How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Shrimps
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How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby Shrimps » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:45 pm

California test takers sending their East Coast friends.. er.. accomplices to answer and memorize, say, the first coupla games, take the full 35 minutes to do just the first two RC passages and memorize their answers, etc.? I'm not talking about fake-eye spy cameras. Just people with good memorization skills.

Why not make the test take place at the same time everywhere in the US?

lawchampion
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby lawchampion » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:50 pm

Shrimps wrote:California test takers sending their East Coast friends.. er.. accomplices to answer and memorize, say, the first coupla games, take the full 35 minutes to do just the first two RC passages and memorize their answers, etc.? I'm not talking about fake-eye spy cameras. Just people with good memorization skills.

Why not make the test take place at the same time everywhere in the US?


Technically impossible

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:52 pm

lawchampion wrote:
Shrimps wrote:California test takers sending their East Coast friends.. er.. accomplices to answer and memorize, say, the first coupla games, take the full 35 minutes to do just the first two RC passages and memorize their answers, etc.? I'm not talking about fake-eye spy cameras. Just people with good memorization skills.

Why not make the test take place at the same time everywhere in the US?


Technically impossible


Why do you say that?

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Mike12188
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby Mike12188 » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:54 pm

Kobe_Teeth wrote:
lawchampion wrote:
Shrimps wrote:California test takers sending their East Coast friends.. er.. accomplices to answer and memorize, say, the first coupla games, take the full 35 minutes to do just the first two RC passages and memorize their answers, etc.? I'm not talking about fake-eye spy cameras. Just people with good memorization skills.

Why not make the test take place at the same time everywhere in the US?


Technically impossible


Why do you say that?


[strike]Maybe because when its 1pm on the east coast its only 10am in California.[/strike]

edit: RC fail on my part, hope that doesn't happen tom.

lawchampion
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby lawchampion » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:58 pm

Kobe_Teeth wrote:
lawchampion wrote:
Shrimps wrote:California test takers sending their East Coast friends.. er.. accomplices to answer and memorize, say, the first coupla games, take the full 35 minutes to do just the first two RC passages and memorize their answers, etc.? I'm not talking about fake-eye spy cameras. Just people with good memorization skills.

Why not make the test take place at the same time everywhere in the US?


Technically impossible


Why do you say that?

Take a look at the US time zones map and you'll get some idea.

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Remnantofisrael
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby Remnantofisrael » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:02 pm

Because by the time THEIR test ends, east coast tests have started. You aren't allowed access to cell phones. EVEN IF timing worked (they call you on their break somehow) what is it that they are going to explain to you that gives you a boost? That there is a logic game about dinos? That might in fact be experimental? That there is a RC section about native americans and, according to your friend, the authors attitude was "unmoved by the critics cases"? I mean, really, is it worth it for your friend to take the risk of being caught on a cell phone to give you MAYBE a 1-3 pt boost?

It may have happened, but its not likely its happened more or even as often as someone turning ahead or behind and working out of section.

Its not worth cheating on this test. You test poorly, you can retake. On your last retake if you test poorly, you'll still go to law school somewhere. And if you cheat and test great and go to UVA, you will die on the vine at school.

IMHO anyone who would cheat on this test is an idiot.

mz253
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby mz253 » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:06 pm

i'm more thinking about taking a quick look at the section type and decide on which one is experimental. man, you go far ahead of me.

howcani111
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby howcani111 » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:17 pm

Remnantofisrael wrote:Because by the time THEIR test ends, east coast tests have started. You aren't allowed access to cell phones. EVEN IF timing worked (they call you on their break somehow) what is it that they are going to explain to you that gives you a boost? That there is a logic game about dinos? That might in fact be experimental? That there is a RC section about native americans and, according to your friend, the authors attitude was "unmoved by the critics cases"? I mean, really, is it worth it for your friend to take the risk of being caught on a cell phone to give you MAYBE a 1-3 pt boost?

It may have happened, but its not likely its happened more or even as often as someone turning ahead or behind and working out of section.

Its not worth cheating on this test. You test poorly, you can retake. On your last retake if you test poorly, you'll still go to law school somewhere. And if you cheat and test great and go to UVA, you will die on the vine at school.

IMHO anyone who would cheat on this test is an idiot.


lol "die on the vine" wtf is that supposed to mean?

lawchampion
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby lawchampion » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:32 pm

howcani111 wrote:
Remnantofisrael wrote:Because by the time THEIR test ends, east coast tests have started. You aren't allowed access to cell phones. EVEN IF timing worked (they call you on their break somehow) what is it that they are going to explain to you that gives you a boost? That there is a logic game about dinos? That might in fact be experimental? That there is a RC section about native americans and, according to your friend, the authors attitude was "unmoved by the critics cases"? I mean, really, is it worth it for your friend to take the risk of being caught on a cell phone to give you MAYBE a 1-3 pt boost?

