USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

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queenlizzie13
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby queenlizzie13 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:41 am

I posted here earlier but I'm still vastly unsure over what I should do.
I actually now think that the games section went okay. I know for sure I missed one question, but I was able to get to and finish all four games for the most part.

It's RC that's the tossup. Either I did really good or really bad. Here's the thing. If I don't cancel and it's low then two low scores (152 and presumably 160) don't look all that great for someone that has a 3.9 GPA (LSAC) and is magna cum laude & phi beta kappa - while working straight through college (20+ hours a week). My top choice is UC Berkeley. My twin sister went there for her undergraduate work. Like I said earlier though I suppose I would be okay with Notre Dame, Hastings, and the Boston schools. and Berkeley does have a wide range of LSAT scores (compared to most schools). With great softs and LORs that may help me. I have at least three good academic letters of rec and at least one professional letter of recommendation.

However, if I do cancel then October is the final time I can take it - I'm worried about the added pressure and knowing that whatever happens I cannot cancel given that I already canceled the June LSAT.

I rationally think the range of my scores on this test is between 161-167. (I averaged 165 for the most part on PT and wanted around that score. I did hit 170+ a couple of times during PT) It just depends on RC. I would be more comfortable keeping the score if I had done better the first time around (where I didn't really study and assumed I would improve just by taking a prep course without really doing many practice tests, etc) I stupidly thought I did okay on that test - it felt like all of the other ones, but in the end, I bombed.

Any advice would be great. Thanks!

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Grizz
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby Grizz » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:45 am

Stringer6 wrote:-first time taking LSAT
-recent PT scores 167, 166, 167, 167, 170 (-7 LG, Dinos), 172, 166 (day before test, Dec 09 PT)
-GPA: 3.53
-schools: fordham, cardozo, brooklyn
-bad: guessed on 7 LG questions
-good: think other sections went well, but it's hard to say
-i usually guess on 3 to 6 LG questions


Cancel?


I wouldn't cancel. This is your first LSAT, and you didn't horribly bomb anything. Retake in Oct. or Dec. if you need more points.

sven
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby sven » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:13 am

I posted a couple of days ago, but got no response. I thought about it some more, but am still unsure. Does anybody have advice?

PT Average: 172-180 (big range, i know. i usually i get a 174 on preptests. the 180s are all from tests i had already taken when studying a year ago)
Previous LSAT: 168 (last june.. messed up bigtime on LG)

I took the LSAT in Europe so I have no idea which of the 3 LRs i had was experimental. If I get lucky, I could get 3x because one of the sections was really easy. And if I don't I can get up to 6-7 wrong. But basically, I'm worried that I may get below my 168 because I messed up RC. I rushed through 2 of the passages and could have gotten like 6 questions wrong. There's NO way i made fewer than 3 errors there. Usually, though, RC is my strongest section, and i get 1-2 wrong. I'm also afraid that the curve won't be favorable since it was a really easy LG section and the rest of the test wasn't too bad either.

I have a 3.93 gpa and pretty good softs (nationally-competitive grant, good job, etc.)

I am aiming for NYU/Columbia, so I really wanted to get a 170 or above so that I could ED with some hope of actually getting in. Are the risks of waiting for a score greater than the possible benefits in my case, given that with my GPA and LSAT i still have a decent shot at NYU if I ED?

Thanks!!

imnion
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby imnion » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:52 am

Targeting T14
GPA: 3.94, good softs
PT Average: 167
No previous LSATs
June guess: 163-164
What went wrong? RC is my worst section, and it was on the actual LSAT as well. I got to the 4th passage with 5 and change left on the clock. My answers were a bunch of skims and a couple of blind guesses. On LG, I missed the big inference in the 4th game and had a bunch of educated guesses on it and one guess elsewhere. If I can get into T14, I don't want to retake. I hate this test oh so much.

flie10001
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby flie10001 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:23 pm

reposting. helllp
im in a similar boat as some of you above...

ive been traditionally scoring in the mid 160s on all of my practice exams, given that i always score only about -2 on LG. this exam was probably the worst ive ever done on an LG section (at least since my first diagnostic)...im anticipating below a 160 which is brutal considering the amount of work i put in to studying.
its my first time taking the LSAT and with an ug gpa of a 3.88 i was hoping to have hit the mid 160s and to have applied t30...a 160 is looking like a blessing at the moment and not feeling very likely.

should i cancel or keep?

i will be retaking in oct.

raiser
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby raiser » Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:04 am

PT avg 172
Prev LSAT: cancel (sep 09), 167
What went wrong: LG #4(!), otherwise an average test, I usually get 2-4 wrong spread around an LG section, made the wrong inference on #4, most likely got all 6 wrong.
Targets: Fordham/Cardozo

Should I cancel? I'm on a waiting list now, was hoping a good score would bump me in. My GPA is mediocre.

