Project 180 Forum

[declsatkiller]

I'm creating this topic as a motivational tool for myself. I will be taking the LSAT in december and I'm beginning to study. I will list an outline of what my studying is going to consist of. I will update it daily (or as often as I study) and describe what I'm doing/how much progress is being made. Please feel free to offer any advice/comments.

It's July first. I have approximately five months worth of time to prepare, but I'm still in UG and won't be able to offer a massive amount of time Monday through Fridays starting in late august.

So far:
I have read through the LR bible and have made index cards which I look over almost daily.
I'm just getting started with the LG bible and have worked through the first 100 pages or so.

I have the book "10 Actual, Official LSAT preptests" that consists of tests 7,9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. I'm basically using these as scrap tests, doing sections (mainly LR sections for now) arbitrarily just for practice. I've taken a few and scored them, and starting now I will go back through and find out why each question was wrong and why it was right. I will type these "why right/why wrong" descriptions for each question in a file entitled lsat prep on my computer, also recording which test/section it was and the date i took it.

Once I’ve worked fully through the LG bible and practiced some of those sections in the same way I am practicing LR currently, I will go through the RC bible, continually practicing LR and LG sections from “10 actual official lsat preptests”, even if they’re repeats, while I do. Once I’m done with this, I will do RC sections from “10 actual…” following same procedure as for LR and LG.

Once I’ve done some RC I will then be ready to tackle full on tests and have around 50 remaining. (plenty; ill probably take around 30 full preptests) I will take a test probably every other day and then on off days go through and write down why each answer was correct or wrong.
If I plan on taking 30 tests, every other day, I need to have gone through each bible thoroughly and done every question/explanation from “10 actual, official…” by about the end of September (60 days prior to the test). I should have them done prior to that though, and if that’s the case will just bump up to 40 or so practice tests.

Questions/comments just let me know! Thanks! Will update frequently and discuss progression.

[declsatkiller]

Took test nine section 4 logical reasoning today. completed 23/25 questions and got 19 correct.
I'm now going through each question and typing up why each answer was correct (or wrong for the ones i missed). taking longer than i thought so i may begin only going through the ones i marked questionable while taking the test section. i am definitely learning a lot about the test and structure of questions though as i could through it. I need to improve speed, and this more in-depth understanding of the questions should help.

i worked through only a few pages of the logic games bible today. i find that right now i can do the logic games with almost 100% accuracy but it takes too much time unless it's a basic, linear/balanced game.

I'll probably finish my explanations for test nine section four tomorrow and then take another LR section. I'll also probably work through some more of the LGB.

[Audio Technica Guy]

you need to do more than just "why right/why wrong"

For every question you get wrong, you need to be able to answer 4 questions:

1) What about the wrong answer I chose did I miss that made it wrong?
2) What about the wrong answer I chose made me like that answer?
3) What about the right answer did I miss that made it right?
4) What about the right answer did I think was wrong?

For every question you get right, you should also be able to answer two (or five, depending how you count) questions:
1) What was the reason I could eliminate each of the wrong answers
2) What made the right answer right?

The more you can write simple, concrete answers to these questions, the more quickly you will be able to nail your process of elimination on a real test. Don't allow yourself to write "just seemed wrong" or even "obviously irrelevant". You have to be able to say why that is the case.

Doing this more thorough method for 15 tests is better than just writing "right/wrong" on 30 tests.

[declsatkiller]

thanks a lot i really do appreciate it. i was writing mroe than just seemed wrong, etc.; i was writing why each answer i wrote was right/wrong but definitely not answering those six questions. i will start doing that.

thanks again

[Audio Technica Guy]

thanks a lot i really do appreciate it. i was writing mroe than just seemed wrong, etc.; i was writing why each answer i wrote was right/wrong but definitely not answering those six questions. i will start doing that.

thanks again

Let me also say at first it's going to be a HUGE time drain, but you'll definitely start to see patterns to right and wrong answers, which has the benefit of making review go faster, for two reasons 1) you get more answers right and 2) you more quickly see what it is you did wrong and can more quickly write it out.

The first time you do this approach, it's not uncommon to take an hour or more to review the test. It's definitely worth it.

[declsatkiller]

thanks again. i hate to abuse your generosity but:

1) should i write (aka type) out the answers to each of those 6 questions you wrote or just answer them mentally?
2) is this the best overall way to improve LR?

