Need LR Help, any advice is appreciated

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OklahomasOK
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Need LR Help, any advice is appreciated

Postby OklahomasOK » Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:35 pm

I'm having a great deal of trouble with LR. I've taken two full tests (PT 40, PT43), both of which were very respectable, 166 and 165. I have also completed about 20 separate LR sections for practice (Mostly from the first 20 LSAT's).

I'm having a terrible time with LR. I've gone through the LRB twice, once outlining the entire thing, and the second time intimately reviewing each question type. I have an Excel spreadsheet documenting each type of question I have missed and running totals. I'm having problems with Flaw, and MBT questions, both of which I personally feel are pretty simple questions, yet I miss a plethora of them. I've created flash cards to quiz myself over how to identify and process to answer each question type. I've gone through the PowerScore LR flash cards a couple times. I've outlined each mistake and hesitation I've made (about 120+).

My scores are wildly inconsistent. I've missed as few as -2, but recently (PT 44), missed -8 on a section. I've tried to go untimed, tried timed situations.

I'm looking for any advice that TLSers have that could help me reduce my LR errors. I really want to take the June exam. I'm nearly flawless with LG on every PT, my RC will get better the more I do. I feel it would be a terrible waste for me not to take the June exam when I'm doing so well in the other sections. I could very easily be in the high 160's if I could cut my LR errors in half (a modest -8 on LR per test).

Thanks in advance.

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theavrock
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Re: Need LR Help, any advice is appreciated

Postby theavrock » Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:49 pm

Advice that I received that has helped me immensely is to really drill down into why you got wrong what you did. What I do is write out the reason, in my own words why the right answer is right and why the answer I chose was wrong.

Instead of simply reviewing and saying oh I got that one wrong, if you can vocalize why you got it wrong it will help you in the future.

A lot of times when the answers don't jump out at me I try doing this as I am taking the test. Having practiced doing this really helps me do that process much quicker while taking timed tests.

afa_brandon
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Re: Need LR Help, any advice is appreciated

Postby afa_brandon » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:35 am

OklahomasOK wrote:I'm having a great deal of trouble with LR. I've taken two full tests (PT 40, PT43), both of which were very respectable, 166 and 165. I have also completed about 20 separate LR sections for practice (Mostly from the first 20 LSAT's).

I'm having a terrible time with LR. I've gone through the LRB twice, once outlining the entire thing, and the second time intimately reviewing each question type. I have an Excel spreadsheet documenting each type of question I have missed and running totals. I'm having problems with Flaw, and MBT questions, both of which I personally feel are pretty simple questions, yet I miss a plethora of them. I've created flash cards to quiz myself over how to identify and process to answer each question type. I've gone through the PowerScore LR flash cards a couple times. I've outlined each mistake and hesitation I've made (about 120+).

My scores are wildly inconsistent. I've missed as few as -2, but recently (PT 44), missed -8 on a section. I've tried to go untimed, tried timed situations.

I'm looking for any advice that TLSers have that could help me reduce my LR errors. I really want to take the June exam. I'm nearly flawless with LG on every PT, my RC will get better the more I do. I feel it would be a terrible waste for me not to take the June exam when I'm doing so well in the other sections. I could very easily be in the high 160's if I could cut my LR errors in half (a modest -8 on LR per test).

Thanks in advance.



it's hard to give tips on the overall section, b/c each question type warrants an often distinct approach.

I try to make it a rule that every time I have an assumption or strengthen question (my frequent-misses), I limit down to two answers, then scrutinize both. This might be prohibitive on time, but it forces you to consider answers much more closely than you would otherwise. On assumption questions, even if i'm 100% sure of an answer, i take the next contender and apply the Assumption Negation Technique.

i'm no expert (avg 2-3 wrong every LR), but what seems to work well for me is prephrasing. i read the stim, and immediately state in my head what type of question it is, then speculate to myself what the answer should sound like. More often than not i'm in the ballpark, but i'm methodical about it, so it's a definite confidence booster--by the time i read the first answer, i'm in control of the situation, using each answer to verify my prephrase, not looking at answers and hoping i can spot the right one.

I think prephrasing is also helpful because, when you're wrong, during your review you can examine why you were wrong. That way, for every wrong question, you have a solid "this is what the prephrase SHOULD have sounded like" feedback. Couple that with a solid and distinct "this is why i got this question wrong, next time i will _____ to avoid this" (for me, that ____ is usually "read more closely").