09042014
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:19 am

raiser wrote:PT avg 172
Prev LSAT: cancel (sep 09), 167
What went wrong: LG #4(!), otherwise an average test, I usually get 2-4 wrong spread around an LG section, made the wrong inference on #4, most likely got all 6 wrong.
Targets: Fordham/Cardozo

Should I cancel? I'm on a waiting list now, was hoping a good score would bump me in. My GPA is mediocre.


2-4 off your average isn't enough to cancel, esp, when you already have a 167 on your record. You might get a 170.

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Grizz
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby Grizz » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:55 am

imnion wrote:Targeting T14
GPA: 3.94, good softs
PT Average: 167
No previous LSATs
June guess: 163-164
What went wrong? RC is my worst section, and it was on the actual LSAT as well. I got to the 4th passage with 5 and change left on the clock. My answers were a bunch of skims and a couple of blind guesses. On LG, I missed the big inference in the 4th game and had a bunch of educated guesses on it and one guess elsewhere. If I can get into T14, I don't want to retake. I hate this test oh so much.


What is your deal? You don't want to retake, but are considering canceling? LOGIC FAIL

This is your first LSAT, so I'm gonna go with don't cancel.

raiser
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby raiser » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:15 pm

I guess you are right. I figure I got +1-2 more wrong on LG, +3-5 LR, +2-4 RC
That is 12 - 17 wrong, putting me between 170 and 165 depending on the curve. Can't hurt too much right? I can't take again until next Sept anyway.
I wonder if there are any studies on the spread btw PT scores and actual.
Desert Fox wrote:
raiser wrote:PT avg 172
Prev LSAT: cancel (sep 09), 167
What went wrong: LG #4(!), otherwise an average test, I usually get 2-4 wrong spread around an LG section, made the wrong inference on #4, most likely got all 6 wrong.
Targets: Fordham/Cardozo

Should I cancel? I'm on a waiting list now, was hoping a good score would bump me in. My GPA is mediocre.


2-4 off your average isn't enough to cancel, esp, when you already have a 167 on your record. You might get a 170.

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cigarman
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby cigarman » Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:33 pm

Targeting T 200+
GPA: 2.51 (I was a god in my fraternity), softs... no softs. Eight kids.
PT Average: 159
No previous LSATs
June guess: 153-161

Billy Bob Tells me the Chuck wagon scholarship is only mine if I get 158. Do you think if I bubble one of the ovals they will let me half cancel the sections of my choice? I am sooo confused. :P
Going to lie down now and see if that helps.

mst
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby mst » Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:46 pm

Cigarman, if you don't do as well as you'd like, the schools you will be applying to with your GPA/LSAT range won't care if you take it again one more time. They'll take your highest LSAT in all likelihood. So there's no need to cancel. Good luck with the 8 kids.

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cigarman
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby cigarman » Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:54 pm

mst wrote:Cigarman, if you don't do as well as you'd like, the schools you will be applying to with your GPA/LSAT range won't care if you take it again one more time. They'll take your highest LSAT in all likelihood. So there's no need to cancel. Good luck with the 8 kids.


I know. I was teasing. I think people are a wee bit overracting and stressed. Trying to make them see they are better off than they think they are.

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Knock
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby Knock » Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:56 pm

cigarman wrote:Targeting T 200+
GPA: 2.51 (I was a god in my fraternity), softs... no softs. Eight kids.
PT Average: 159
No previous LSATs
June guess: 153-161

Billy Bob Tells me the Chuck wagon scholarship is only mine if I get 158. Do you think if I bubble one of the ovals they will let me half cancel the sections of my choice? I am sooo confused. :P
Going to lie down now and see if that helps.


I think it's safe to assume that you're 8 kids are from 8 different baby momma's.

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cigarman
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby cigarman » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:06 pm

Knockglock wrote:
cigarman wrote:Targeting T 200+
GPA: 2.51 (I was a god in my fraternity), softs... no softs. Eight kids.
PT Average: 159
No previous LSATs
June guess: 153-161

Billy Bob Tells me the Chuck wagon scholarship is only mine if I get 158. Do you think if I bubble one of the ovals they will let me half cancel the sections of my choice? I am sooo confused. :P
Going to lie down now and see if that helps.