[Audio Technica Guy]

thanks again. i hate to abuse your generosity but:

1) should i write (aka type) out the answers to each of those 6 questions you wrote or just answer them mentally?
2) is this the best overall way to improve LR?

1) as much as you can force yourself to, you should write (or type) them. For two reasons A) it's easy to fudge it when you "answer mentally" and B) because part of the reason to do this is to pick up on what type of wrong answers you are especially vulnerable to and learning how to avoid them. You need a pretty decent amount of aggregate data to pick up on this.

2) It's just one part of an overall strategy. It doesn't actually tell you how to do the questions themselves.

[declsatkiller]

July 3 -

worked through some more of the LGG - mainly a review of the linear games sections. I did 4 or 5 games and reviewed them. I'm currently able to do them and get either -0 or -1. However, I'm not consistently done in under 8:45. I suppose time isn't the issue at this point however.

I also reviewed an LR section pretty in depth. I think I'll take another section tomorrow, possibly going through and talking myself through each question and answer choice with no conscience about time as reviewing this way makes me feel like i have a greater understanding of the LR section. Plus, time really isn't something to be concerned with just yet.

Question for anyone willing to provide a quick answer: are linear games typically the easiest type of LG?
Will continue to update.
cheers

[katiem]

I thought pure sequencing was easier, but basic linear is pretty easy too.

Sounds like a solid plan. Good luck!

[Aggiegrad2011]

I would like to point out that the Logic Games contained in the green "10 Actual, Official..." book are not the same type of LG (they're from 1994/1995 IIRC) and are actually a good deal harder than they are now. This has been pointed out by LSAT Blog's main study guide.

You should get the other ones that have newer "Actual, Official" tests in them for a representative sample.

[declsatkiller]

Are harder than the ones now? that's good news.

what'd you guys do to increase speed? or did it just come iwth more and more practice?

[LawSuccess]

I just had to log in to post a big THANK YOU for this. It's easy to fudge when reviewing, and, this will help increase my discipline and mastery. Thank you again.

you need to do more than just "why right/why wrong"

For every question you get wrong, you need to be able to answer 4 questions:

1) What about the wrong answer I chose did I miss that made it wrong?
2) What about the wrong answer I chose made me like that answer?
3) What about the right answer did I miss that made it right?
4) What about the right answer did I think was wrong?

For every question you get right, you should also be able to answer two (or five, depending how you count) questions:
1) What was the reason I could eliminate each of the wrong answers
2) What made the right answer right?

The more you can write simple, concrete answers to these questions, the more quickly you will be able to nail your process of elimination on a real test. Don't allow yourself to write "just seemed wrong" or even "obviously irrelevant". You have to be able to say why that is the case.

Doing this more thorough method for 15 tests is better than just writing "right/wrong" on 30 tests.

[declsatkiller]

July 4 -

Having finished my thorough review of the previous LR practice section I took, I decided to take another practice LR section today. I took section four from practice test number seven. I was very pleased when I checked my answers and found that I had only missed one: a dumb mistake on a medium-difficulty problem. Also, I didn't get to the last two on the previous LR section I took and missed 6 including the last two. I finished with about 12 seconds to go on this test.

It seems that the very thorough review I'm doing of each question and each answer choice I'm doing for LR is increasing my understanding of the questions already; I felt much better going through it: faster and more confident. also, the curve for this test was the same as the last one I did, so I don't think it was simply the result of an easier test. at least I hope not .
have started my review for this section. will finish it in the next few days as I'm slowly working through the LG bible as well. no new progress in that department (LG/LG Bible) for the day. will do some in the next 24 hours though.
well im out!
cheers

I thought pure sequencing was easier, but basic linear is pretty easy too.

Sounds like a solid plan. Good luck!

ps..Thanks for the encouragement! and congrats on that great score of yours! (looked at your post history haha) I too am a rising junior taking it a little early...hopefully i wil find as much success as you!

[Audio Technica Guy]

Question for anyone willing to provide a quick answer: are linear games typically the easiest type of LG?

I'm not really sure of the terminology, as I haven't looked at powerscore's books in a few years now (although they're what I originally used to prep with 6 years ago).