Finally, and i'm not 100% sure on this, so someone please pipe-in, but it seems to me that whenever i'm torn between two similar answers, the one that's smaller in scale is correct. for ex: answer A) all accountants have an ethical obligation to do blah blah blah in all situations vs answer C) in cases of x, accountants should blah blah blah. a simplistic example but you get my gist.

i have gotten in the habit of almost-defaulting to C, absent compelling reasoning for A

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theavrock
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Re: Need LR Help, any advice is appreciated

Postby theavrock » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:42 am

afa_brandon wrote:Finally, and i'm not 100% sure on this, so someone please pipe-in, but it seems to me that whenever i'm torn between two similar answers, the one that's smaller in scale is correct. for ex: answer A) all accountants have an ethical obligation to do blah blah blah in all situations vs answer C) in cases of x, accountants should blah blah blah. a simplistic example but you get my gist.

i have gotten in the habit of almost-defaulting to C, absent compelling reasoning for A


This is good advice as a principle. I would say more or less be wary of any choices that are very specific all, every etc. Especially in must be true questions or other questions where the correct answer must rely on information in the stimulus.

Obviously you can't use it as a hard and fast rule, but when you see it, just have it in the back of your mind that you should be wary of choices like that.

fiathebia
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Re: Need LR Help, any advice is appreciated

Postby fiathebia » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:57 pm

have you done all 20 lr sections as a whole or separated by q type? you need to focus on types. do a set of 25 flaw questions. do a set of 25 mbt questions. there are books specifically designed for this kind of practice or you can do it yourself with the spreadsheets here: http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2009/06/ls ... sheet.html.

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Mr. Smith
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Re: Need LR Help, any advice is appreciated

Postby Mr. Smith » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:19 pm

theavrock wrote:Advice that I received that has helped me immensely is to really drill down into why you got wrong what you did. What I do is write out the reason, in my own words why the right answer is right and why the answer I chose was wrong.

Instead of simply reviewing and saying oh I got that one wrong, if you can vocalize why you got it wrong it will help you in the future.

A lot of times when the answers don't jump out at me I try doing this as I am taking the test. Having practiced doing this really helps me do that process much quicker while taking timed tests.


Great advice. Someone said once that you make two mistakes when you get a question wrong:

1) You thought the wrong answer was right
2) You thought the right answer was wrong

You need to figure out why you made both of those mistakes for each question wrong.

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OklahomasOK
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Re: Need LR Help, any advice is appreciated

Postby OklahomasOK » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:23 pm

Thanks for the advice.

I took the last LR section of 44 today and quit after missing 7 of the first 19. I'm getting progressively worse the more I study. I tried to answer the questions with the LRB beside me, but I am doing much worse this way. I'm not just missing MBT and Flaw anymore, I'm missing everything. I can't see why my mistakes are wrong anymore. I'll narrow it down to two contenders and perform fact tests/ assumption negation/ etc, and still can't narrow them down to one.

If I can't correct this problem soon I might as well wait until October.

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OklahomasOK
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Re: Need LR Help, any advice is appreciated

Postby OklahomasOK » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:13 pm

Been studying and reviewing pretty rigorously... but scoring progressively worse.

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I'm doing very detailed review of my mistakes, spending more time trying to understand each problem. I feel like I'm regressing severely and not making progress. My problems have progressed to CR as well.

I need to regroup with the time I have before the June LSAT. If I'm capable of scoring 166 on PT 40 and 165 on PT 43, I feel like I should be scoring the same if not better. What should I do to shake off this poor trend?

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DaveBear07
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Re: Need LR Help, any advice is appreciated

Postby DaveBear07 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:25 pm

Sounds to me like you're getting burnt out. I'm studying for the June test right now and have only been drilling sections thus far so as to guard extremely careful against that very thing. During one stretch I was having a terrible time focusing and absorbing the LR questions and took 3 days off and came back and performed several points better, the next time I drilled a section I only missed 2.

So my advice would be to calm down, realize you have more than a month until the test, and be careful not to wear yourself down in any sense. We'll need to perform at our peak on test day.

Granted, this may not be the best strategy/advice for you. But personally, this is what is working for me.

joonhp
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Re: Need LR Help, any advice is appreciated

Postby joonhp » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:36 pm

I am getting really frustrated as well... I can't seem to break the -4/-5 mark for each LR section. I have started cutting out and compiling all the questions I really struggle with. I plan on dismantling each of these questions and writing out explanations to each answer. Hopefully this will help me and bring my average to -2/-3 per section. I have also been taking 1 to 2 test per day (some timed, some untimed). Do you guys think this might be causing the lack of improvement?

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Philipsssssss
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Re: Need LR Help, any advice is appreciated

Postby Philipsssssss » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:41 pm

I am in the same situation, however, here is an advice i see results with.

1) Do a timed test

2) Do not score it

2) Take a rest, then, come back and redo this same test (use same one even if its marked), with a red pen. Go slowly (or carefully) over each question and see if your reasoning changed. Sometimes, you will miss the same type of question even though you were going slowly, this will surely be a red flag - thus review carefully later. You will be amazed that sometimes even during an untimed section you will get the same exact question wrong again no matter how slowly you try to analyze it (the hard one you kinda felt you missed during the timed exam).

You have over a month left. Aim at 10 PT's, i.e. 10 timed and also untimed. It helps me.

about me:

I was deferring the past 2 years. I cannot study all my life for one exam, i need to take the risk while im prepared for the most part. I need to take it and see where i am at. If you are prepared, go for it. the LR section can be imporved in a month. But again, during the test itself, you can suddenly miss -5 on each section, no matter how good you are. Study and take it. I decided i will.