It may have happened, but its not likely its happened more or even as often as someone turning ahead or behind and working out of section.

Its not worth cheating on this test. You test poorly, you can retake. On your last retake if you test poorly, you'll still go to law school somewhere. And if you cheat and test great and go to UVA, you will die on the vine at school.

IMHO anyone who would cheat on this test is an idiot.


Taking a risk is same as buying lottery tickets...you never know

lol "die on the vine" wtf is that supposed to mean?

Shrimps
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby Shrimps » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:34 pm

Remnantofisrael wrote: I mean, really, is it worth it for your friend to take the risk of being caught on a cell phone to give you MAYBE a 1-3 pt boost?
...
Its not worth cheating on this test. You test poorly, you can retake. On your last retake if you test poorly, you'll still go to law school somewhere. And if you cheat and test great and go to UVA, you will die on the vine at school.

IMHO anyone who would cheat on this test is an idiot.


Yeah, yeah, noble sentiments all.

A person may be fairly good at, say, RC and LR and badly suck at LG. He may ask someone smart and good at this sort of thing on the East Coast to take the test and memorize the answers to the games section, cancel after the first 3 sections (complaining about nausea/splitting headaches will do the trick without arousing most proctors' suspicions), and thus be out of the building before the California cheater needs to be in his. The chance that the real games section is one of the first three sections is 60%. If it's not, both can cancel and retake later. Cheating of this decidedly low-tech sort can boost the cheater's score by 8-10 points.

I say make the east coasters be at the test center at 1pm and the west coasters at 10am, or so. Then they definitely won't have enough time to communicate.

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Remnantofisrael
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby Remnantofisrael » Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:35 pm

I'm not arguing that it CAN'T happen. Just that it would be idiotic to do it. Hey, if you have a friend who hasn't taken the LSAT, but IS really good, who is willing to do this for you, and you are willing to lose your entire career prospectus, then fine, more power to you.

I would also suggest to that person to watch the proctors, and when they aren't looking, to look ahead in the book and figure out which is the false section, so when they get to that section they can skip it and spend more time on the other sections while the proctor isn't looking.

For that matter, they should give the proctor $5k to give them a test early and have them sneak it into the stack.

Or if they do poorly, hit a button they plant in their shoe which pages a friend to call in a bomb threat.

Take solace in the fact that someone who has to cheat to get to a good law school isn't likely to succeed in that law school.

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Remnantofisrael
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby Remnantofisrael » Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:45 pm

lawchampion wrote:
howcani111 wrote:
Remnantofisrael wrote:Because by the time THEIR test ends, east coast tests have started. You aren't allowed access to cell phones. EVEN IF timing worked (they call you on their break somehow) what is it that they are going to explain to you that gives you a boost? That there is a logic game about dinos? That might in fact be experimental? That there is a RC section about native americans and, according to your friend, the authors attitude was "unmoved by the critics cases"? I mean, really, is it worth it for your friend to take the risk of being caught on a cell phone to give you MAYBE a 1-3 pt boost?

It may have happened, but its not likely its happened more or even as often as someone turning ahead or behind and working out of section.

Its not worth cheating on this test. You test poorly, you can retake. On your last retake if you test poorly, you'll still go to law school somewhere. And if you cheat and test great and go to UVA, you will die on the vine at school.

IMHO anyone who would cheat on this test is an idiot.


Taking a risk is same as buying lottery tickets...you never know

lol "die on the vine" wtf is that supposed to mean?


first, you can't lose your career (usually) over buying a lottery ticket. Not even close to the same thing on risk reward.

Second, "die on the vine" means you are part of the plant, but you die anyway. Think of a grape bunch on a vine. If that grape bunch is damaged or inferior in some way, it will DIE ON THE VINE. Similarly if you get into a good tough school and you don't have it in you to score well then you might just get your ass kicked in school. Its a relatively common turn of phrase.

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alicrimson
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby alicrimson » Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:52 pm

Remnantofisrael wrote:
lawchampion wrote:
howcani111 wrote:
Remnantofisrael wrote:Because by the time THEIR test ends, east coast tests have started. You aren't allowed access to cell phones. EVEN IF timing worked (they call you on their break somehow) what is it that they are going to explain to you that gives you a boost? That there is a logic game about dinos? That might in fact be experimental? That there is a RC section about native americans and, according to your friend, the authors attitude was "unmoved by the critics cases"? I mean, really, is it worth it for your friend to take the risk of being caught on a cell phone to give you MAYBE a 1-3 pt boost?

It may have happened, but its not likely its happened more or even as often as someone turning ahead or behind and working out of section.