Linear and sequencing, just from the names, sound the same to me, so I'm not sure what powerscore refers to by those terms. However, I will say that really, no one type of game is harder than others by it's type. It all comes down to the complexity of the rules and setup. Order games tend to have the easiest clues, on average, so they tend to be the easiest type. However, this has nothing to do with the task you are being asked to do. You can't just say "hey, 1-D order, easy" as there are some super hard order games. Order games with conditionals tend to suck a lot, for example. Most people don't like the witnesses/hostile witnesses game, for example, but it's just ordering.

[Eliyahu7]

Here is some friendly advice for LR.

I should point out that while it is useful to be able to identify the validity of the answer choices, it might be even more profitable for you to take a question stem based approach. In particular, this involves critically answering the following questions...

1. What is the conclusion of this argument?
2. What is the evidence (premises) offered in favor of the argument?
3. Is this a good argument (typically the answer is "no"), and why or why not?

By taking this approach you can get to the point you have an idea of what the appropriate answer is immediately after reading the question, and it is a very powerful thing (I finished both the LR sections on the June 2010 LSAT with between three to five minutes to spare)

[declsatkiller]

Here is some friendly advice for LR.

I should point out that while it is useful to be able to identify the validity of the answer choices, it might be even more profitable for you to take a question stem based approach. In particular, this involves critically answering the following questions...

1. What is the conclusion of this argument?
2. What is the evidence (premises) offered in favor of the argument?
3. Is this a good argument (typically the answer is "no"), and why or why not?

By taking this approach you can get to the point you have an idea of what the appropriate answer is immediately after reading the question, and it is a very powerful thing (I finished both the LR sections on the June 2010 LSAT with between three to five minutes to spare)

this is good stuff i think. so simple, but if you can get to the point that you can see the premises and conclusion of each argument immediately, i can see how it would be very helpful to finding the answer and finding it more quickly. thank you very much. p.s. impressive with the LR june lsat...what'd you get? (overall score and LR score) if you dont mind my asking

Question for anyone willing to provide a quick answer: are linear games typically the easiest type of LG?

I'm not really sure of the terminology, as I haven't looked at powerscore's books in a few years now (although they're what I originally used to prep with 6 years ago).

Linear and sequencing, just from the names, sound the same to me, so I'm not sure what powerscore refers to by those terms. However, I will say that really, no one type of game is harder than others by it's type. It all comes down to the complexity of the rules and setup. Order games tend to have the easiest clues, on average, so they tend to be the easiest type. However, this has nothing to do with the task you are being asked to do. You can't just say "hey, 1-D order, easy" as there are some super hard order games. Order games with conditionals tend to suck a lot, for example. Most people don't like the witnesses/hostile witnesses game, for example, but it's just ordering.

again thanks audio...this is good news i think. the linear doesn't seem to bad to me so if the others are in the same ballpark in terms of difficulty thats good news.

[Norlan]

Just curious to ask, why do you call it "Project 180"? Is your goal trying to aim for 180 on the LSAT?

[Justiceinbrothel]

you need to do more than just "why right/why wrong"

For every question you get wrong, you need to be able to answer 4 questions:

1) What about the wrong answer I chose did I miss that made it wrong?
2) What about the wrong answer I chose made me like that answer?
3) What about the right answer did I miss that made it right?
4) What about the right answer did I think was wrong?

For every question you get right, you should also be able to answer two (or five, depending how you count) questions:
1) What was the reason I could eliminate each of the wrong answers
2) What made the right answer right?

The more you can write simple, concrete answers to these questions, the more quickly you will be able to nail your process of elimination on a real test. Don't allow yourself to write "just seemed wrong" or even "obviously irrelevant". You have to be able to say why that is the case.

Doing this more thorough method for 15 tests is better than just writing "right/wrong" on 30 tests.

I don't know how much you know about the "Moving Forward" approach but this is sure that this "Why" approach is a hurdle in "Moving forward" approach. If before fighting, Army start analyzing "why" then perhaps it will be hard to even start forget about winning. Develop an "Attack" strategy instead of creating error logs, excel spread sheets and those douchebag type questions "why I got question wrong?" "What made right answer?" A concentration level is the only tool needed to nail down LSAT rest everything is "Process"; process of drawing set up, process of finding assumption, conclusion and premise, process of looking at words such as Yet, But, Though, even Though, However etc.

