How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

jagsta
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How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby jagsta » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:46 am

Bad first question to ask a bunch of smart alecks, With a baseline of 138, how long will it reasonably take to begin hitting numbers, let say, in the 70th percentile?

cavebat2000
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby cavebat2000 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:48 am

A while. Plan at least 4 months of steady, hard, and smart study.

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holydonkey
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby holydonkey » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:51 am

jagsta wrote:With a baseline of 138
don't go to law school

dwoof
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby dwoof » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:57 am

I would consider taking a course or paying for a tutor. I think that a couple months of intense study and instruction and you can bring it up considerably.

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jpSartre
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby jpSartre » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:23 am

holydonkey wrote:
jagsta wrote:With a baseline of 138
don't go to law school


Jackass

lsatntr
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby lsatntr » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:27 am

jagsta wrote:Bad first question to ask a bunch of smart alecks, With a baseline of 138, how long will it reasonably take to begin hitting numbers, let say, in the 70th percentile?


If this is your "cold" baseline, it likely meaningless. Get the bibles, the preptests, the superprep book and go through them thoroughly (this might take you anywhere from 2 months to 9 months) THEN take a timed 5-section preptest and report back.

...but hopefully, by that time, you'll have figured it all out on your own. :)

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holydonkey
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby holydonkey » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:29 am

jpSartre wrote:
holydonkey wrote:
jagsta wrote:With a baseline of 138
don't go to law school
Jackass
I prefer donkey, but why argue over nomenclature? :D

tomwatts
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby tomwatts » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:30 pm

You know, 70th percentile is only about a 157-ish score. You're talking about 20 points of score improvement, which is a lot, but not ridiculous. Give yourself a good 3-4 months and work at it as hard as you can. A class/tutor might be useful.

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calicocat
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby calicocat » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:32 pm

jpSartre wrote:
holydonkey wrote:
jagsta wrote:With a baseline of 138
don't go to law school


Jackass

No, that's fair

A 138 doesn't bode well for LS

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Kronk
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby Kronk » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:40 pm

calicocat wrote:
jpSartre wrote:
holydonkey wrote:
jagsta wrote:With a baseline of 138
don't go to law school


Jackass

No, that's fair

A 138 doesn't bode well for LS


But he has ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY EIGHTY FULL POINTS. That's a lot of points.

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Joan Hollaway
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby Joan Hollaway » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:45 pm

20 moar points kronk and you and the OP can be classmates at boalt

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Bert
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby Bert » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:56 pm

dwoof wrote:I would consider taking a course or paying for a tutor. I think that a couple months of intense study and instruction and you can bring it up considerably.


I think a class is in order as well, and I don't understand why you are limiting yourself to 70th percentile. Self-teaching is great, but a class would most likely help you achieve quicker more consistent returns on your studying.

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby KibblesAndVick » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:10 pm

A 138 means you got a raw score around 37 or 38. Just by randomly filling in answers you should get around a 20. That's not very good.

There are two ways to look at this. (1) The test is not at all representative of your abilities. This could mean you have never been able to score highly on standardized tests but have always done well in school (being the complete opposite for most of my life this has always been a mystery to me, but it does happen). Alternatively you might not have been physically prepared. If you were hungover or if you took the test at 4am you might consider retaking it and seeing how you do. Finally, you might have simply made a colossal error on the test. For example, maybe you ran out of time and didn't bother to guess on the questions remaining.

(2) This test accurately measures your abilities on the LSAT. With enough practice and studying you will certainty be able to raise your score. However, this increase will probably not be 20 or 30 points. Not to be an asshole, but if this is honestly the best you can do I think you would be well advised not to attend law school. It would cost you so much money and your job prospects would be so minimal. The cost-benefit analysis is not at all favorable. If you don't get a large scholarship or attend one of the best schools it's not usually a good idea. Hell, even if you get a full ride or attend one of the most elite schools it's usually a horrible idea.

tomwatts
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby tomwatts » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:57 pm

KibblesAndVick wrote:If you don't get a large scholarship or attend one of the best schools it's not usually a good idea. Hell, even if you get a full ride or attend one of the most elite schools it's usually a horrible idea.

Yeah, law school sucks! No one should ever take the LSAT or get a law degree!

...

Uh, so in reality, I think the reason for aiming for a 70th percentile score (around 157-ish) with a 138 diag is that it's realistic. 20 points of improvement is a lot, but it's doable. We talk about people going from 150's to 170's. This is the same, but starting lower. And at a 157, you're not exactly scraping the bottom of the barrel; you can get into some decent schools with that kind of score. Probably not elite, but good.

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby KibblesAndVick » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:13 pm

tomwatts wrote:
KibblesAndVick wrote:If you don't get a large scholarship or attend one of the best schools it's not usually a good idea. Hell, even if you get a full ride or attend one of the most elite schools it's usually a horrible idea.

Yeah, law school sucks! No one should ever take the LSAT or get a law degree!


