Retaking October Thread

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Knock
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby Knock » Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:33 am

bostonlawchick wrote:
Knockglock wrote:
bostonlawchick wrote:
Knockglock wrote:
I think nerves/anxiety was my biggest problem. Or maybe just feeling the rush. It felt so much faster on test day, and I was hurting for time on LG / RC I guess. Endurance wasn't a problem for me, I don't think. -0 LR for the 5th section.



Wow Knock we really are twins... 171 and I also got -0 in my last section.


haha wow. hopefully we crush it this time! i'm still disappointed :'(. can't believe i'm going to have to deal with this for another four months :'(.


I hear ya. I was so ambivalent. I told myself I wouldn't retake unless I got below a 170, but the more I think about it the worse I feel. I know I can do better. It's hard to let go of my NYU dreams. This experience will only help us though. We'll kill it in October.

I'm not going to start studying again til August. I was really haphazard last time, so I think I'm going to buy more of the recent tests and try to get my timing down. I got really flustered on LG when I ran out of time. Til August though, it's relax, enjoy summer, and write my PS/DS.


Yeah, I completely agree. Part of me wonders if I burnt myself out a little bit without realizing it. I guess i'll never know. But I definitely know I need a good solid break from the LSAT. I'm going to study a lot less this time. I already know the basics, just need to get sharp again when time comes and not let nerves get me on LG/RC.

I know exactly what you mean, it's hard to let go of your dream school. Here's hoping that the 2nd time will be the charm. Either way....there's not going to be a 3rd for me lol.

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Dr. Strangelove
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby Dr. Strangelove » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:04 am

I don't think I'm going to be taking the LSAT with you guys this October- I plan to wait till June 2011 once I graduate from college.
I may sneak in an application to Fordham if I get a 4.0 this semester but besides that, it's not worth it to apply to most places right now or even to retake.
Best of luck to all of you though!

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krmalek
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby krmalek » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:09 am

My score was atrocious, guys.

I'm pretty sure most of you would go Jonestown on everyone around you with my score.

I don't know if I have it in me to do it again. I put forth a genuine effort and it was bad bad bad.

PrincessLexiRae
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby PrincessLexiRae » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:29 am

Here we go again...I wish my score could have been what I wanted. But I know in October my score will be perfect! :) Time to hit the books...

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alicrimson
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby alicrimson » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:33 am

krmalek wrote:My score was atrocious, guys.

I'm pretty sure most of you would go Jonestown on everyone around you with my score.

I don't know if I have it in me to do it again. I put forth a genuine effort and it was bad bad bad.


I think you should retake. If you think you could do better, if you're aiming for a school that isn't average happy, and you really want to be a lawyer/get into the school of your choosing [assuming its not HYS] you have nothing to lose. Yeah, its kind of expensive but that's really just a drop in the bucket long term. I say if practicing law is what you really want to do, you just restudy [yeah, it will suck], work on the other parts of the application, and kick the shit out of it in October. The cool thing about taking it in June is you can retake October and still have your apps in really early so long as you get on the other parts of the process.

ebl1014
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby ebl1014 » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:36 am

A posted this as a topic in the admissions forum but I want to get input from you guys because almost everyone on this thread is in a somewhat similar boat. My big decision is whether or not to retake in October or retake in June and apply next year instead of this year. Here are the criteria and info:

My target schools are NYU, Georgetown, Columbia... My LSDAS GPA is a 3.47, and I got a 164 on my June '10 LSAT (I am going to retake). My target was a 170 (had PT'ed mostly around 165, with one 174 as my last PT). The breakdown was LR -1, LG -13, LR -3, RC -3. It's pretty obvious where the weak link is, and I feel like a 170 is still within reach. I only had prepped for a month before the LSAT this time.

Here's the redeeming GPA trajectory, but I want to know how much you guys think it will be worth, especially to such competitive schools: (these are LSDAS calculated GPAs by the way)

(Sociology Major and Political Science Minor at good state school... "good" as far as state schools go)

Freshman Year- 2.36 (a serious drug problem almost led to the loss of a parent & I was not able to handle it being 2,000 miles away at school and admittedly immature)
Sophomore Year- 3.75
Junior Year- 3.97
Senior Year- 3.8 (3.89 if I delay applying for a year and include my grades from my electives that I need to take in the fall)

I have a couple questions regarding this trajectory and retaking the LSAT:

- Would it be worth it to delay my applications for another year and include the 4 electives that I need to take this fall in order to graduate and retake in June '11 instead of this October (after I teach a Kaplan LSAT course over the school year)? (I am pretty confident that I can ace the electives, which would bring my LSDAS GPA up from a 3.47 to a 3.53)