[Justiceinbrothel]

Just curious to ask, why do you call it "Project 180"? Is your goal trying to aim for 180 on the LSAT?

Project 180 has only one obvious interpretation and that is to score 180 in LSAT.

[declsatkiller]

Just curious to ask, why do you call it "Project 180"? Is your goal trying to aim for 180 on the LSAT?

Yeah, I'm shooting for the perfect score. Aim high, miss high.

you need to do more than just "why right/why wrong"

For every question you get wrong, you need to be able to answer 4 questions:

1) What about the wrong answer I chose did I miss that made it wrong?
2) What about the wrong answer I chose made me like that answer?
3) What about the right answer did I miss that made it right?
4) What about the right answer did I think was wrong?

For every question you get right, you should also be able to answer two (or five, depending how you count) questions:
1) What was the reason I could eliminate each of the wrong answers
2) What made the right answer right?

The more you can write simple, concrete answers to these questions, the more quickly you will be able to nail your process of elimination on a real test. Don't allow yourself to write "just seemed wrong" or even "obviously irrelevant". You have to be able to say why that is the case.

Doing this more thorough method for 15 tests is better than just writing "right/wrong" on 30 tests.

I don't know how much you know about the "Moving Forward" approach but this is sure that this "Why" approach is a hurdle in "Moving forward" approach. If before fighting, Army start analyzing "why" then perhaps it will be hard to even start forget about winning. Develop an "Attack" strategy instead of creating error logs, excel spread sheets and those douchebag type questions "why I got question wrong?" "What made right answer?" A concentration level is the only tool needed to nail down LSAT rest everything is "Process"; process of drawing set up, process of finding assumption, conclusion and premise, process of looking at words such as Yet, But, Though, even Though, However etc.

I really appreciate the advice and understand your concern of paralysis through analysis. However, I think I have enough time before the test to both really break down all of the questions, and have a near-perfect understanding of them, all the while still finding a way to ensure (through taking many practice tests) that I'll be fast enough/concentrated enough/etc to get through the section in time. So far the analysis has really helped. hoping it will continue. thanks again though i appreciate any insight.

[Audio Technica Guy]

I don't know how much you know about the "Moving Forward" approach but this is sure that this "Why" approach is a hurdle in "Moving forward" approach. If before fighting, Army start analyzing "why" then perhaps it will be hard to even start forget about winning. Develop an "Attack" strategy instead of creating error logs, excel spread sheets and those douchebag type questions "why I got question wrong?" "What made right answer?" A concentration level is the only tool needed to nail down LSAT rest everything is "Process"; process of drawing set up, process of finding assumption, conclusion and premise, process of looking at words such as Yet, But, Though, even Though, However etc.

Not to be a douchebag or anything, but this contains about 30 logical flaws.
1) First of all, the army does ask "why" about a whole lot of things. They don't just blindly jump in and start killing, or at least to the extent they are successful, they don't. Secondly, this is about as big of a comparison flaw as you will find.
2) I'm not even sure what you mean by an "attack" strategy. YOu realize you can't just say "attack strategy commence" and get LSAT questions right. You actually have to have an approach.
3) Understanding why you got a question wrong is a "douchebag question"? Seriously?
4) I don't even know what "A concentration level is the only tool needed to nail down LSAT rest everything is "Process"" means. Your sentence seems to contradict itself, as you start by saying that a concentration level is all that is needed, then you go on to say that you need a process, which you just kind of mention that its important and needed, but don't say much about.

If you're suggesting that being thorough when reviewing you practice tests is counterproductive, well then you have no idea what you're talking about. This isn't some sort of strategy that kinda sorta worked for me. This is a strategy that I've literally helped over a thousand students with. The biggest flaw is you don't even really clearly state what declsatkiller can actually do to help himself. I hope that you can realize that you can't just use the terms "Moving Forward" and "attack strategy" like they're actually helpful. That could very easily be a Dilbert cartoon, where the boss just uses those terms like magic wands that solve all problems. Unless you actually give some way to implement this "attack strategy" or "process" or show us how to be "moving forward" then your post is not just useless, its actually harmful.

