June 2010 LSAT takers: How did you do?

Which range does your June 2010 LSAT score belong to?

177-180
13
15%
174-176
4
5%
170-173
24
28%
165-169
16
19%
160-164
14
16%
154-159
12
14%
147-153
1
1%
140-146
0
No votes
120-139
1
1%
 
Total votes: 85

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HiLine
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June 2010 LSAT takers: How did you do?

Postby HiLine » Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:25 am

Many people say the June LSAT is the toughest one of the year; yet many other test takers do not see a difference in difficulty level between the June administration and the others. Your response to the poll will be very helpful for solving the dispute.

And if you have experience with multiple LSAT administrations, please share that with us.

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HiLine
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Re: June 2010 LSAT takers: How did you do?

Postby HiLine » Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:42 am

If you'd like to tell us your score, please go ahead. :D

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HiLine
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Re: June 2010 LSAT takers: How did you do?

Postby HiLine » Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:49 am

Bump

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HiLine
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Re: June 2010 LSAT takers: How did you do?

Postby HiLine » Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:03 pm

Bump. Probably the last time. Please vote if you haven't done so already.

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Anaconda
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Re: June 2010 LSAT takers: How did you do?

Postby Anaconda » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:16 pm

88% over a 160 - this is really encouraging :)

Btw, I'm sure a lot of the people that took the June LSAT are long gone, I think most people left on here are taking it (or retaking it) in Oct/Dec.

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redsox
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Re: June 2010 LSAT takers: How did you do?

Postby redsox » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:23 pm

HiLine wrote:Many people say the June LSAT is the toughest one of the year; yet many other test takers do not see a difference in difficulty level between the June administration and the others. Your response to the poll will be very helpful for solving the dispute.

And if you have experience with multiple LSAT administrations, please share that with us.


How will responses to this poll solve the dispute? The percentiles associated with each score are published. Explain how this is in any was useful to anyone.

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PLATONiC
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Re: June 2010 LSAT takers: How did you do?

Postby PLATONiC » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:30 pm

redsox wrote:
HiLine wrote:Many people say the June LSAT is the toughest one of the year; yet many other test takers do not see a difference in difficulty level between the June administration and the others. Your response to the poll will be very helpful for solving the dispute.

And if you have experience with multiple LSAT administrations, please share that with us.


How will responses to this poll solve the dispute? The percentiles associated with each score are published. Explain how this is in any was useful to anyone.


+1

I lied on my vote too.

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HiLine
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Re: June 2010 LSAT takers: How did you do?

Postby HiLine » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:38 pm

redsox wrote:
HiLine wrote:Many people say the June LSAT is the toughest one of the year; yet many other test takers do not see a difference in difficulty level between the June administration and the others. Your response to the poll will be very helpful for solving the dispute.

And if you have experience with multiple LSAT administrations, please share that with us.


How will responses to this poll solve the dispute? The percentiles associated with each score are published. Explain how this is in any was useful to anyone.


The basic idea is that if the score distribution for the June administration looks lower than that for other administrations of the year for TLS members, that suggests the June LSAT might be harder. This evidence is by no means conclusive, but definitely helpful.

WestOfTheRest
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Re: June 2010 LSAT takers: How did you do?

Postby WestOfTheRest » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:49 pm

HiLine wrote:
redsox wrote:
HiLine wrote:Many people say the June LSAT is the toughest one of the year; yet many other test takers do not see a difference in difficulty level between the June administration and the others. Your response to the poll will be very helpful for solving the dispute.

And if you have experience with multiple LSAT administrations, please share that with us.


How will responses to this poll solve the dispute? The percentiles associated with each score are published. Explain how this is in any was useful to anyone.


The basic idea is that if the score distribution for the June administration looks lower than that for other administrations of the year for TLS members, that suggests the June LSAT might be harder. This evidence is by no means conclusive, but definitely helpful.

You have this all backwards. Traditionally, June LSATs are easier than other administrations. This is not me just making statements, this is fact. June LSATs typically have a smaller curve, on average by 1 point from the december test. The reason that it is called the harder test is because of the tighter curve. a tighter curve is terrible for high scoring individuals as most high scorers tend to get the same number of questions wrong regardless of the curve.