I think it's safe to assume that you're 8 kids are from 8 different baby momma's.


I hope you did better guessing the the LSAT... sorry no cigar. One mom.

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Knock
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby Knock » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:07 pm

cigarman wrote:
Knockglock wrote:
cigarman wrote:Targeting T 200+
GPA: 2.51 (I was a god in my fraternity), softs... no softs. Eight kids.
PT Average: 159
No previous LSATs
June guess: 153-161

Billy Bob Tells me the Chuck wagon scholarship is only mine if I get 158. Do you think if I bubble one of the ovals they will let me half cancel the sections of my choice? I am sooo confused. :P
Going to lie down now and see if that helps.


I think it's safe to assume that you're 8 kids are from 8 different baby momma's.


I hope you did better guessing the the LSAT... sorry no cigar. One mom.


I guess you were not truly a god in your fraternity then

AKA
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby AKA » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:23 pm

PT Average: 174+
Previous LSATs (including cancels): 153 (many many years ago, unprepared and uninterested), 169 (perfect LG section, -3 RC section, bad LR sections)
What you think you'll get on this LSAT: 165-171
Why you think you did bad on this LSAT (misbubble, panic, etc etc:
Misread the 4th game -- 5 guesses
Rushed through the last RC passage -- 3 educated guesses
I did very well in the LR sections this time.

I am already in at a T14 this year, but I do plan to transfer to YHSCCN next year. I didn't perform well this time, but the curve may be generous enough for me to get a 170. I am also curious about my score (though that made me not to cancel my 153). If I do perform very well at my T14, would having a 165 hurt my chance of transfering to a T6?

mst
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby mst » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:39 pm

Your LSAT will matter MUCH less next year in terms of transferring. Focus on getting awesome grades.

James2010
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby James2010 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:34 pm

Post your:

165 average practice test...last one 168
1 absence on my record

I guess I got 160 but maybe as high as 163 or even higher.

Why you think you did bad on this LSAT (mis-diagrammed a rule on the LG section and then got a big panicked, but to be honest LG are always my weakest section by a lot anyway)

And also which level of schools you are targeting: T1 and T2

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MarkRenton
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby MarkRenton » Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:19 pm

I'm leaning towards canceling, but I could really use the wisdom of BP.

In short, I'm targeting HYS. I graduated from a public ivy and wrote a senior thesis. I hoped that these factors would put me over the top with a great LSAT score. I feel comfortable that I scored between a 173 and a 177. However, I'm fairly concerned that my writing sample was woefully below T14 standards. I don't know what occurred. I got nervous... I was didn't eat breakfast... Whatever it was, I choked. I'm fairly sure I used a double negative and ended a sentence with a preposition. I also meant to say "its" as in possessive but instead wrote "it's". Who else knows what other sort of sloppy mistakes that I made. My penmanship was also deplorable which will definitely communicate sloppiness and an acceptance of below standards work.

Should I cancel? Should I write an addendum about my writing sample? Or, after the test is disclosed and I can view my writing sample in all its shame - should I edit the document through Microsoft Word and resubmit the writing sample as what it should have read like?

What should I do BP, I feel like I let HYS, much less the T14, slip through my fingers.

09042014
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:57 pm

MarkRenton wrote:I'm leaning towards canceling, but I could really use the wisdom of BP.

In short, I'm targeting HYS. I graduated from a public ivy and wrote a senior thesis. I hoped that these factors would put me over the top with a great LSAT score. I feel comfortable that I scored between a 173 and a 177. However, I'm fairly concerned that my writing sample was woefully below T14 standards. I don't know what occurred. I got nervous... I was didn't eat breakfast... Whatever it was, I choked. I'm fairly sure I used a double negative and ended a sentence with a preposition. I also meant to say "its" as in possessive but instead wrote "it's". Who else knows what other sort of sloppy mistakes that I made. My penmanship was also deplorable which will definitely communicate sloppiness and an acceptance of below standards work.

Should I cancel? Should I write an addendum about my writing sample? Or, after the test is disclosed and I can view my writing sample in all its shame - should I edit the document through Microsoft Word and resubmit the writing sample as what it should have read like?

What should I do BP, I feel like I let HYS, much less the T14, slip through my fingers.


Keep it but do the bolded.

