misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

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Osos
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misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby Osos » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:02 am

Sorry for adding on to the long line of "should I cancel?" threads, but I felt like my situation might be a little different than the others. This is my first lsat, I've been consistently pting 175+, and I feel like I have a hsy-worthy gpa.

I misread a rule on a game (I added a "not" to an "is" for some stupid reason), and once i figured it out i only had time to fix one question in that section. It's really frustrating because I actually did the mulch game really fast and felt good until then. I'm assuming that I got 5 out of 6 of those questions wrong, which means I would probably have to get a 180 on the rest of it to get a 175. There may be a chance, I guess, I've gotten -0s on all my RC and LRs on the same test a couple of times, but it's not likely.

I want to keep my score just to see what it was, but I don't want to have to be burdened with needing a super high retake just to average to what I would've gotten if I could just read right.

I know there's not much to say, but I would really appreciate any advice or opinions since I'm down to flipping coins right now. :(

upwardtrend
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Re: misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby upwardtrend » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:07 am

since you know you got 5 wrong that you shouldnt have I would cancel- if you consistently PT at 175 or so it would be a shame to get a really subpar score after all your hard work. If you cancel you shouldnt have any big regrets considering you KNOW you missed at least 5.

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Osos
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Re: misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby Osos » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:16 am

yeah... you are probably right. It just sucks because I felt really good about the other sections.

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Osos
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Re: misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby Osos » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:45 pm

bump

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merichard87
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Re: misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby merichard87 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:49 pm

Investigate whether HYS average scores or take the highest. If they don't average its a non-issue. You might have surprised yourself.

crossingforHYS
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Re: misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby crossingforHYS » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:53 pm

I'm in a similiar situation, well pseudo similiar ...HYS says they do average...:(

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bk1
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Re: misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby bk1 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:59 pm

crossingforHYS wrote:I'm in a similiar situation, well pseudo similiar ...HYS says they do average...:(


What they say and what they do are two different things. Best thing I can recommend is to take a look at LSN of people who "should" have been Harvard admits (it is a lot harder with Y/S) and see why they got WL'ed or rejected and see if it was because of multiple LSAT's or that their high score put them in of the auto-admit pile but their average took them out of it.

From what I recall of people talking about the last admission cycle, people who took the LSAT multiple times were hurt a bit by Harvard.

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burtonrideclub
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Re: misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby burtonrideclub » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:01 pm

I cancelled the first time I took the lsat because I KNEW I blew a game. I don't regret it. If you are testing that high then you are almost guaranteed to have a score you wont like with a blown game.

09042014
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Re: misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:06 pm

If you know you blew something you don't normally do, and have a GPA and practice average in the t6 level cancel. Everyone else should only cancel if they had a epically bad day, beyond missing one rule.

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justinmcl
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Re: misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby justinmcl » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:10 pm

How high are people looking at a T6 in the states aiming for? Do you look to go far over? I am not in America, and am aiming for the best school in my country, have well over the GPA, and so am aiming for the average LSAT score of accepted candidates there (167), or at worse 2 or 3 below that.... should I be aiming for more? I never even considered cancelling until I started reading all these threads about it...

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badwithpseudonyms
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Re: misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby badwithpseudonyms » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:12 pm

You PT at 175 and have a high GPA, and you're wondering if you should cancel? Holy book-smart, Batman!

TCR is "Yes. You should most definitely cancel."

/thread

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justinmcl
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Re: misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby justinmcl » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:12 pm

BTW, not trying to highjack your thread Osos, just in a similar position, with slightly different circumstances, and there are already lots of independent cancellation threads.

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Osos
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Re: misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby Osos » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:44 pm

Thank you guys :) My parents and boyfriend are all saying to keep it, i might have guessed right, a 172 would still be great, etc. I want to believe them, but deep down I knew I fucked up and I should retake. If I get a 172, it won't get me into hys. I'm really depressed, but what can you do.

On that note, does a cancel not look that good either? It's not something I should explain, right?

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bedefan
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Re: misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby bedefan » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:11 pm

Curious about this too. How bad does a cancel look?

OP, if I knew I'd bombed one of the games, I'd think pretty seriously about canceling. On the other hand, was bombing a LG (and for a 175+ hotshot like you, "bombing" could mean 4 wrong) something you'd done before in your PTs? If it was, you have to consider the possibility that the same will happen (due to nerves) on the next real LSAT you take... In which case, probably don't cancel. Hope for a 174, get ready for a 172 and be OK with that.