This LSAT had a really loose curve at -12. Most high scorers are going to say that this was an easy test because of the loose curve. But like I said, this test does not follow the averages.

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HiLine
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Re: June 2010 LSAT takers: How did you do?

Postby HiLine » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:08 am

I did not rule out the possibility that the June LSAT is actually easier than other tests. Whether your conclusion is fact is debatable, but the poll result thus far seems to confirm your hypothesis.

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ArchRoark
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Re: June 2010 LSAT takers: How did you do?

Postby ArchRoark » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:42 pm

My anecdotal observation is that the June '10 was for me easier to about average. The logical reasoning was average to slightly above average in difficulty. While the games and the reading comprehension seemed easier (I aced both sections on the June test). Although games have always been one my strengths one of the games actually threw me off. I miss-diagrammed one of the rules but I had time when going back to realize my mistake and rework the entire game. The RC I actually enjoyed the passages and that allowed me to absorb the information more effectively. The RC had always been the most difficult and unpredictable portion of the LSAT for me... I ranged from 0-6 questions missed on PTs... averaging probably in the 2-3 range.

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redsox
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Re: June 2010 LSAT takers: How did you do?

Postby redsox » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:21 pm

HiLine wrote:The basic idea is that if the score distribution for the June administration looks lower than that for other administrations of the year for TLS members, that suggests the June LSAT might be harder. This evidence is by no means conclusive, but definitely helpful.


Again, the distribution is published. This poll is useless.

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HiLine
Posts: 210
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Re: June 2010 LSAT takers: How did you do?

Postby HiLine » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:45 pm

redsox wrote:
HiLine wrote:The basic idea is that if the score distribution for the June administration looks lower than that for other administrations of the year for TLS members, that suggests the June LSAT might be harder. This evidence is by no means conclusive, but definitely helpful.


Again, the distribution is published. This poll is useless.


I told you my reasoning. Please prove where I am wrong if you can.

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TommyK
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Re: June 2010 LSAT takers: How did you do?

Postby TommyK » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:52 pm

HiLine wrote:
redsox wrote:
HiLine wrote:The basic idea is that if the score distribution for the June administration looks lower than that for other administrations of the year for TLS members, that suggests the June LSAT might be harder. This evidence is by no means conclusive, but definitely helpful.


Again, the distribution is published. This poll is useless.


I told you my reasoning. Please prove where I am wrong if you can.


Gosh, I'm not sure where to start. I have concerns that you don't have a clear grasp on how the LSAT is scored. The scores are curved, so somebody who gets a 160, should get ~160 on a really hard lsat and a really easy lsat, since the scores are normalized. So having a poll to see how people did doesn't solve the so called dispute at all.

You could also argue there's a huge selection bias for people who take the June test. Perhaps people who are ahead of the game and not taking it as a whim, or a last-minute decision take it, and they also tend to be the group that scores higher. You could also say that the October test is filled with June retakers, who tend to score higher after realization of the test's nature and on the whole contains more people who have put some serious studying time in it. These, of course are contrary theories to each other, but just examples of how this (even if you showed that there is a statistically different average score between the tests), it wouldn't prove anything.

I would describe this as a 1 star logical reasoning question.

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HiLine
Posts: 210
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Re: June 2010 LSAT takers: How did you do?

Postby HiLine » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:09 am

TommyK wrote:Gosh, I'm not sure where to start. I have concerns that you don't have a clear grasp on how the LSAT is scored. The scores are curved, so somebody who gets a 160, should get ~160 on a really hard lsat and a really easy lsat, since the scores are normalized. So having a poll to see how people did doesn't solve the so called dispute at all.



Of course if you assume that the 'normalization' (using your word) is done perfectly, all tests should be about equally hard. If it can be proved that some tests are harder than others, then the normalization process is not perfectly done. That is why I call it a 'dispute.' You can call the 'normalization' that LSAC carries out a black box and we're trying to figure out what's really in that box.

