USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

June09Sucked
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby June09Sucked » Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:49 pm

mmorel02 wrote:PT avg: Mid 160's (164-167)
Prev. LSAT: None
Prediction: Hard to say, could be anywhere from mid 150's to my prep test average
Target schools: Mostly top 30
Reason: I totally messed up the games section, which is unusual because on my prep tests Im usually missing no more than 3. On this section I just froze on the first game, and that carried over to the others. I think I got the second and third ones, but had to guess on a lot of the first and fourth games. I think I did fine on all the other sections, but reading comp is always a wild card for me, so not sure. I'm leaning towards keeping it, but just wanted to see if others thought that was the right decision.

Thanks for the help.


This sounds like a keeper imo, seems like your score could potentially be in your PT range, and most top 30 schools care more about high score than an average anyway so you wouldn't be shooting yourself in the foot too much with a 157 followed by a substantially improved score (maybe you'd just include an addendum talking about having committing yourself to improving and rectifying mistakes from your earlier test?). Hopefully you got a 165 and that point will be moot. :D

Soda Mixer
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby Soda Mixer » Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:58 pm

PT Average: 172ish
Previous LSATs (including cancels): none
What you think you'll get on this LSAT: 167-171
Why you think you did bad on this LSAT: Mulch and Interns
Target Schools: Columbia, Chicago, Michigan, Penn, and Berkeley
GPA: 3.87

LG is always my weakest section by far, but Monday's seemed especially brutal. I could easily have missed eight or nine, but I really doubt I missed more than three total on LR and RC, so there's a chance my overall score will still be decent. I will likely retake in October, but I think I would like to have one score in my pocket just in case I'm still a games retard in four months.

Thanks!

EvoLuno
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby EvoLuno » Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:19 pm

Hey guys,
My situation's a little weird. I walked out of the test center thinking it was very unlikely I would cancel. Now I'm seriously entertaining the idea.

I took the test in June '09 and scored a 166, even though I was PTing in the 167-176 range (avg of 171). Basically just missed all the problems I had narrowed down to 2 (or 3) and had a lot of problems with the dinos logic game (and a second game because of the time the dino game took). That PT avg of 171 was acquired solely through self study: Powerscore and Preptests.

I am not sure if I want to apply to Law School this fall; probably less than 50/50, but it would be nice to be able to bank a solid LSAT score for the next few years. So on the last possible day, like 2 and a half weeks before this June's test, I semi-spontaneously signed up, despite only slight-to-moderate prep in the weeks before. I had a 169 preptest day of signing up and figured I'd be able to boost that a few points. But despite reasonably rigorous prep over the last couple of weeks, my PT range was not quite up to my 171 average this time (it was in fact right around 169).

In any event, I think I scored in the 165-171 range on this test. Probably 168 if I had to guess. Unfortunately, I had to guess on 5 questions, and speed through one of the RC passages in 5 minutes (Aussie Law), where I went with whatever jumped out on me. Other than that I felt really good about things, but I think those difficulties will preclude me from scoring above 170. The time stress was the biggest problem in this test for me this time -- in June '09 it was a moderate problem.

I told myself going in I wasn't going to stress out over the results, but in reading the boards over the last couple of days, I've concluded that I probably could do at least a few (and quite possibly several) points better on average by taking a highly recommended Prep-course, perhaps PowerScore's. I had been telling myself "self-study is just as good," but I'm thinking it might not be optimal in my case (and you don't know until you try it). In addition, I just saw this kick-ass 35 minute countdown watch posted on the boards that really, really would have helped me on test day, since I was having trouble budgeting time (and knowing exactly how much time was left in the critical last few minutes, the proctor only gave us a 5 minute warning, and the clock was poorly synchronized with what she wrote on the board).