[Nikrall]

I don't know how much you know about the "Moving Forward" approach but this is sure that this "Why" approach is a hurdle in "Moving forward" approach. If before fighting, Army start analyzing "why" then perhaps it will be hard to even start forget about winning. Develop an "Attack" strategy instead of creating error logs, excel spread sheets and those douchebag type questions "why I got question wrong?" "What made right answer?" A concentration level is the only tool needed to nail down LSAT rest everything is "Process"; process of drawing set up, process of finding assumption, conclusion and premise, process of looking at words such as Yet, But, Though, even Though, However etc.

Not to be a douchebag or anything, but this contains about 30 logical flaws.
1) First of all, the army does ask "why" about a whole lot of things. They don't just blindly jump in and start killing, or at least to the extent they are successful, they don't. Secondly, this is about as big of a comparison flaw as you will find.
2) I'm not even sure what you mean by an "attack" strategy. YOu realize you can't just say "attack strategy commence" and get LSAT questions right. You actually have to have an approach.
3) Understanding why you got a question wrong is a "douchebag question"? Seriously?
4) I don't even know what "A concentration level is the only tool needed to nail down LSAT rest everything is "Process"" means. Your sentence seems to contradict itself, as you start by saying that a concentration level is all that is needed, then you go on to say that you need a process, which you just kind of mention that its important and needed, but don't say much about.

If you're suggesting that being thorough when reviewing you practice tests is counterproductive, well then you have no idea what you're talking about. This isn't some sort of strategy that kinda sorta worked for me. This is a strategy that I've literally helped over a thousand students with. The biggest flaw is you don't even really clearly state what declsatkiller can actually do to help himself. I hope that you can realize that you can't just use the terms "Moving Forward" and "attack strategy" like they're actually helpful. That could very easily be a Dilbert cartoon, where the boss just uses those terms like magic wands that solve all problems. Unless you actually give some way to implement this "attack strategy" or "process" or show us how to be "moving forward" then your post is not just useless, its actually harmful.

+1.

Also, logic is unintuitive. Parts of it don't actually make that much intuitive sense (although you can figure it out). And as humans we tend to really, really suck at it. If you are getting questions wrong because you don't know logic the answer isn't to concentrate harder its to, well, learn logic.

[declsatkiller]

July 5th

Probably only did LSAT stuff today for an 1.5 hours or so...not bad i guess when i think about it (it's 159 days away, after all). it just seems like i did even less than that because with this new approach im using (a combination of audio and eliy's suggestions above), its taking me a very long time to review each question from the section i recently did. this is totally fine though; i really feel like combining their suggestions is dynamite for LR. it's helping me "see" the mechanics of the argument much more quickly, and also to break down each answer choice too.

Will definitely continue to review this way: break down premises and conclusion of each and every argument and subsequently will break down each answer choice, why i chose it/why i didn't, why it's right/why it's wrong.

Will continue review of previous test section i took tomorrow and will probably work through some more of the LGB as well.

will take another LR section soon to see if that -1 was a fluke or not.

cheers

[Norlan]

Just curious to ask, why do you call it "Project 180"? Is your goal trying to aim for 180 on the LSAT?

Yeah, I'm shooting for the perfect score. Aim high, miss high.

sounds good, that's actually my goal too and i'm also getting ready for Oct 2010

I'll keep checking in and following up on this thread, i havent completely read thru this thread yet but i'll keep reading

post away your daily study diary, study strategies, study materials, etc...

I'm studying the Kaplan 2011 LSAT atm as we speak

[cavebat2000]

you need to do more than just "why right/why wrong"

For every question you get wrong, you need to be able to answer 4 questions:

1) What about the wrong answer I chose did I miss that made it wrong?
2) What about the wrong answer I chose made me like that answer?
3) What about the right answer did I miss that made it right?
4) What about the right answer did I think was wrong?

For every question you get right, you should also be able to answer two (or five, depending how you count) questions:
1) What was the reason I could eliminate each of the wrong answers
2) What made the right answer right?

The more you can write simple, concrete answers to these questions, the more quickly you will be able to nail your process of elimination on a real test. Don't allow yourself to write "just seemed wrong" or even "obviously irrelevant". You have to be able to say why that is the case.

Doing this more thorough method for 15 tests is better than just writing "right/wrong" on 30 tests.

Best advice for getting a 180 that I've heard yet.