Pretty much, my two options are to retake it in October, pray that I get the score, and apply as soon as I get my LSAT score. This would mean that the four electives won't get put into my LSDAS GPA before the application. The one redeeming quality is that I wouldn't be delaying law school by a year.
Second option is to take it in June of next year and apply in Fall '11. This would give me a year to work, intern, and teach a Kaplan course thus really improve my softs. It would also include the 4 elective classes and increase my GPA. Say what you want about Kaplan (the method doesn't always work for me, and I don't swear by the method when I test, but I can teach it), but I think/have heard that teaching a course and being immersed in it would do wonders for my LSAT score. The drawback to this one is that I delay applying to law school for a year. Worth it? (I think yes... but maybe I'm just trying to avoid doing the LSAT crunch so soon)

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OklahomasOK
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby OklahomasOK » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:41 am

Throwing my hat in the ring as well. I'm not picking up a book until late July... if that.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby Patriot1208 » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:44 am

ebl1014 wrote:A posted this as a topic in the admissions forum but I want to get input from you guys because almost everyone on this thread is in a somewhat similar boat. My big decision is whether or not to retake in October or retake in June and apply next year instead of this year. Here are the criteria and info:

My target schools are NYU, Georgetown, Columbia... My LSDAS GPA is a 3.47, and I got a 164 on my June '10 LSAT (I am going to retake). My target was a 170 (had PT'ed mostly around 165, with one 174 as my last PT). The breakdown was LR -1, LG -13, LR -3, RC -3. It's pretty obvious where the weak link is, and I feel like a 170 is still within reach. I only had prepped for a month before the LSAT this time.

Here's the redeeming GPA trajectory, but I want to know how much you guys think it will be worth, especially to such competitive schools: (these are LSDAS calculated GPAs by the way)

(Sociology Major and Political Science Minor at good state school... "good" as far as state schools go)

Freshman Year- 2.36 (a serious drug problem almost led to the loss of a parent & I was not able to handle it being 2,000 miles away at school and admittedly immature)
Sophomore Year- 3.75
Junior Year- 3.97
Senior Year- 3.8 (3.89 if I delay applying for a year and include my grades from my electives that I need to take in the fall)

I have a couple questions regarding this trajectory and retaking the LSAT:

- Would it be worth it to delay my applications for another year and include the 4 electives that I need to take this fall in order to graduate and retake in June '11 instead of this October (after I teach a Kaplan LSAT course over the school year)? (I am pretty confident that I can ace the electives, which would bring my LSDAS GPA up from a 3.47 to a 3.53)


Pretty much, my two options are to retake it in October, pray that I get the score, and apply as soon as I get my LSAT score. This would mean that the four electives won't get put into my LSDAS GPA before the application. The one redeeming quality is that I wouldn't be delaying law school by a year.
Second option is to take it in June of next year and apply in Fall '11. This would give me a year to work, intern, and teach a Kaplan course thus really improve my softs. It would also include the 4 elective classes and increase my GPA. Say what you want about Kaplan (the method doesn't always work for me, and I don't swear by the method when I test, but I can teach it), but I think/have heard that teaching a course and being immersed in it would do wonders for my LSAT score. The drawback to this one is that I delay applying to law school for a year. Worth it? (I think yes... but maybe I'm just trying to avoid doing the LSAT crunch so soon)


Unless your an URM you aren't getting into those schools unless you retake and do A LOT better. A 170 probably isn't even getting you into Georgetown and zero chance at columbia and nyu.

AmbitiousPanda
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby AmbitiousPanda » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:00 am

good morning fellow retakers-

lsacnet.org has a study on "repeater data," anyone else shocked that only 24.5 end up retaking or does that seem about right?

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alicrimson
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby alicrimson » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:24 am

Well, I will for sure be contributing to that data set as I already paid 200 plus dollars for a retake and new study materials and I will be damned if I let that go to waste. lol. Now that I've paid, I'm locked in.

ebl1014
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby ebl1014 » Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:52 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
Unless your an URM you aren't getting into those schools unless you retake and do A LOT better. A 170 probably isn't even getting you into Georgetown and zero chance at columbia and nyu.



Good call. I was putting too much weight on trajectory and LSAT score improvement.

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Albatross
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby Albatross » Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:03 pm

With a mother fucking 162, I had to decide whether I was going to drown myself in the bay or retake in October. I figured it'd be too hard to drown myself, so here I am. Maybe I'll drink some oil out at Florabama.

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FuManChusco
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby FuManChusco » Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:15 pm

I think I'm jumping into the ring. I don't see any serious disadvantage in retaking. I have all summer to study and a 170 already in the bag. My main concern is scoring 165-169, but I'd really like a 173, so it's time to suck it up. This is the last thing I wanted to do. Going to drill RC over and over and over and do a few PTs in the month leading up to the exam. Still going to meet with my advisor and talk about it, but I think this is the right decision.

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pu_golf88
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby pu_golf88 » Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:19 pm

Well it looks like I'll be studying for a retake with you guys. Didn't do nearly as well as I planned.

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queenlizzie13
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby queenlizzie13 » Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:43 pm

I think I'll be retaking. *throws hat in the ring* Though I'm concerned that this will be the third time.
sept 09: 152, this one: 161

I'm thinking I should retake with my GPA (it is a 3.88 LSDAS) but do most schools look down on taking it a third time? The first score was kind of a fluke, I took the LSAT with the thought that I might want to go to law school straight out of undergrad and didn't really study, naively thinking I would get a decent score.

Second time took blueprint. Now I'm thinking about doing the TLS way with the bibles and as many PT's as possible.

simpson89
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby simpson89 » Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:49 pm

I'm in on this too! WE WILL DESTROY THE OCTOBER TEST!!!

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Non-Chalant1
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:12 pm

Just cracked open the power score LG bible...just the basic intro stuff to keep the mind fresh. I'll probably be reading for the rest of the month (just basic stuff) and working on my PS and DS. There is an internship opportunity, but I think I'll blow it off because it's just something at a state court that I don't know if I feel like doing or if it'll help me in anyway. This is probably the worst part about the retake....I lost my internships because no one wanted to wait and I didn't think I could work/study.

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goawaybee
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby goawaybee » Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:55 pm

FuManChusco wrote:I think I'm jumping into the ring. I don't see any serious disadvantage in retaking. I have all summer to study and a 170 already in the bag. My main concern is scoring 165-169, but I'd really like a 173, so it's time to suck it up. This is the last thing I wanted to do. Going to drill RC over and over and over and do a few PTs in the month leading up to the exam. Still going to meet with my advisor and talk about it, but I think this is the right decision.


I think you can plow through a bit and do better. I was saying to KG. Many of you have it down, just need to get the nerve things under control, some of it is often luck of the dram on a few random q's. You all have plenty of time. Part of me wishes all of you weren't rocking the hell out of the PT's so hard score wise b/c you wouldn't be as hard on yourself right now.

Just gotta back off it for a few days, if you keep pushing on yourself it will allow the test to have the upper hand. not the way to approach it. Many of you performed well. Honestly look at the % of overall test takers. Can each of you do better ? HELL YES. just gotta stay focused and own the damn thing instead of letting it eat your brain/ego up.

I did like -15 worse than my avg. that is horrific, but I know I can beat it down. I did so poorly it was laughable, I would have to pay sticker at a shit trap school. Doesn't feel good. F*ck the LSAT though, no 100 questions is going to bum me out and make it seem like I can't live my life exactly how i want. Just got the better of me.

Tweak your methods. take some time and let yourself be human for a week or two. Remember what is done is done. Learn from your experience. Fill in the gaps, plug the holes, dial it in a bit more. Don't stress yourselves out. Sufficient/Necessary in real life is a completely different monster than an LR question.

Shake it off, get back in the ring and destroy it. Gotta believe in the self.


BEAST LE FUCK out on it, but please allow yourself to enjoy your life a little bit. Balance folks. Focus on fun, lay off the sauce. Many of you don't have to put in 100's of hours as you did previously. Feel good about that. I have 15-300 hours ahead of me. Would you rather be in my shoes ? Not fun, but FULSAT.

Positive energy is necessary at this point.

GL to all.

OWN THAT SH@T.

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fastforward
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby fastforward » Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:45 pm

A few observations from an LSAT tutor:

Many of you mention that you hit well below your PT's. This is a certain indicator of the need for stress management. You should prepare for this aspect of the test with as much diligence as you devote to the test content. One stress management technique, developed as a treatment for anxiety but now popular with world-class athletes, is Progressive Muscle Relaxation, or PMR. Once mastered, it's a powerful tool for leveling your energy and freeing your brain to do its best. You'll find many free downloads of PMR programs if you Google the term. My favorite collection of PMR -- and other relaxation/breathing techniques for de-stressing -- is here:
http://students.georgiasouthern.edu/cou ... elax07.htm
Regular practice of deep breathing techniques, combined with PMR, produces an automatic, muscle-memory response to relax at the onset of anxiety. The result is vastly improved clarity of thought, better sleep patterns, and a general sense of confidence and well-being. But it's an acquired skill, so it's best to begin at once.