(Here's the watch:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=108413 )

Anyway, I've got a 3.75 from an Ivy (not H or Y if that matters), am a few years out of school with an interesting but somewhat haphazard resume, and I've decided I'm only going to Law School if I get into a t14 (or get good money from a t30 maybe). My parents both went to UVA (one grad, one law) so I think I'd have a good shot there. My 166 in the bank probably is enough to keep me out of HYS and possibly even CCN, since my understanding is that most of those guys average scores. But I've got this confidence that I could get 172+ given optimal test prep and improved time management on the day of the test. So what i'm trying to figure out is, should I take my likely-to-be slightly improved test score (although it may be the same or slightly worse), or cancel and bank on taking it a 3rd time fully prepared using the things I've learned? Or would a 166/168/17x be ok? I'm trying to figure out if a same-ish score makes taking the test a 3rd time look kind of desperate, especially if God Forbid I didn't improve much. I know the cancel is somewhat easy to explain away, but part of me hates throwing away what might be a 169-170 since maybe that is closer to my natural ceiling than I think.

09042014
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:21 pm

EvoLuno wrote:Hey guys,
My situation's a little weird. I walked out of the test center thinking it was very unlikely I would cancel. Now I'm seriously entertaining the idea.

I took the test in June '09 and scored a 166, even though I was PTing in the 167-176 range (avg of 171). Basically just missed all the problems I had narrowed down to 2 (or 3) and had a lot of problems with the dinos logic game (and a second game because of the time the dino game took). That PT avg of 171 was acquired solely through self study: Powerscore and Preptests.

I am not sure if I want to apply to Law School this fall; probably less than 50/50, but it would be nice to be able to bank a solid LSAT score for the next few years. So on the last possible day, like 2 and a half weeks before this June's test, I semi-spontaneously signed up, despite only slight-to-moderate prep in the weeks before. I had a 169 preptest day of signing up and figured I'd be able to boost that a few points. But despite reasonably rigorous prep over the last couple of weeks, my PT range was not quite up to my 171 average this time (it was in fact right around 169).

In any event, I think I scored in the 165-171 range on this test. Probably 168 if I had to guess. Unfortunately, I had to guess on 5 questions, and speed through one of the RC passages in 5 minutes (Aussie Law), where I went with whatever jumped out on me. Other than that I felt really good about things, but I think those difficulties will preclude me from scoring above 170. The time stress was the biggest problem in this test for me this time -- in June '09 it was a moderate problem.

I told myself going in I wasn't going to stress out over the results, but in reading the boards over the last couple of days, I've concluded that I probably could do at least a few (and quite possibly several) points better on average by taking a highly recommended Prep-course, perhaps PowerScore's. I had been telling myself "self-study is just as good," but I'm thinking it might not be optimal in my case (and you don't know until you try it). In addition, I just saw this kick-ass 35 minute countdown watch posted on the boards that really, really would have helped me on test day, since I was having trouble budgeting time (and knowing exactly how much time was left in the critical last few minutes, the proctor only gave us a 5 minute warning, and the clock was poorly synchronized with what she wrote on the board).

(Here's the watch:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=108413 )

Anyway, I've got a 3.75 from an Ivy (not H or Y if that matters), am a few years out of school with an interesting but somewhat haphazard resume, and I've decided I'm only going to Law School if I get into a t14 (or get good money from a t30 maybe). My parents both went to UVA (one grad, one law) so I think I'd have a good shot there. My 166 in the bank probably is enough to keep me out of HYS and possibly even CCN, since my understanding is that most of those guys average scores. But I've got this confidence that I could get 172+ given optimal test prep and improved time management on the day of the test. So what i'm trying to figure out is, should I take my likely-to-be slightly improved test score (although it may be the same or slightly worse), or cancel and bank on taking it a 3rd time fully prepared using the things I've learned? Or would a 166/168/17x be ok? I'm trying to figure out if a same-ish score makes taking the test a 3rd time look kind of desperate, especially if God Forbid I didn't improve much. I know the cancel is somewhat easy to explain away, but part of me hates throwing away what might be a 169-170 since maybe that is closer to my natural ceiling than I think.


I'd let it ride. 166/168/173 is about the same as 166/X/173.