IBThatGuy
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby IBThatGuy » Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:04 pm

MarkRenton wrote: I'm fairly sure I used a double negative and ended a sentence with a preposition. I also meant to say "its" as in possessive but instead wrote "it's". Who else knows what other sort of sloppy mistakes that I made. My penmanship was also deplorable which will definitely communicate sloppiness and an acceptance of below standards work.

Should I cancel? Should I write an addendum about my writing sample? Or, after the test is disclosed and I can view my writing sample in all its shame - should I edit the document through Microsoft Word and resubmit the writing sample as whatit should have read like?


Kidding.

Double negative? Guess I'd have to see it, but people are pretty good at avoiding those, so, if you did, it's probably understandable.

Most people who really know what they're talking about, I think, agree that ending a phrase with a preposition is acceptable, and for good reason: Insisting on avoiding it yields ugly-ass sentences. Example: "Most people who really know about that of which they speak, I think, insist that one must not end a phrase with a preposition." Ugly. I read something like that in an application, and that person is out. Why? Because it follows a rule that neither does nor should exist, and they across as a douche for doing it. Ending with a preposition is OK, as long as it doesn't make the sentence's meaning unclear (or make the sentence ugly).

DF, I see that you recommended a typed rewrite. Do you really think they care about an omitted apostrophe in this context? I can see paying attention to an inappropriate apostrophe (i.e., replacing "its" with "it's"), but I think I'd have to read this one as a simple, entirely excusable typo, attributable to the fact that the writer has exactly 35 minutes.


Also, still looking for feedback on my situation:
PT avg: 165.
Prev. LSAT: No-show last December
Prediction: 160
Target schools: Mostly ranked 20-40 (including Emory, UNC, and a few VA/MD programs)
Reason: I don't think I normally blind-guess on more than around 8 per whole test. This time, I guess on at least 16 and was very uncertain about a lot of my attempts.

09042014
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:09 pm

IBThatGuy wrote:
MarkRenton wrote: I'm fairly sure I used a double negative and ended a sentence with a preposition. I also meant to say "its" as in possessive but instead wrote "it's". Who else knows what other sort of sloppy mistakes that I made. My penmanship was also deplorable which will definitely communicate sloppiness and an acceptance of below standards work.

Should I cancel? Should I write an addendum about my writing sample? Or, after the test is disclosed and I can view my writing sample in all its shame - should I edit the document through Microsoft Word and resubmit the writing sample as whatit should have read like?


Kidding.

Double negative? Guess I'd have to see it, but people are pretty good at avoiding those, so, if you did, it's probably understandable.

Most people who really know what they're talking about, I think, agree that ending a phrase with a preposition is acceptable, and for good reason: Insisting on avoiding it yields ugly-ass sentences. Example: "Most people who really know about that of which they speak, I think, insist that one must not end a phrase with a preposition." Ugly. I read something like that in an application, and that person is out. Why? Because it follows a rule that neither does nor should exist, and they across as a douche for doing it. Ending with a preposition is OK, as long as it doesn't make the sentence's meaning unclear (or make the sentence ugly).

DF, I see that you recommended a typed rewrite. Do you really think they care about an omitted apostrophe in this context? I can see paying attention to an inappropriate apostrophe (i.e., replacing "its" with "it's"), but I think I'd have to read this one as a simple, entirely excusable typo, attributable to the fact that the writer has exactly 35 minutes.


Also, still looking for feedback on my situation:
PT avg: 165.
Prev. LSAT: No-show last December
Prediction: 160
Target schools: Mostly ranked 20-40 (including Emory, UNC, and a few VA/MD programs)
Reason: I don't think I normally blind-guess on more than around 8 per whole test. This time, I guess on at least 16 and was very uncertain about a lot of my attempts.


LOL; Renton was joking around. Writing sample doesn't mater at all.

astrosag
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby astrosag » Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:26 pm

PT Average: 171 - very upward trend though closing in on 175+
Previous LSATs (including cancels): None (1st test was on June 7th)
What you think you'll get on this LSAT: oh man...low 160s? Even if I'm low balling, no chance its close to 170
Why you think you did bad on this LSAT: I thought i was well prepared and I regret this test a lot. I lost some focus on the first LG and from there it snowballed. I did poorly on the first LG (LG is my strength btw) but I had two LG sections so not sure which one was experimental. LR I still managed to eek out confident answers so I'm not too concerned. RC, a lot of guessing because I couldn't focus on the reading. Honestly, this test was not difficult. Its all on me.

And also which level of schools you are targeting: Top 10 (really shooting for Top 5).