WestOfTheRest
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Re: June 2010 LSAT takers: How did you do?

Postby WestOfTheRest » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:12 am

HiLine wrote:
TommyK wrote:Gosh, I'm not sure where to start. I have concerns that you don't have a clear grasp on how the LSAT is scored. The scores are curved, so somebody who gets a 160, should get ~160 on a really hard lsat and a really easy lsat, since the scores are normalized. So having a poll to see how people did doesn't solve the so called dispute at all.



Of course if you assume that the 'normalization' (using your word) is done perfectly, all tests should be about equally hard. If it can be proved that some tests are harder than others, then the normalization process is not perfectly done. That is why I call it a 'dispute.' You can call the 'normalization' that LSAC carries out a black box and we're trying to figure out what's really in that box.

Umm, wrong. It's not even close to a "black box". The process used is called statistical equating. I'm not going to explain to you how statistical equating works since I have explained it way too many times on this forum, but if you google it you can find articles and academic journals regarding the matter.

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HiLine
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Re: June 2010 LSAT takers: How did you do?

Postby HiLine » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:17 am

CastleRock wrote:Umm, wrong. It's not even close to a "black box". The process used is called statistical equating. I'm not going to explain to you how statistical equating works since I have explained it way too many times on this forum, but if you google it you can find articles and academic journals regarding the matter.


What I called 'black box' is the degree of precision that the statistical equating is carried out by LSAC. I have read many threads on this topic, so you don't have to explain the term to me again. Thank you for your previous explanations though; I might've come across one of them while browsing the forum. Since I didn't remember the exact terminology, I chose to use TommyK's wording instead, with quotation marks.

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TommyK
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Re: June 2010 LSAT takers: How did you do?

Postby TommyK » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:29 am

HiLine wrote:
CastleRock wrote:Umm, wrong. It's not even close to a "black box". The process used is called statistical equating. I'm not going to explain to you how statistical equating works since I have explained it way too many times on this forum, but if you google it you can find articles and academic journals regarding the matter.


What I called 'black box' is the degree of precision that the statistical equating is carried out by LSAC. I have read many threads on this topic, so you don't have to explain the term to me again. Thank you for your previous explanations though; I might've come across one of them while browsing the forum. Since I didn't remember the exact terminology, I chose to use TommyK's wording instead, with quotation marks.


Alright, at best you're measuring the wrong metric. To determine the difficulty of the test, the better piece would be to measure the # wrong. This is the only piece that really should be moving much from test to test. -16 might get you a 165 one test, and on another -20 might get you 165. I would say that this might be indication that the second test is a bit harder.

What I was trying to explain to you is because each test has a scaled score, each person who takes a test, is very likely to get a very similar scaled score if he/she is to take another. The LSAT takes in account which test is harder/easier. It's not like if we had a much easier June LSAT, there would have been WAY more 170's.

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HiLine
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Re: June 2010 LSAT takers: How did you do?

Postby HiLine » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:04 am

TommyK wrote:
Alright, at best you're measuring the wrong metric. To determine the difficulty of the test, the better piece would be to measure the # wrong. This is the only piece that really should be moving much from test to test. -16 might get you a 165 one test, and on another -20 might get you 165. I would say that this might be indication that the second test is a bit harder.

What I was trying to explain to you is because each test has a scaled score, each person who takes a test, is very likely to get a very similar scaled score if he/she is to take another. The LSAT takes in account which test is harder/easier. It's not like if we had a much easier June LSAT, there would have been WAY more 170's.


I meant exactly what I said; determining the difficulty of the test based on raw scores is pointless: after all what you care about is the scaled score. You, too, are assuming that LSAC equates different tests perfectly, an assumption that many people question, hence the dispute over whether the June test is harder than other tests. Yes, you should say the same thing as you did above to people who suspect that the June test is harder than normal; that could make a good argument. Here, however, we are assuming that the precision of the equating method is unknown.

TommyK wrote:It's not like if we had a much easier June LSAT, there would have been WAY more 170's.


Ceteris paribus, yes.




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