But when you take the test again, take it seriously.

09042014
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:22 pm

Soda Mixer wrote:PT Average: 172ish
Previous LSATs (including cancels): none
What you think you'll get on this LSAT: 167-171
Why you think you did bad on this LSAT: Mulch and Interns
Target Schools: Columbia, Chicago, Michigan, Penn, and Berkeley
GPA: 3.87

LG is always my weakest section by far, but Monday's seemed especially brutal. I could easily have missed eight or nine, but I really doubt I missed more than three total on LR and RC, so there's a chance my overall score will still be decent. I will likely retake in October, but I think I would like to have one score in my pocket just in case I'm still a games retard in four months.

Thanks!


YOu are too close to your PT average to cancel. Way too many people have test day jitters that never go away. If you don't get 171, retake.

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Stringer6
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby Stringer6 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:26 pm

recent PTs: 167, 166, 167, 167, 170 (with 7 wrong on LG), 172, 166 (day before test, Dec. 09 PT)
what i think I got: 162-168
what i did well: i think i was fine on everything but LG
what i did wrong: (randomly) guess on the last question of the mulch game and all of the intern game (7 questions)

i don't think i should cancel. anyone disagree?

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Stringer6
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby Stringer6 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:27 pm

oh, and my target schools are fordham, cardozo, brooklyn (assuming i don't get 170 or higher)

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Grizz
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby Grizz » Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:28 pm

Stringer6 wrote:recent PTs: 167, 166, 167, 167, 170 (with 7 wrong on LG), 172, 166 (day before test, Dec. 09 PT)
what i think I got: 162-168
what i did well: i think i was fine on everything but LG
what i did wrong: (randomly) guess on the last question of the mulch game and all of the intern game (7 questions)

i don't think i should cancel. anyone disagree?


Impossible to say without knowing your targets/reaches/etc. and how many times you have taken the test (and what those scores were, if more than once).

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Stringer6
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby Stringer6 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:29 pm

sorry, i've never taken the test before monday. target schools listed above.

EvoLuno
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby EvoLuno » Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:50 pm

Thanks Desert.

Desert (or anyone else) -- do you have an idea of how poorly (if at all poorly) the t14 looks upon having taken the test three times? If they look poorly on it, does "x, cancel, x" look not as bad as "x, x, x?" I guess an addendum can explain away a cancel but I hate the idea of making something up.

20181989
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby 20181989 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:32 pm

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Last edited by 20181989 on Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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TexasWave
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby TexasWave » Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:10 pm

Holly Golightly wrote:
TexasWave wrote:
Holly Golightly wrote:Did you complete any of the 4th LG?



No- I got to the 4th with 5-6 minutes left, and in between the weird rules, tough questions, and me maybe mis-diagramming one rule and then fixing how I represented it slightly, I basically guessed D on all of the last 6; I think I guessed C on one of them for some reason so I guess I made a quasi-educated guess on one of them.

How do you normally score on LG in your PTs?


Usually between -1, -2, or -3.

Let's say usually -3 to -5 on everything but the logic games, and then -1 to -4 on the logic games. Like I said, I usually PT pretty consistently around 175 on PTs where I finish the games and they aren't the make-or-break.

If I finish the games I usually miss between 1 and 3, and if I am rushed on a last game I usually miss between 2 and 4.


I'm torn because if I get even a 170, it's already an improvement and I can just try a third time in October, and then cancel October if I feel bad. On the other hand, for my 169 in February I only had to guess blindly on the last 3 or 4 questions instead of the last 6, and getting below a 169 would suck.

On the other other hand, it might be worth the risk to keep this and take a it a third time just because schools outside the T5 (especially Texas) might not care if I have one 167 or something when I have a 169 plus potentially a 170s score in October...


ARG.

max powers
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby max powers » Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:20 pm

Philipsssssss wrote:PT Average Lately scored: PT 59 167, PT 55 164, PT 56 167....some 160 and 161's[/i]...I'm not sure the average, but i only happen to get 159 once, did a test late evening, was exhausted, didn't care, missed like crazy...otherwise, 160+.

