An example of ambiguity

twintipping_bumps
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:14 am

An example of ambiguity

Postby twintipping_bumps » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:10 pm

deleted
Last edited by twintipping_bumps on Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
merichard87
Posts: 751
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:31 pm

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby merichard87 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:12 pm

Define environment.

User avatar
3|ink
Posts: 7331
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:23 pm

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby 3|ink » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:13 pm

Define example.

twintipping_bumps
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:14 am

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby twintipping_bumps » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:19 pm

deleted
Last edited by twintipping_bumps on Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18422
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:19 pm

This has no bearing on our 16+ page thread of magnificence.

Nice try though.

User avatar
balzern
Posts: 347
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 2:27 pm

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby balzern » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:20 pm

Define the specific type of rainforest using longitude and latitude to the hundreth degree.

User avatar
merichard87
Posts: 751
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:31 pm

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby merichard87 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:20 pm

If this is supposed to compare to the question on the LSAT I think the word in question was used in the set-up and simply had two meanings. In this example you have described the setup as with location and temperature and then pulled out the word environment. I see what you're trying to do but its not the same type of problem.

User avatar
stintez
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby stintez » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:21 pm

twintipping_bumps wrote:Bob, Carl, Dave, Elise, and Francine work in the following locations: a Rainforest, a Desert, and a Meadow. At each location, they can work in the warmest area or the coldest area.

Bob can not be in the same environment as Carl.

Elise must be in the same environment as Dave.


I would think you were talking about RainForest Desert Meadow.

User avatar
FuManChusco
Posts: 1217
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:56 pm

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby FuManChusco » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:23 pm

bk1 wrote:This has no bearing on our 16+ page thread of magnificence.

Nice try though.


I'm glad I have someone else who feels 100% about a lack of ambiguity in the 16+ page thread. It's getting ridiculous, but I don't want it to stop. Perfect time killer when I have 6 hours of class and a smart phone. Also, yeah this example is ridiculous. The game on the actual test was not nearly as vague.

User avatar
merichard87
Posts: 751
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:31 pm

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby merichard87 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:24 pm

stintez wrote:
twintipping_bumps wrote:Bob, Carl, Dave, Elise, and Francine work in the following locations: a Rainforest, a Desert, and a Meadow. At each location, they can work in the warmest area or the coldest area.

Bob can not be in the same environment as Carl.

Elise must be in the same environment as Dave.


I would think you were talking about RainForest Desert Meadow.


I would assume environment mean location/temp combo so for example Bob cant be in the warmest area of the Rainforest if Carl is but he could be in the coldest area of the Rainforest.

User avatar
stintez
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby stintez » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:25 pm

merichard87 wrote:
stintez wrote:
twintipping_bumps wrote:Bob, Carl, Dave, Elise, and Francine work in the following locations: a Rainforest, a Desert, and a Meadow. At each location, they can work in the warmest area or the coldest area.

Bob can not be in the same environment as Carl.

Elise must be in the same environment as Dave.


I would think you were talking about RainForest Desert Meadow.


I would assume environment mean location/temp combo so for example Bob cant be in the warmest area of the Rainforest if Carl is but he could be in the coldest area of the Rainforest.


That would work as well.

twintipping_bumps
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:14 am

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby twintipping_bumps » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:26 pm

deleted
Last edited by twintipping_bumps on Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
merichard87
Posts: 751
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:31 pm

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby merichard87 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:30 pm

twintipping_bumps wrote:
merichard87 wrote:If this is supposed to compare to the question on the LSAT I think the word in question was used in the set-up and simply had two meanings. In this example you have described the setup as with location and temperature and then pulled out the word environment. I see what you're trying to do but its not the same type of problem.


Yeah, I don't want to publicly discuss that question because of the form I signed at the test. However, the whole problem with what I have written is that the word is not defined in the set-up. In what I have written, the fact I don't define the word in the set-up is what creates the ambiguity.