Some of you tanked on the fifth section. This probably indicates an endurance problem. Consider many five-and six-section PT's, especially in the month before Game Day. They can be enough to make you gag, but I guarantee they do improve your mental toughness. If you don't feel you'll apply yourself if you know which are the "experimental sections" (which you put together from the older PT's), have a friend do a little cut-and-paste graphics job and put them together for you. It's a bit of a pain but worth it if you need that crutch. Cambridge LSAT has put together some 5-Section tests, and you can purchase them in pdf files (yes, they ARE legal and the publisher IS an LSAC licensee) instantly for download
--LinkRemoved--

Those who were hit by RC have mentioned reading this summer, especially complex materials such as The Economist. That's a great idea as far as it goes, but you also should commit to routinely tackling actual RC sections. This is so for at least two reasons: The most sophisticated periodicals out there are no match for those garbled RC passages. Try underlining the subject and predicate of the more complex sentences as you read; a favorite trick of lsac is to entwine these two components in a morass of subordinate clauses and prepositional phrases. Thus the next reason for faithfully tackling RC PT's: It's the only way you'll develop an intuitive sense of what the test-takers expect. That's why RC is the most challenging for tutors; it can be difficult to discern a pattern of weakness.

For LR, a great free resource is the podcast series, Logic in Everyday Life: http://www.princetonreview.com/lsat-logic.aspx
Each podcast takes an example of argumentation from a TV ad or a political speech and analyzes it in terms of LR. Please don't mistake my recommending something published by Princeton Review as any enthusiasm by me for that company (but to each his own of course; apologies to Admin Ken). Each 'cast is just a few minutes long and, if you listen daily, you will see your LR mindset improve.

As for LG: Know your conditional statements cold. You may think you already do, but you CAN improve. I'm convinced that one reason (of several) the dreaded dinosaur game from PT 57 threw so many test-takers is the phrasing of the conditional rules. Go through your LG's and note the phrasing of each conditional statement. You may want to make flash cards. I'm working on a set and I'll post a template when they're complete. Improving your recognition of the correct form of any conditional statement will improve both accuracy and speed on LG's. Of course, you must also practice, practice, practice. If a certain game type gives you trouble, consider getting a set of that type. Cambridge has them in sets for a very good price: http://www.cambridgelsat.com/product/ls ... c_games/23

I have a bias against classes, but I feel that they make especially little sense for the re-taker. You already know the basics. Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result. What this means for some of you is that just drilling through the PT's may not be the answer either. Re-takers need to "study smart." You each will need something different. I would suggest, as a first step, analyzing each missed question by type (e.g. LR Most Strongly Supported, RC Main Point, etc.). Do this on your actual test, and on your old PT's if you still have them. If you have trouble identifying your weaknesses, a tutor can be a valuable tool. There are many of us out there; be sure you can visit with one to see whether you will be compatible as to learning/teaching style AND your individual needs BEFORE you are required to pay for a session. The right tutor, the best teaching tools (PowerScore Bibles IMO), and of course plenty of actual LSAT PT sections, and timed PT's can be the most effective -- and cost-effective prep.

The point is: You have to figure out exactly what went wrong last time and change it up accordingly. The retake process actually can be quite satisfying if you view it as an opportunity to complete a work in progress.

My very best to you all.

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cinefile 17
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby cinefile 17 » Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:07 pm

fastforward wrote:A few observations from an LSAT tutor:

Many of you mention that you hit well below your PT's. This is a certain indicator of the need for stress management. You should prepare for this aspect of the test with as much diligence as you devote to the test content. One stress management technique, developed as a treatment for anxiety but now popular with world-class athletes, is Progressive Muscle Relaxation, or PMR. Once mastered, it's a powerful tool for leveling your energy and freeing your brain to do its best. You'll find many free downloads of PMR programs if you Google the term. My favorite collection of PMR -- and other relaxation/breathing techniques for de-stressing -- is here:
http://students.georgiasouthern.edu/cou ... elax07.htm
Regular practice of deep breathing techniques, combined with PMR, produces an automatic, muscle-memory response to relax at the onset of anxiety. The result is vastly improved clarity of thought, better sleep patterns, and a general sense of confidence and well-being. But it's an acquired skill, so it's best to begin at once.