I'm an engineering background (Aerospace - Masters). I absolutely need a high LSAT score to offset my low 3.3 UGPA (Masters was 3.8 but doesn't matter much does it?) to even have a remote shot. My window for applying is this year which puts a lot of pressure on the October test. From prior reading, a low score will hurt my chances at the Top 5 even if I do hit my target score on my second attempt (despite the huge difference in scores).

I'm confident in my ability to answer the questions. I guess the testing atmosphere just got to me and I lost focus. Funny thing is, I wasn't even thinking about the repercussions of a low score when I started getting pressured. I think I kept thinking about the prior section...I couldn't mentally drop the other sections and focus on the one at hand bc missing even a few on a section puts me out of the running as far as my target is concerned. I just know that this was nowhere near my best effort. Now knowing what to expect, I'm positive I can do well. This test wasn't hard! I think I just over did it. Don't study the night before the test!

I called LSAC and I have till tomorrow to fax in my form so not much time left! :D

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D. H2Oman
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby D. H2Oman » Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:38 pm

astrosag wrote:PT Average: 171 - very upward trend though closing in on 175+
Previous LSATs (including cancels): None (1st test was on June 7th)
What you think you'll get on this LSAT: oh man...low 160s? Even if I'm low balling, no chance its close to 170
Why you think you did bad on this LSAT: I thought i was well prepared and I regret this test a lot. I lost some focus on the first LG and from there it snowballed. I did poorly on the first LG (LG is my strength btw) but I had two LG sections so not sure which one was experimental. LR I still managed to eek out confident answers so I'm not too concerned. RC, a lot of guessing because I couldn't focus on the reading. Honestly, this test was not difficult. Its all on me.

And also which level of schools you are targeting: Top 10 (really shooting for Top 5).

I'm an engineering background (Aerospace - Masters). I absolutely need a high LSAT score to offset my low 3.3 UGPA (Masters was 3.8 but doesn't matter much does it?) to even have a remote shot. My window for applying is this year which puts a lot of pressure on the October test. From prior reading, a low score will hurt my chances at the Top 5 even if I do hit my target score on my second attempt (despite the huge difference in scores).

I'm confident in my ability to answer the questions. I guess the testing atmosphere just got to me and I lost focus. Funny thing is, I wasn't even thinking about the repercussions of a low score when I started getting pressured. I think I kept thinking about the prior section...I couldn't mentally drop the other sections and focus on the one at hand bc missing even a few on a section puts me out of the running as far as my target is concerned. I just know that this was nowhere near my best effort. Now knowing what to expect, I'm positive I can do well. This test wasn't hard! I think I just over did it. Don't study the night before the test!

I called LSAC and I have till tomorrow to fax in my form so not much time left! :D



Keep and see how it went, retake if need be. You have practically no shot at the T5 regardless of your score.

afLSAT
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby afLSAT » Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:54 am

PT Average: 168. Highest PT was a 177, but that was an outlier. I never finish LG -- the high PT's were the result of -0 on LR/RC.

Previous LSATs (including cancels): None (1st test was on June 7th)

What you think you'll get on this LSAT: I suppose high 160's?

Why you think you did bad on this LSAT: I only gave myself 3 weeks to study intensely -- I just finished classes for grad school. From the first PT I took, I was consistently scoring no more than -3 on LR/RC, so I figured I should just focus on LG. But by the end of the three weeks I hadn't improved as quickly as I'd hoped, and two days before the test, I realized that I really ought to be studying LR to ensure that I'm always -0 . . . so I started cramming the LRB. By the time the test came around, I was pretty burnt out, and I'm confident that if I gave myself more time in which to study, I could consistently hit excellent scores on the PTs and go into the test confident of getting a better score.

And also which level of schools you are targeting: NYU is the only school that I really want to go to. I'm interested in a PI field for which NYU seems like it would be an excellent choice. My undergrad had narrative evaluations, not grades, so I don't have a real GPA -- but I did take 7 classes at nearby schools, and the grades appear on my transcript. The average of those grades would be a 3.62 -- so let's consider my GPA in that range. Also, excellent softs and life experience after undergrad. But I think I need to hit at least 172 to feel confident about getting into NYU.

My question is, would NYU look more kindly upon a cancellation and a 171+, or a 167 and a 171+ retake? I've read their policy -- but I wonder if there's any basis on which to decide whether a cancellation is preferable to having them average my scores. (If necessary, I'd write an addendum explaining that a family crisis made my semester at grad school too hectic to allow for intensive LSAT study, but that the October retake gave me ample time for improvement.)

Thanks yall.




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