My situation is pretty similar. All my PTs, aside from two where I guessed on a whole LG (the ol' mental freeze was not unknown to me, shoulda seen it coming...), were 175-180. The PTs where I did guess on a whole LG, I scored a 172 and 173, respectively.

On this last test, I found that interns game so baffling that, with 5 Q's to go and 5 minutes left, I gave up hope of solving them and narrowed each Q down to two options and just picked. The final Q I didn't get to, so I know I got that one wrong (i.e. I had realized what the correct answer was, but time was called before I could fill it in, and I'm a total boy scout about following rules I sign my name agreeing to). But those other 4... coulda got 'em all right, coulda got 'em all wrong.

That, plus the fact that nerves affect my ability to do logic games, means I won't be canceling. For you though, especially if you've set your little heart on HYS (heartbreakers!)... Tough decision.

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Chimica
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Re: misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby Chimica » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:15 pm

A cancel might not look good, but if you are looking at

A cancel and a 176 (assume you do wll next time) ----> 176 (with a tiny question-there are plenty of good reasons to cancel-maybe your dog died, you broke your hand during the break, you got appendicitis)

vs.

A 168 and a 176 -----------> 172 (no real question)


I assumed that you normally get about 8 wrong for a 175, so if you did as well as normal you got 8+5 and you have 13 wrong. Unless the curve is generous this puts you below 170.

Now maybe you did awesome in every other section, but you'd need to determine your odds of getting a -3, instead of your usual -8.

Unless the rest of the test felt like a 180, cancel.

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bedefan
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Re: misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby bedefan » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:27 pm

Chimica wrote:A cancel might not look good, but if you are looking at

A cancel and a 176 (assume you do wll next time) ----> 176 (with a tiny question-there are plenty of good reasons to cancel-maybe your dog died, you broke your hand during the break, you got appendicitis)

vs.

A 168 and a 176 -----------> 172 (no real question)


I assumed that you normally get about 8 wrong for a 175, so if you did as well as normal you got 8+5 and you have 13 wrong. Unless the curve is generous this puts you below 170.

Now maybe you did awesome in every other section, but you'd need to determine your odds of getting a -3, instead of your usual -8.

Unless the rest of the test felt like a 180, cancel.


Or she could be averaging 5 or 6 wrong per PT, which, depending on the curve, puts her at 175 consistently and sometimes above it... In which case, if she guessed on 5 Q's on the test yesterday, the best reasonable case is either two of those guesses are right, or one is right and another is one she would've got wrong anyway... Which puts her at just 8 or 9 wrong instead of 5 or 6 wrong. If the test was curved -10 for a 170, that'd put her just above 170. Worst reasonable case, assuming she performed as usual on the rest of the test, is -5 + -6 = -11... If the test is curved at -10 for a 170 (btw, this is the average for June tests) then that puts her at 169.

Time to decide if the HYS (especially H) dream is worth the pain?

berkeleykel06
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Re: misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby berkeleykel06 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:33 pm

bedefan wrote:Curious about this too. How bad does a cancel look?

OP, if I knew I'd bombed one of the games, I'd think pretty seriously about canceling. On the other hand, was bombing a LG (and for a 175+ hotshot like you, "bombing" could mean 4 wrong) something you'd done before in your PTs? If it was, you have to consider the possibility that the same will happen (due to nerves) on the next real LSAT you take... In which case, probably don't cancel. Hope for a 174, get ready for a 172 and be OK with that.

My situation is pretty similar. All my PTs, aside from two where I guessed on a whole LG (the ol' mental freeze was not unknown to me, shoulda seen it coming...), were 175-180. The PTs where I did guess on a whole LG, I scored a 172 and 173, respectively.

On this last test, I found that interns game so baffling that, with 5 Q's to go and 5 minutes left, I gave up hope of solving them and narrowed each Q down to two options and just picked. The final Q I didn't get to, so I know I got that one wrong (i.e. I had realized what the correct answer was, but time was called before I could fill it in, and I'm a total boy scout about following rules I sign my name agreeing to). But those other 4... coulda got 'em all right, coulda got 'em all wrong.

That, plus the fact that nerves affect my ability to do logic games, means I won't be canceling. For you though, especially if you've set your little heart on HYS (heartbreakers!)... Tough decision.


I think the bolded is an important consideration. This was my second LSAT, I have an HYS-worthy GPA, and my PTs were all right at 175. I freaked out during the RC section of my 1st LSAT attempt and guessed on almost a whole passage when I normal get -0/-1 (worst I've ever PTed was -3 and that was only once). Went -6. I believed that RC section was a crazy fluke and thought for sure that the same thing wouldn't happen on my 2nd LSAT attempt. Unfortunately, the same exact thing happened to me yesterday. Despite all of my mental preparation to dominate the RC passage, I completely bombed once again and expect a similar -6. Since I rely on a near-perfect RC in order to get a 175, I know it is impossible.

If you think you did as well as usual on your other sections, I would consider keeping the score. What if the same thing were to happen the next time you take the test, but in addition you make a couple of more errors in your other sections than usual? Even 175 PTers are not perfect and may fall victim to nerves on test day (I used to think people who PT at 175 were invincible until I consistently starting PTing there as well. Now I realize how precariously perched we are b/c one bad section and it is /our heads).

Edit: Though if you believe your misreading of the rules had nothing to do with nerves I suppose your case would be different than mine, although it can be hard in such cases to know for sure whether it was nerves that made you misread or if it was just pure randomness.
Last edited by berkeleykel06 on Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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badwithpseudonyms
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Re: misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby badwithpseudonyms » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:37 pm

Osos wrote:Thank you guys :) My parents and boyfriend are all saying to keep it, i might have guessed right, a 172 would still be great, etc. I want to believe them, but deep down I knew I fucked up and I should retake. If I get a 172, it won't get me into hys. I'm really depressed, but what can you do.

On that note, does a cancel not look that good either? It's not something I should explain, right?

It's definitely a bummer, but with your practice test scores and GPA there's no good reason not to cancel, especially if it's not a case of nerves.

I waited to see a score when I knew I didn't do anywhere near my best, and I really regret it. I still did okay for my numbers this cycle, but you have a shot at the best of the best and the chips might not fall in your favor. I remember everyone around me telling me to "wait and see how [I] did", etc., but they have no clue how slim the margin of error is, and they will support you regardless.

From everything I've read on here (which is a lot) a cancel doesn't mean anything to adcomms. There could be 10,000 reasons you canceled your score. They're a bunch of lawyers and they know they can't make any assumptions about what that score might have been.

From personal experience, studying the second time around was not nearly as bad. By this point, it should be old hat.

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bedefan
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Re: misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby bedefan » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:50 pm

badwithpseudonyms wrote:
Osos wrote:Thank you guys :) My parents and boyfriend are all saying to keep it, i might have guessed right, a 172 would still be great, etc. I want to believe them, but deep down I knew I fucked up and I should retake. If I get a 172, it won't get me into hys. I'm really depressed, but what can you do.

On that note, does a cancel not look that good either? It's not something I should explain, right?

It's definitely a bummer, but with your practice test scores and GPA there's no good reason not to cancel, especially if it's not a case of nerves.

I waited to see a score when I knew I didn't do anywhere near my best, and I really regret it. I still did okay for my numbers this cycle, but you have a shot at the best of the best and the chips might not fall in your favor. I remember everyone around me telling me to "wait and see how [I] did", etc., but they have no clue how slim the margin of error is, and they will support you regardless.

From everything I've read on here (which is a lot) a cancel doesn't mean anything to adcomms. There could be 10,000 reasons you canceled your score. They're a bunch of lawyers and they know they can't make any assumptions about what that score might have been.

From personal experience, studying the second time around was not nearly as bad. By this point, it should be old hat.


Agree that if it's not nerves -- was just a total fluke -- canceling might be wise.

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Osos
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Re: misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby Osos » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:08 pm

Again, thanks so much for the support you guys. This is a really great community to have. I just have one last consideration i want to get some feedback on. So, it might be that I misread it due to nerves, but I'm sure that if I took it again I wouldn't be as nervous/ forgetful. So that means I should retake.

BUT if i retake in October, then I will have to take it abroad in a developing country, which will be pretty hectic. I could keep my score and then retake in December to try to get off waitlists if I get put on them for lik Stanford or something. Or I could just take a year off (I'm still in college). Of these three options, which seems best?

Again, I really appreciate and will carefully consider all your feedback.

rando
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Re: misread rule, high gpa, should I cancel?

Postby rando » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:21 pm

Not to answer your above questions but . . .

The same exact thing happened to me and I didn't cancel. I had studied so hard and was so sick of it that I couldn't fathom re-taking. I also didn't have a TLS community like this to help steer my decision (I took in 2004).

I ended up getting 7 below my average practice scores. Basically attribute a couple points to nerves, putting me on the lower end of my PT spectrum and -5 on the logic game that I blew.

I was so depressed when I got my score that I decided not to go to law school. Took several years off and then decided that even though I wouldn't be going to what I used to consider my dream school, I could still make it.

Fast forward, top 5%, LR, good summer job. Even though I'm not where I thought I would be, its not the end of the world. No matter what choice you make, you can still make it work.




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