Previous LSATs (2007 cancel-was a big mistake to take it, 2010 JUNE pending cancellation...)

What you think you'll get on this LSAT - Borderline 150-151 (maybe even less).

Why you think you did bad on this LSAT- LG section bombed it (guessed on last 2 games), RC (guessed on the last passage), Section 5 LR3 bad... (was exhausted due to the performance on the LG, RC) + SICK.

Schools you are targeting: T20 (1-20)

So...Planning to take in OCT (will have 2 cancellations on file)

Have a good GPA (3.89 Univ, but LSDAS 3.6), very good softs, great LR's, good work experience, double major, doing Master's in Accounting...



...basically did the exact same thing on Monday's test. :? I don't even remember the last LR; I just kept thinking about whether I should cancel or not. grrrrrrrr. Best of luck to us both!

IBThatGuy
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby IBThatGuy » Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:27 pm

max powers wrote:...basically did the exact same thing on Monday's test. :? I don't even remember the last LR; I just kept thinking about whether I should cancel or not. grrrrrrrr. Best of luck to us both!


Yep. Couldn't focus on the last section at all (in my case, RC). Got halfway through a passage before realizing that, aside from one famous name I picked up on, I had no idea what the passage had said. It had almost nothing to do with that famous person - only friends of his in the theater community. Normally have to blind guess on 0-3 RC questions. This time, I think I blind guessed on 5-8.

Edit: Anyone care to comment on mine?

flie10001
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby flie10001 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:57 pm

im in a similar boat as some of you above...

ive been traditionally scoring in the mid 160s on all of my practice exams, given that i always score only about -2 on LG. this exam was probably the worst ive ever done on an LG section (at least since my first diagnostic)...im anticipating below a 160 which is brutal considering the amount of work i put in to studying.
its my first time taking the LSAT and with an ug gpa of a 3.88 i was hoping to have hit the mid 160s and to have applied t30...a 160 is looking like a blessing at the moment and not feeling very likely.

should i cancel or keep?

i will be retaking in oct.

chrisg_127
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby chrisg_127 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:27 pm

Practice Test Average: 167-174 (Dependent on RC)

What I think I Got: Mid 160s

During the RC, I spend WAY too much time on the first 2 passages, and I still don't think I aced them. I quickly went through the third, probably missing 2 or 3. The last one, I quickly skimmed, completed the first 4 questions, and bubbled the last 3. I would imagine I missed ~10 on the RC total. I think I aced the LG and the first LR, but I was exhausted on the last LR and probably missed more than normal (I normally miss 1 or 2).

Target Schools: T14 (with a specific interest in Mich and Chicago) + UCLA, Notre Dame, and Indiana (hopefully as safeties)

GPA: 3.75 BSME

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Emma.
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby Emma. » Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:53 am

20181989 wrote:Recent PTs: Took 28 PTs. PT Avg: 173.
What I think I got: 168 - 172
What I did well: Last two sections.
What I did wrong: Just felt scattered on LG, first section of arguments. No blind guesses, but didn't feel totally confident as I usually do in PTs.

Top Target Schools: Chicago, Cal
Undergrad GPA: 3.6 from Yale, Econ. (Grade Trend: Senior Year was a 3.96)

Leaning against cancel, but only faintly. Someone push me one way or another?


I wouldn't cancel, but that GPA is going to most likely be a problem for Cal.

If you end up scoring under 171 I'd plan on retaking in October for a shot at Chi.

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Emma.
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby Emma. » Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:56 am

EvoLuno wrote:Thanks Desert.

Desert (or anyone else) -- do you have an idea of how poorly (if at all poorly) the t14 looks upon having taken the test three times? If they look poorly on it, does "x, cancel, x" look not as bad as "x, x, x?" I guess an addendum can explain away a cancel but I hate the idea of making something up.