Its not worth cheating on this test. You test poorly, you can retake. On your last retake if you test poorly, you'll still go to law school somewhere. And if you cheat and test great and go to UVA, you will die on the vine at school.

IMHO anyone who would cheat on this test is an idiot.


Taking a risk is same as buying lottery tickets...you never know

lol "die on the vine" wtf is that supposed to mean?


first, you can't lose your career (usually) over buying a lottery ticket. Not even close to the same thing on risk reward.

Second, "die on the vine" means you are part of the plant, but you die anyway. Think of a grape bunch on a vine. If that grape bunch is damaged or inferior in some way, it will DIE ON THE VINE. Similarly if you get into a good tough school and you don't have it in you to score well then you might just get your ass kicked in school. Its a relatively common turn of phrase.


Cue loosened URM standards rant-ers. :lol:

lawchampion
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby lawchampion » Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:54 pm

Remnantofisrael wrote:
lawchampion wrote:
howcani111 wrote:
Remnantofisrael wrote:Because by the time THEIR test ends, east coast tests have started. You aren't allowed access to cell phones. EVEN IF timing worked (they call you on their break somehow) what is it that they are going to explain to you that gives you a boost? That there is a logic game about dinos? That might in fact be experimental? That there is a RC section about native americans and, according to your friend, the authors attitude was "unmoved by the critics cases"? I mean, really, is it worth it for your friend to take the risk of being caught on a cell phone to give you MAYBE a 1-3 pt boost?

It may have happened, but its not likely its happened more or even as often as someone turning ahead or behind and working out of section.

Its not worth cheating on this test. You test poorly, you can retake. On your last retake if you test poorly, you'll still go to law school somewhere. And if you cheat and test great and go to UVA, you will die on the vine at school.

IMHO anyone who would cheat on this test is an idiot.

Let me disagree with you. Some T4's are lot harder to survive than T1's, especially the ones with super-high attrition rates

Taking a risk is same as buying lottery tickets...you never know

lol "die on the vine" wtf is that supposed to mean?


first, you can't lose your career (usually) over buying a lottery ticket. Not even close to the same thing on risk reward.

Second, "die on the vine" means you are part of the plant, but you die anyway. Think of a grape bunch on a vine. If that grape bunch is damaged or inferior in some way, it will DIE ON THE VINE. Similarly if you get into a good tough school and you don't have it in you to score well then you might just get your ass kicked in school. Its a relatively common turn of phrase.

joonhp
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby joonhp » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:05 pm

tests that are administered at the same center are usually ordered differently and have different experimentals. i think the lsac take the necessary steps to cover their bases with this type of cheating. you'd have to be lucky to get the same test anyway.

afa_brandon
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby afa_brandon » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:11 pm

--LinkRemoved--


just sayin

Tautology
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby Tautology » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:23 pm

Alaska and Hawaii gettin' no love in this thread.

WWAD
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby WWAD » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:01 pm

Tautology wrote:Alaska and Hawaii gettin' no love in this thread.


Where?

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a11 1n
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby a11 1n » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:02 pm

Remnantofisrael wrote:
For that matter, they should give the proctor $5k to give them a test early and have them sneak it into the stack.



Just try to be a little slicker than this guy
http://www.lawcrossing.com/article/3226/Cheating-Could-Mean-Jail-Time/

barnum
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby barnum » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:51 am

The time zone thing has been tried as well

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/jan/27/local/me-58227

Marino13
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby Marino13 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:51 pm

On this topic, does anyone know of the process LSAC takes if there is a "misconduct" violation or warning issued? Or if they think someone has cheated? If they would cancel everyone in the room's score or just that person?

mst
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby mst » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:00 pm

Tautology wrote:Alaska and Hawaii gettin' no love in this thread.


Who's Alaska and what's a Hawaii? Keep your dirty mouth to yourself.

mst
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby mst » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:01 pm

Marino13 wrote:On this topic, does anyone know of the process LSAC takes if there is a "misconduct" violation or warning issued? Or if they think someone has cheated? If they would cancel everyone in the room's score or just that person?


I really doubt that LSAC has it down for cancelling an entire rooms scores unless absolutely called for, especially when some rooms can have hundreds of people. When there is a violation, depending on the type, it goes on your file and/or they look into it by comparing your answers to those around you and looking for differences between your experimental and standard sections.

RPK34
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby RPK34 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:13 pm

If you have a LG or RC experimental, it wouldn't be that difficult to figure out which one it is (without talking to people)

mst
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Re: How much cheating do you think there's going on?

Postby mst » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:23 pm

LSAC doesn't doubt your ability to figure out which one is experimental if you're copying... They doubt your ability to perform to the same level on it as the real ones (which you would be copying), because typically the person your copying off of doesn't have that experimental.




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