LR. That is, write a sample question on one side and the question type on the other. Drill them until you basically look at the Q and don't even have to think about what Q type it is.


is your flash card method restricted to LR only?

I was reading Kaplan and it taught me how to identify which types of questions in general, you can name them all: assumption, weaken/strengthen, flaw, inference, principle, parallel reasoning, method of argument, paradox, point @ issue, main point, and role of a statement,


Well, LR has more defined Q types, whereas RC changes the general types up a lot. Games essentially has 4 question types that you need to be able to identify, but are almost trivial to do so. So it ends up being the most important on LR.

Assumption ABSOLUTELY MUST be broken down into sufficient assumptions and necessary assumptions. They're actually VERY different. There are 4 different principle Q types.

User avatar
LawSuccess
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:48 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby LawSuccess » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:40 am

Audio Technica Guy wrote:
Norlan wrote:
Audio Technica Guy wrote:
Norlan wrote:I meant, what kind of study materials do you put on index cards? is there something you need to memorize?


One thing I've gotten students to do with flashcards is question type identification on LR. That is, write a sample question on one side and the question type on the other. Drill them until you basically look at the Q and don't even have to think about what Q type it is.


is your flash card method restricted to LR only?

I was reading Kaplan and it taught me how to identify which types of questions in general, you can name them all: assumption, weaken/strengthen, flaw, inference, principle, parallel reasoning, method of argument, paradox, point @ issue, main point, and role of a statement,


Well, LR has more defined Q types, whereas RC changes the general types up a lot. Games essentially has 4 question types that you need to be able to identify, but are almost trivial to do so. So it ends up being the most important on LR.

Assumption ABSOLUTELY MUST be broken down into sufficient assumptions and necessary assumptions. They're actually VERY different. There are 4 different principle Q types.


I was actually just going to come back to ask you if your questions for reviewing right/wrong answers were for all sections, or just LR. I'm working on LG's right now, and seems like going through those questions might not be as helpful as on LR. So, you're saying use those for LR, right?
Thanks.

Norlan
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:45 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby Norlan » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:45 am

yea so far it's easier to identify questions on LR but not LG, I just got done with the first 3 sets of practices in the Kaplan book on LR and now working LG, pretty difficult at first cuz i need to watch out for the time while working out the problems, i'll let you know more how i progress by end of day today

Audio Technica Guy
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:21 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby Audio Technica Guy » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:49 pm

LawSuccess wrote:I was actually just going to come back to ask you if your questions for reviewing right/wrong answers were for all sections, or just LR. I'm working on LG's right now, and seems like going through those questions might not be as helpful as on LR. So, you're saying use those for LR, right?
Thanks.


It's important for all, its just usually slightly less important for games anyway. Also, students tend to review games more anyway, for some reason, so I end up not having to emphasize it as much. However, you absolutely MUST make sure you understand why the given answer was definitely right and the wrong answers were definitely wrong when you review a game.

Audio Technica Guy
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:21 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby Audio Technica Guy » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:54 pm

seeodywhy wrote:What exactly do you mean you break down the premises and conclusion of each argument. Can you pm me an example. I think you are really on to something here.



Lr can be broken into categories of questions (Princeton Review uses the terms information and reasoning). For anything that is a reasoning question, you have to be able to break the argument down into premises and the conclusion. The conclusion is what the argument is setting out to prove. Premises are the facts that the argument uses to get to its conclusion.

For example:

All men are mortal. Socrates is a man. Therefore, Socrates is mortal.

The argument is setting out to prove that Socrates is mortal. It's not out to prove that he's a man, that's used to support the final conclusion. Likewise, it's not out to support that all men are mortal, again that is what is used.

So our argument goes like:
Premise 1: All men are mortal
Premise 2: Socrates is a man
Conclusion: Socrates is a mortal

The conclusion is a logical consequence of these two premises.

User avatar
Eichörnchen
Posts: 1119
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:51 pm

Re: Project 180

Postby Eichörnchen » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:12 pm

Don't want to interrupt anything, but just wanted to drop in and say "hi" to the OP. I'm also taking the December LSAT and so far we have similar strategy. I'm wrapping up chapter 2 of the LGB (even though according to my plan, I should be wrapping up chapter 3). I have to say I'm having a tough time concentrating and having the willpower to study. I think I've been getting burned out on school so the last thing I want to do is study! Oh well...hopefully this thread gives me a little motivation. Seems like you are on a great track, so good luck with your studying. I also wanted to say thanks to Audio Technica Guy for those questions that we should all be able to answer- very helpful!




Return to “LSAT Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Instrumental, maybeman and 11 guests