Exactly. Yes there is ambiguity here but it is not the same as the LSAT question. And for that matter, the way the LSAT question was explained to me I don't think there was any fault on LSAC. Yes the word itself had 2 meanings but some simple thinking could have lead one to the correct definition.

005618502
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:56 pm

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby 005618502 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:36 pm

The word on the LSAT game was defined in the Question!! what is wrong with everyone??? Seriously some people should not go to law school...... They cant even take a word in the right context after it was defined in the game.....

LoyolaLaw2012
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:11 pm

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby LoyolaLaw2012 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:43 pm

twintipping_bumps wrote:Bob, Carl, Dave, Elise, and Francine work in the following locations: a Rainforest, a Desert, and a Meadow. At each location, they can work in the warmest area or the coldest area.

Bob can not be in the same environment as Carl.

Elise must be in the same environment as Dave.



I am confused about "area."

User avatar
jpSartre
Posts: 326
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:05 am

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby jpSartre » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:45 pm

Define "Dave"

mst
Posts: 925
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:01 am

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby mst » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:31 pm

Am I only the only one that see's a remarkable resemblance between this and an LSAT Setup??? For common sense's sake I would suggest this be shut down...

User avatar
merichard87
Posts: 751
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:31 pm

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby merichard87 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:34 pm

mst wrote:Am I only the only one that see's a remarkable resemblance between this and an LSAT Setup??? For common sense's sake I would suggest this be shut down...


What? If its not an actual game can it be considered copyright infringement?

User avatar
holydonkey
Posts: 1184
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:40 pm

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby holydonkey » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:39 pm

Bob could be an abbreviation for any number of names; Bobby, Robert, Bobbi, Bobbie, etc. It's not really a fair set up for the logic game.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18422
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:40 pm

merichard87 wrote:What? If its not an actual game can it be considered copyright infringement?


It's specifically against LSAC rules to talk about the details of questions until they are released. Why this makes it okay to say something like "the mulch game was hard," I do not know.

TLS as a forum has an interest in making sure its members do not violate this rule so they are not subject to LSAC's wrath.

User avatar
merichard87
Posts: 751
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:31 pm

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby merichard87 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:43 pm

bk1 wrote:
merichard87 wrote:What? If its not an actual game can it be considered copyright infringement?


It's specifically against LSAC rules to talk about the details of questions until they are released. Why this makes it okay to say something like "the mulch game was hard," I do not know.

TLS as a forum has an interest in making sure its members do not violate this rule so they are not subject to LSAC's wrath.


Yea i definitely understand that but if I make up a logic game is it still a problem?

mst
Posts: 925
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:01 am

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby mst » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:45 pm

From the Sticky:

"this prohibition does not apply solely to the direct quotation of test questions and answers. Approximations of the language used in questions/answer choices"

If you make up a game that is strikingly similar in structure and context, then yes. I'm on your side here, just suggesting extreme caution. One more opportunity to bicker is not worth a ban or worse.
Last edited by mst on Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18422
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:45 pm

merichard87 wrote:Yea i definitely understand that but if I make up a logic game is it still a problem?


If your intent is to make up that logic game to disguise a discussion of something that isn't supposed to be discussed (i.e. an unreleased LSAT question), then yes it could still be a problem.

User avatar
merichard87
Posts: 751
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:31 pm

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby merichard87 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:47 pm

Ok just asking for clarification here.

twintipping_bumps
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:14 am

Re: An example of ambiguity

Postby twintipping_bumps » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:48 pm

I just made up my own question to discuss a general construction of language that could lead to ambiguity and confuse people. Since I was not citing a specific question or replicating any language from the exam, I thought it would be fine. I am hyper-aware of respecting the agreement I signed when I took at the test. I don't participate in any of the public discussions about the exam here, even though I would really enjoy doing so.

Since someone suggested what I wrote could be interpreted as a violation of the agreement, I have deleted what I have written. What I wrote appears by quotation from a few other people, so I hope the mods will just delete the entire post.




Return to “LSAT Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests