Two cancels and a 158- need to explore options

lawschooloneday
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Two cancels and a 158- need to explore options

Postby lawschooloneday » Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:09 am

I know there are many posts of people complaining and asking for reassurance, so please bear with me for I need some honest advice on how to proceed.

Here is my back story, I graduated from a top 30 UG with a pretty nice gpa (magna cum laude and Phi beta Kappa). I took the lsat (June 09) after I graduated last year with three weeks prep. I know it was a pretty bad decision (I thought I could more or less "wing it" like I did with my SATs which I did pretty well on). I ended up canceling the score (I could blame the dinos, but I was not prepared). I then studied all summer, taking PTs and scoring from 166 to 170 (getting 174 on one exam). When I went to take the exam in September, the night before I had an extreme anxiety attack and slept for less than two hours (it was pretty bad). I took the exam and scored a 158. I then decided I was going to break from the LSAT and started studying again in March 2010 for June test. Today, I took the test and did very well until I got to Logic games (s3). I screwed up the second game by writing down one of the rules down wrong. I ruined my focus and started to panic. I ended up canceling during the break bc I knew it was the real one. I thought there was a good chance I got -12-13 on that section.

Now I have two cancels (non sequential) and a 158. I work for a finance consulting firm that pays for 3/4 of my MBA should I wanna go to business school but my heart is fully set on law school. I want to do corporate/business law and to stay in the New York or Philadelphia area. Would I have a shot a Fordham/Cardozo part time? I do not think I can handle taking the LSAT again (even if I get a law school to write the LSAC) so any recommendations on how to proceed with my current profile would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I have pretty awesome softs and LORs. I have a letter from the president of my university, was nominated for 2010 Volunteer Big Brother of the Year Award in New York City (been involved in the program for 5 years) and won an award for the best honors thesis my senior year. I know it cant make up for my LSAT history, but cannot hurt in the admissions process. I am not an URM.
Last edited by lawschooloneday on Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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quishiclocus
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Re: Please tell me how I can save my chances after screwing up

Postby quishiclocus » Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:23 am

Heart set on law school doesn't mean you have to do it right now. Worse comes to worst, if you start addressing your obvious anxiety problem right now, work for a couple years, take the LSAT again once you can, do as well as you deserve to do. Addressing anxiety problems does not happen quickly and you're going to need to be able to have it in hand before you get to law school, anyway. If a good law school depends on the LSAT, and a good job depends on law school grades, and you want one of those good jobs, you're going to need to be able to really bring your A-game to testing situations in the future. Therapy and medication are good things.

lawschooloneday
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Re: Please tell me how I can save my chances after screwing up

Postby lawschooloneday » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:32 pm

quishiclocus wrote:Heart set on law school doesn't mean you have to do it right now. Worse comes to worst, if you start addressing your obvious anxiety problem right now, work for a couple years, take the LSAT again once you can, do as well as you deserve to do. Addressing anxiety problems does not happen quickly and you're going to need to be able to have it in hand before you get to law school, anyway. If a good law school depends on the LSAT, and a good job depends on law school grades, and you want one of those good jobs, you're going to need to be able to really bring your A-game to testing situations in the future. Therapy and medication are good things.


Thanks for your response. Yes you are right that I need to work on anxiety issues and that such underlying issues may potentially hinder law school performance. Nonetheless, I still would like like to apply at the end of this summer for the following year. Any idea which is the best law school (for financial/business law) that I can get into? I had a full ride for undergrad and saved up some money after college, so paying full price is not a deterrent. I just want to receive the best education potential have the best career prospects given my numbers. Thanks!

WestOfTheRest
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Re: Please tell me how I can save my chances after screwing up

Postby WestOfTheRest » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:43 pm

If you refuse to retake I feel that you are throwing away what sounds like a potentially perfect app save your LSAT record. You should really consider taking it again because there is no point in ruining a good gpa wit great softs.

NonTradHealthLaw
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Re: Please tell me how I can save my chances after screwing up

Postby NonTradHealthLaw » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:46 pm

lawschooloneday wrote:
Any idea which is the best law school (for financial/business law) that I can get into?


Nowhere if you can't finish the test. Since you mentioned you have the money to spend on law school it may also be prudent to spend some money talking with a therapist about managing anxiety. Anxiety is crippling for many people but it's fully 'defeatable.' For the future you may wish to request from your physician a one-month sleeping pill prescription. Worked wonders for me - I'd been having bouts of nausea starting about two weeks ago. Simply consistently getting 8 hours of sleep was sufficient for quelling those bouts. You clearly have the intelligence to own this test - now it's time to get the constitution.

lawschooloneday
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Re: Please tell me how I can save my chances after screwing up

Postby lawschooloneday » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:48 pm

CastleRock wrote:If you refuse to retake I feel that you are throwing away what sounds like a potentially perfect app save your LSAT record. You should really consider taking it again because there is no point in ruining a good gpa wit great softs.


How would I even go about to take a test again? Is it difficult to get a waiver with LSAC? I technically took it three times in a 2 year window (even though there were two cancellations).

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zworykin
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Re: Please tell me how I can save my chances after screwing up

Postby zworykin » Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:02 pm

You don't get the waiver from LSAC, you get it from a school. Pick a school you plan to apply to and ask them if they'll give you a waiver to take a 4th LSAT because of (fill in the blank here with whatever the circumstances are that you feel merit awarding you a 4th test).

Or, you know, wait a while. I believe it's a rolling 2 year window, so you should be able to take another test once 2 years have passed after your first one--and even if not, you'll only have to wait 2 years.

lawschooloneday
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Re: Please tell me how I can save my chances after screwing up

Postby lawschooloneday » Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:04 pm

NonTradHealthLaw wrote:
lawschooloneday wrote:
Any idea which is the best law school (for financial/business law) that I can get into?


Nowhere if you can't finish the test. Since you mentioned you have the money to spend on law school it may also be prudent to spend some money talking with a therapist about managing anxiety. Anxiety is crippling for many people but it's fully 'defeatable.' For the future you may wish to request from your physician a one-month sleeping pill prescription. Worked wonders for me - I'd been having bouts of nausea starting about two weeks ago. Simply consistently getting 8 hours of sleep was sufficient for quelling those bouts. You clearly have the intelligence to own this test - now it's time to get the constitution.


Thats true, I should ask my doc for some ativan to take before the test haha. In all seriousness though, If I can, I may take the exam again. But I think its better for me to first accept the lower score and have a viable alternative in case my score does not increase or I am not allowed to take it again. I think the stress and expectation of performing really high is my biggest obstacle.

Would Cardozo part time, or Booklyn law be decent routes/and would I have a shot at them? I figure, worst case scenario and I do not get a cushy firm job, I can use my JD degree and come back and do consulting at mckinsey (they promote to associate level for JDs, regardless of school as long as you are a highly reviewed analyst).

trudat15
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Re: Two cancels and a 158- need to explore options

Postby trudat15 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:19 pm

As you are fairly young, I'd recommend taking it again. Your GPA and LORs and such will really help you get into a top school if you had a good LSAT score, and given your PT history, it sounds like you really could get one. Maybe take some time to address your anxiety issue and come back to the LSAT when it's resolved. By then, you'll have passed the 2 year window.
You could also do what I know one other guy did: He did horribly on the LSAT, and so didnt apply to school. He worked for awhile, then came back to the LSAT a few years later. LSAC will take off the old scores from his profile (since they only last 5 years total) and he retook and rocked the LSAT, and now will be applying to a top 10 school in the fall. Granted, he's now 28 as opposed to going to school at 22, but he's likely to get into a very good school, which I think meant more to him in the longrun than hurrying to go to an acceptable school.

Aggiegrad2011
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Re: Two cancels and a 158- need to explore options

Postby Aggiegrad2011 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:05 pm

Speak with a physician. You can sometimes get a prescription for a Beta blocker, like Propranolol, that will quiet your test jitters.

It's an extreme, but it's no more crazy than a physician Rx'ing an antibiotic for a viral infection and there isn't anything illegal or questionable about it.

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goawaybee
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Re: Two cancels and a 158- need to explore options

Postby goawaybee » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:20 am

ativan/scrips etc...

I did the ativan thing to help hold me together periodically to help ease anxiety and as a sleep aid for a few days(3-4) wks 3-2 counting down until test. Then the final 5 days took it 4/5 days. I feel residual effects aided in my "easy breezy" mood come test day. I have noticed many pluses/but more minuses with med related issues during test days.

I think it is a core issues deal. The meds can help but at times your "mind" will blow through the medication and attack you when you go to sit for the test. Most of the meds you build a tolerance,etc... I agree with the therapy move for an overall quality of life increase.

-

Get the waiver and retest if you are confident. You can make it happen. Could wait and keep climbing the ranks at work for another year or more. Earn more stripes, grow tired of "working" , retest, attend LS and proceed with your life. Always have backups for backups (ie your mckinsey consulting/ given solid reviews plan, maybe a few other options for good measure). Plenty of ways to skin this cat. You can mash this thing up. Given a solid work history, Undergrad etc...I do believe you should capitalize and retest and have as many options as possible when it comes to selecting what LS to attend. In the real world names matter, you never where you will end up in life or want to end up. Imagine if you ate it during undergrad, how feasible would all of this be without that piece of the puzzle. CYA in life approach. I lean towards, retest smash it, keep your future options WIDE open. check into the meds/therapy game. Worth a glance.

Do your thing.

lawschooloneday
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Re: Two cancels and a 158- need to explore options

Postby lawschooloneday » Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:08 pm

So is the consensus is that I should not even consider Cardozo or Brooklyn part time?

Does anyone support paying in full for either brookyln or Cardozo? I guess I could get a waiver and take it again, but just wanted to see if anyone supports a decesion not to retake and go to a lower ranked program.

My gf just got into Columbia jd/MBA (damn her with her 177 LSAT) so I never planned to bring in all the money lol.

nyuundergrad11
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Re: Two cancels and a 158- need to explore options

Postby nyuundergrad11 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:55 pm

lawschooloneday wrote:So is the consensus is that I should not even consider Cardozo or Brooklyn part time?

Does anyone support paying in full for either brookyln or Cardozo? I guess I could get a waiver and take it again, but just wanted to see if anyone supports a decesion not to retake and go to a lower ranked program.

My gf just got into Columbia jd/MBA (damn her with her 177 LSAT) so I never planned to bring in all the money lol.



Dude, arent you afraid if you dont take the lsat again and get in a better ranked school, your big shot gf will dump you? Seriously man, I think that should be your motivation.

I am not too sure how career prospects are for cardozo or brooklyn part time, but with someone with your background, i would think you should just suck it up and retake it. I am not a fan of taking meds like many people on this forum recommends (and everyone at my school takes), but def just suck it up and retake.

On a side note, I am applying in the fall for the Mckinsey analyst program and planning to apply to law school two-three years after undergrad too. Hopefully, I wont have as bad of an lsat experience.

Good luck

bubiglaw
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Re: Two cancels and a 158- need to explore options

Postby bubiglaw » Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:09 pm

lawschooloneday wrote:So is the consensus is that I should not even consider Cardozo or Brooklyn part time?

Does anyone support paying in full for either brookyln or Cardozo? I guess I could get a waiver and take it again, but just wanted to see if anyone supports a decesion not to retake and go to a lower ranked program.

My gf just got into Columbia jd/MBA (damn her with her 177 LSAT) so I never planned to bring in all the money lol.


I say go for Brooklyn or Cardozo. I mean the people on this forum assume that if you do not go to a top 14, you are screwed for life. You are clearly pretty smart and have some good experience, there should be nothing stopping you for being at the top of your class at whatever law school you go to. Ill tell you something, I went to a top 25 law school and graduated the top 1/4 of my class and I got rejected from many top law firms that took kids from Americanand believe or not Cardozo! Its really not the end of the world and career prospects are ok even if you dont go to a top 14. Just so you know....

bubiglaw
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Re: Two cancels and a 158- need to explore options

Postby bubiglaw » Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:13 pm

Plus man, I forgot to add that Cardozo alums have the school pride because they want to see their grads succeed so they can improve their ranking (maybe the jewish affiliation does help, no flame intended). I mean, its a new law school and its got pretty decent exposure to top law firms. Many top law firms in New York (where I am going to start working in two weeks), have guys that graduated from Cardozo and the top law firms appear to recruit there.- I would choose Cardozo over Brooklyn. Your lsat looks to pretty low for Cardozo even, but maybe your GPA and softs could rule it out.

scottindc
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Re: Two cancels and a 158- need to explore options

Postby scottindc » Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:30 pm

dude trust me, you will F*ck yourself over if you go to Brooklyn or Cardozo. Dont you realize that the legal market is declining quickly, the corporate billable hour model is changing, and people are going into ridiculous amounts of debt for no decent career prospects? It is true, its t25 (or maybe top 20) or nothing at all, and Brooklyn and Cardozo will never make the list.

Why dont you just stay in consulting and get your MBA. Its clearly the better route for you. If you do foolishly decide to go to law school, you are going to end up in debt, get dumped by your gf and then hate yourself. You will be one of those people that visit the lawyers with depression website. Or you could stay at your company, go to business school and actually go to school where you will have some respect. Cardozo and booklyn will never be respected on a resume. Hate to break to you folks and dont mean to hate on the people who go there, but in the elitist field of law, its true. They are lower tiered schools that are backups for people who cannot make into NYU/Columbia or even Fordham. Also, are you sure that Mckinsey would hire you back as an associate with a JD from Cardozo or Brooklyn? Unless you get something definite from a partner there, I doubt Mckinsey would even take you back if you graduate from one of these law schools.

In conclusion, either retake your lsat and score above a 168 or choose another career. Trust me, its not worth it.

lawschoolhelp
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Re: Two cancels and a 158- need to explore options

Postby lawschoolhelp » Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:46 pm

In conclusion, either retake your lsat and score above a 168 or choose another career. Trust me, its not worth it.[/quote]


Saw this posting: Kinda harsh- if law it what you truly want to do, go for it. dont care so much about other people think.

bestusernameever
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Re: Two cancels and a 158- need to explore options

Postby bestusernameever » Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:36 pm

dude, you are just like someone else who posted today. Seriously, stop complaining and just accept it. You tried three times and failed. Its not the end of the world. Accept it, it is not meant to be. I am sure you will be successful in life, but it may not be in the field of law. You have a job at Mckinsey, shouldn't you just be happy with that. People would kill for that job (as I am sure you would for a higher LSAT score). Sooner you accept it, the sooner you will be happy.

Also, I do not think about cardozo or brooklyn part time unless they offer you money (and based on your poor lsat, they prob wont). Sounds like your gf is meant to be a lawyer and you are not. Not the end of the world. I agree with someone who posted earlier, I would be worried about her dumping you (mildly jk) in the future




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