Some of you tanked on the fifth section. This probably indicates an endurance problem. Consider many five-and six-section PT's, especially in the month before Game Day. They can be enough to make you gag, but I guarantee they do improve your mental toughness. If you don't feel you'll apply yourself if you know which are the "experimental sections" (which you put together from the older PT's), have a friend do a little cut-and-paste graphics job and put them together for you. It's a bit of a pain but worth it if you need that crutch. Cambridge LSAT has put together some 5-Section tests, and you can purchase them in pdf files (yes, they ARE legal and the publisher IS an LSAC licensee) instantly for download
--LinkRemoved--

Those who were hit by RC have mentioned reading this summer, especially complex materials such as The Economist. That's a great idea as far as it goes, but you also should commit to routinely tackling actual RC sections. This is so for at least two reasons: The most sophisticated periodicals out there are no match for those garbled RC passages. Try underlining the subject and predicate of the more complex sentences as you read; a favorite trick of lsac is to entwine these two components in a morass of subordinate clauses and prepositional phrases. Thus the next reason for faithfully tackling RC PT's: It's the only way you'll develop an intuitive sense of what the test-takers expect. That's why RC is the most challenging for tutors; it can be difficult to discern a pattern of weakness.

For LR, a great free resource is the podcast series, Logic in Everyday Life: http://www.princetonreview.com/lsat-logic.aspx
Each podcast takes an example of argumentation from a TV ad or a political speech and analyzes it in terms of LR. Please don't mistake my recommending something published by Princeton Review as any enthusiasm by me for that company (but to each his own of course; apologies to Admin Ken). Each 'cast is just a few minutes long and, if you listen daily, you will see your LR mindset improve.

As for LG: Know your conditional statements cold. You may think you already do, but you CAN improve. I'm convinced that one reason (of several) the dreaded dinosaur game from PT 57 threw so many test-takers is the phrasing of the conditional rules. Go through your LG's and note the phrasing of each conditional statement. You may want to make flash cards. I'm working on a set and I'll post a template when they're complete. Improving your recognition of the correct form of any conditional statement will improve both accuracy and speed on LG's. Of course, you must also practice, practice, practice. If a certain game type gives you trouble, consider getting a set of that type. Cambridge has them in sets for a very good price: http://www.cambridgelsat.com/product/ls ... c_games/23

I have a bias against classes, but I feel that they make especially little sense for the re-taker. You already know the basics. Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result. What this means for some of you is that just drilling through the PT's may not be the answer either. Re-takers need to "study smart." You each will need something different. I would suggest, as a first step, analyzing each missed question by type (e.g. LR Most Strongly Supported, RC Main Point, etc.). Do this on your actual test, and on your old PT's if you still have them. If you have trouble identifying your weaknesses, a tutor can be a valuable tool. There are many of us out there; be sure you can visit with one to see whether you will be compatible as to learning/teaching style AND your individual needs BEFORE you are required to pay for a session. The right tutor, the best teaching tools (PowerScore Bibles IMO), and of course plenty of actual LSAT PT sections, and timed PT's can be the most effective -- and cost-effective prep.

The point is: You have to figure out exactly what went wrong last time and change it up accordingly. The retake process actually can be quite satisfying if you view it as an opportunity to complete a work in progress.

My very best to you all.


Good advice. Thanks for posting.

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FuManChusco
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby FuManChusco » Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:13 pm

Good advice. I just need to drill RC. I'm pissed I got it as an experimental and the 5th section. Really screwed me. LR was good. Couple of focus errors. LG was perfect in 27 minutes. I'm just pissed I wasted a -12 curve. I think ill be good with limited study. I probably won't touch LG or LR until september.

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Knock
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby Knock » Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:16 pm

FuManChusco wrote:Good advice. I just need to drill RC. I'm pissed I got it as an experimental and the 5th section. Really screwed me. LR was good. Couple of focus errors. LG was perfect in 27 minutes. I'm just pissed I wasted a -12 curve. I think ill be good with limited study. I probably won't touch LG or LR until september.


Same. Me as well. I have really limited material left to be honest. So i'll probably just try and read for an hour or two a day until September.

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goawaybee
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby goawaybee » Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:28 pm

Wish I didn't have to study and I would compile a "shitter" study package for you all that just need to keep it fresh. like mini sections in a small booklet format you can work on while handle the nature business. They have all kinds of bathroom books right...A little more effective than sudoku or just straight reading.

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PlugInBaby
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby PlugInBaby » Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:16 pm

Thanks for the link on stress management fastforward. I am sure I would have hit my PT averages if my primitive mind didn't think I was being chased by a lion.

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fastforward
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Re: Retaking October Thread

Postby fastforward » Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:47 pm

This^^. And, you're welcome.




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