Just my 2 cents. :wink:

joonhp
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Re: Need LR Help, any advice is appreciated

Postby joonhp » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:58 pm

Thank you. I'm going to try your strategy tomorrow and see if it helps.

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OklahomasOK
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Re: Need LR Help, any advice is appreciated

Postby OklahomasOK » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:44 pm

Philipsssssss wrote:I am in the same situation, however, here is an advice i see results with.

1) Do a timed test

2) Do not score it

2) Take a rest, then, come back and redo this same test (use same one even if its marked), with a red pen. Go slowly (or carefully) over each question and see if your reasoning changed. Sometimes, you will miss the same type of question even though you were going slowly, this will surely be a red flag - thus review carefully later. You will be amazed that sometimes even during an untimed section you will get the same exact question wrong again no matter how slowly you try to analyze it (the hard one you kinda felt you missed during the timed exam).

You have over a month left. Aim at 10 PT's, i.e. 10 timed and also untimed. It helps me.

about me:

I was deferring the past 2 years. I cannot study all my life for one exam, i need to take the risk while im prepared for the most part. I need to take it and see where i am at. If you are prepared, go for it. the LR section can be imporved in a month. But again, during the test itself, you can suddenly miss -5 on each section, no matter how good you are. Study and take it. I decided i will.

Just my 2 cents. :wink:


I just worked through a section I completely bombed, this worked like a charm. Without knowing which ones I missed, I went back, reworked it, and missed only a couple. Cut my mistakes by 2/3rds.

I feel like I got much more out of my review this way, than I did outlining my mistakes. I did this for RC as well and caught a few mistakes.

Thanks again.

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Philipsssssss
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Re: Need LR Help, any advice is appreciated

Postby Philipsssssss » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:06 pm

OklahomasOK wrote:
Philipsssssss wrote:I am in the same situation, however, here is an advice i see results with.

1) Do a timed test

2) Do not score it

2) Take a rest, then, come back and redo this same test (use same one even if its marked), with a red pen. Go slowly (or carefully) over each question and see if your reasoning changed. Sometimes, you will miss the same type of question even though you were going slowly, this will surely be a red flag - thus review carefully later. You will be amazed that sometimes even during an untimed section you will get the same exact question wrong again no matter how slowly you try to analyze it (the hard one you kinda felt you missed during the timed exam).

You have over a month left. Aim at 10 PT's, i.e. 10 timed and also untimed. It helps me.

about me:

I was deferring the past 2 years. I cannot study all my life for one exam, i need to take the risk while im prepared for the most part. I need to take it and see where i am at. If you are prepared, go for it. the LR section can be imporved in a month. But again, during the test itself, you can suddenly miss -5 on each section, no matter how good you are. Study and take it. I decided i will.

Just my 2 cents. :wink:


I just worked through a section I completely bombed, this worked like a charm. Without knowing which ones I missed, I went back, reworked it, and missed only a couple. Cut my mistakes by 2/3rds.

I feel like I got much more out of my review this way, than I did outlining my mistakes. I did this for RC as well and caught a few mistakes.

Thanks again.


Great, im glad i could help. I hope to do well, i have a serious issue with timing though, i keep getting in LR to # 21 or so and i am running out of time with 5 minutes left.

And btw, as far as LG, even if you missed 1, wait few days and redo the section. I never actually review it, i redo it after i score it. After i get is -0, i can review a little.

RC is a B$%ch :)

swflgirl
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Re: Need LR Help, any advice is appreciated

Postby swflgirl » Tue May 04, 2010 3:30 pm

This has been a helpful thread. I am like the OP only they are doing better than I am. I will try doing the sections twice without scoring and see what happens. I also feel like the more I work on it the worse I am doing which is a frustrating and scary place to be. The flaw questions are killing me for sure and I am not doing that well with MBT either. I hope we can all conquer our demons and move through this to achieve our goals. I am really hoping to get the score I need in June so I can put this test behind me and get on with my life.

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OklahomasOK
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Re: Need LR Help, any advice is appreciated

Postby OklahomasOK » Wed May 05, 2010 5:42 pm

Since starting this thread, I've gotten some very solid advice.

I've gone from missing -7 and -8 per section, to -2 or -4/-5 on my absolute worst section, and I'm seeing very steady improvement. Oddly enough, the better I get at LR, the better my RC scores gets as well.

I found hammering out a specific question type really helps. I spend a good hour or so last night doing absolutely nothing by Flaw questions and talking over my mistakes and a friend of mine. I end up catching a bunch of my errors when I talk about them. Drilling also seems to help me a bunch on time. I was struggling to get in under 35 minutes on LR, now I'm a good 2 to 3 minutes under and have time to go back and check my work.

I still need to review mistakes, but it's such nice to not have 15 or so LR questions to review and only a handful.




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