I read somewhere (from a Dean of Admissions at one of the T14 but can't remember which one) that they are more likely to look at the average of 3 scores as an indication of your ability, whereas with 2 they'd be more likely to weigh the higher score more heavily. That might just be that one school though.

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Shot007
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby Shot007 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:16 am

Marino13 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
DCApplicant2011 wrote:Okay, I will repost from another topic.

Only 1 or 2 blind guesses? Unless those T14's are NYU, then don't cancel. Most lower t14, don't average.


You say most under the Top 14 Schools do NOT average scores and just take the highest? Is there some site that lists this, or any other threads? Or.. is it just most wise to call the schools we're interested in and check it out.

IDK if this data is old not but anyway...
http://www.top-law-schools.com/retaking-the-lsat.html
scroll down, it lists which schools average and which dont

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TexasWave
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby TexasWave » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:21 am

So, any of you wise people have any advice for my situation as posted on this page and the prior two? I feel like it's a real pickle.

I feel like it'll look better taking it a third time if I cancel the second time and say I was sick or off my game and such, especially if I get a good 170s in October.

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Ragged
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby Ragged » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:26 am

TexasWave wrote:So, any of you wise people have any advice for my situation as posted on this page and the prior two? I feel like it's a real pickle.

I feel like it'll look better taking it a third time if I cancel the second time and say I was sick or off my game and such, especially if I get a good 170s in October.


I'd say don't cancel. Sounds like you might get 170+ and if not it won't be much lower that 169. Most T14 takes highest and even HYS is possible with a super high 3rd score. I'm in the situation as you almost to the T as far as the test went (guessed on last 6 and feel good about everything else) and already have a 170. I'm not canceling.

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Shot007
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby Shot007 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:22 am

SouthernMagnolia wrote:Forgot to mention that my GPA is a 3.92. Majoring in Public Relations with minors in Business Administration and German.


Your GPA is 3.92! I think you should retake and aim higher....so maybe not cancel, just keep this score...retake...score like 165 and then you can improve your chances dramatically...maybe WUSTL...

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whuts4lunch
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby whuts4lunch » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:34 am

Shot007 wrote:
SouthernMagnolia wrote:Forgot to mention that my GPA is a 3.92. Majoring in Public Relations with minors in Business Administration and German.


Your GPA is 3.92! I think you should retake and aim higher....so maybe not cancel, just keep this score...retake...score like 165 and then you can improve your chances dramatically...maybe WUSTL...


would have a shot at Wustl with low 160s I imagine

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TexasWave
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby TexasWave » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:50 am

Ragged wrote:
TexasWave wrote:So, any of you wise people have any advice for my situation as posted on this page and the prior two? I feel like it's a real pickle.

I feel like it'll look better taking it a third time if I cancel the second time and say I was sick or off my game and such, especially if I get a good 170s in October.


I'd say don't cancel. Sounds like you might get 170+ and if not it won't be much lower that 169. Most T14 takes highest and even HYS is possible with a super high 3rd score. I'm in the situation as you almost to the T as far as the test went (guessed on last 6 and feel good about everything else) and already have a 170. I'm not canceling.


Yeah...it's so hard to say....I keep thinking "But then there was that one parallel reasoning question near the very end of a LR section that I had to guess between the 5 answers in 30 seconds on...and then there was that beaver question, and the one or two Aussie law questions I had to make snap picks on..." I wish I knew if there were a significant number of Ds on the last LG section to make it worth rolling the dice on for my rest of the test ><

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Stringer6
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Re: USS BP Decides whether you should cancel your LSAT

Postby Stringer6 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:58 am

-first time taking LSAT
-recent PT scores 167, 166, 167, 167, 170 (-7 LG, Dinos), 172, 166 (day before test, Dec 09 PT)
-GPA: 3.53
-schools: fordham, cardozo, brooklyn
-bad: guessed on 7 LG questions
-good: think other sections went well, but it's hard to say
-i usually guess on 3 to 6 LG questions


Cancel?




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