Of the practicing lawyers I've talked to (around 20 I'd guess, more than just one or two is what I'm getting at) this is the most common response to "Should I go to law school?". Then I try the whole "well yeah .... but what if I get a scholarship to a T-14?" to which the most common response is a slow shaking of the head. I've never met a lawyer who told me law school was a good idea. The best I've found is someone who told me it might not be a bad idea. MIGHT not be a BAD idea... and I got a flipping 179 on the LSAT. If you score a 138 on the real deal you're setting yourself up for disaster.

Having said that I'm moving full speed ahead into the brick wall. If I can justify irrational choices to myself I'm sure OP can too :lol:

jagsta
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby jagsta » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:30 pm

tomwatts wrote:
KibblesAndVick wrote:If you don't get a large scholarship or attend one of the best schools it's not usually a good idea. Hell, even if you get a full ride or attend one of the most elite schools it's usually a horrible idea.

Yeah, law school sucks! No one should ever take the LSAT or get a law degree!

...

Uh, so in reality, I think the reason for aiming for a 70th percentile score (around 157-ish) with a 138 diag is that it's realistic. 20 points of improvement is a lot, but it's doable. We talk about people going from 150's to 170's. This is the same, but starting lower. And at a 157, you're not exactly scraping the bottom of the barrel; you can get into some decent schools with that kind of score. Probably not elite, but good.


Not looking to go to elite schools with a bunch of idealogues, just looking for a solid education without the over inflated price tag. Not trying to be the next Supreme Court justice but would be interested in a prosceutor job in either Fed, State, or County. Thanks for the input, I just looked at an LSAT test for the first time in Feb. so I'm giving myself about 6-8 months for preparation.

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hotdog123
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby hotdog123 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:31 pm

Listen to the people who are cautioning you. They, believe it or not, are actually looking out for your best interests.

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emciosn
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby emciosn » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:37 pm

I do not think that going from a 138 to a 157 is all that unreasonable. Its not like you are going from 155 to 174. the points you have to pick up are "easier" points to get that if you were starting at a higher diagnostic and aiming for a high overall score. Pick up the powerscore books, go through everything and then take another test. Continue to test and drill until you get where you want. Put aside like 6 months or so for steady studying and I think that the upper 150's are definitely in the realm of possibilities for you.

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emciosn
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby emciosn » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:38 pm

Also, with a 157 you can get into some top 100 schools with very good regional reputations. If you really are interested in law school and don't mind going to a regional school I think you could be fine.

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iamtaw
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby iamtaw » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:43 pm

agreed. 70th percentile with that amount of time should be very managable

jagsta
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby jagsta » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:35 pm

emciosn wrote:I do not think that going from a 138 to a 157 is all that unreasonable. Its not like you are going from 155 to 174. the points you have to pick up are "easier" points to get that if you were starting at a higher diagnostic and aiming for a high overall score. Pick up the powerscore books, go through everything and then take another test. Continue to test and drill until you get where you want. Put aside like 6 months or so for steady studying and I think that the upper 150's are definitely in the realm of possibilities for you.


Thanks emciosn, great advice. As a dedicated gym person, it makes alot of sense because I can remember when I first began the weight dropped pretty quick, but then came the famous last 10, and as many know, they can be the most stubborn pounds to lose. Those "easier" points are anagolous to those first few pounds that respond just by doing something other than eating...Anyway, good point.

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yoni45
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby yoni45 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:48 pm

I've had students start out almost 10 points below you and reach around your goal -- it's definitely doable.

That said, it won't be easy by any means, and you shouldn't get complacent at *any* point. As someone noted, once you start getting the hang of the test the first set of points will come pretty easily. At that point, you'll likely be fighting for every point you gain. Prepare yourself for the fact that this will be an uphill battle.

I'd aim for the October test, while starting as soon as possible.

Whatever method you take, take this one piece of advice: Do not burn through material. There's only so much actual LSAT material out there, and much less that's as relevant to today's test. Avoid rushing to just do more and more -- every single thing you do should be thoroughly dissected. You should understand everything you do with every question -- why every correct answer is correct, but also why every incorrect answer is incorrect. At your score level, you should probably be spending more time dissecting questions than actually doing them.

jagsta
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby jagsta » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:03 pm

yoni45 wrote:I've had students start out almost 10 points below you and reach around your goal -- it's definitely doable.

That said, it won't be easy by any means, and you shouldn't get complacent at *any* point. As someone noted, once you start getting the hang of the test the first set of points will come pretty easily. At that point, you'll likely be fighting for every point you gain. Prepare yourself for the fact that this will be an uphill battle.

I'd aim for the October test, while starting as soon as possible.

Whatever method you take, take this one piece of advice: Do not burn through material. There's only so much actual LSAT material out there, and much less that's as relevant to today's test. Avoid rushing to just do more and more -- every single thing you do should be thoroughly dissected. You should understand everything you do with every question -- why every correct answer is correct, but also why every incorrect answer is incorrect. At your score level, you should probably be spending more time dissecting questions than actually doing them.


Thanks for the great advice. Your point is well taken when you state not to burn through the material. Like with many things, we fall into the trap that more means better but doesn't seem to be the case with the LSAT, it has to be methodically taken apart and studied--much of what a lawyer does I suppose.

nStiver
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby nStiver » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:37 pm

holydonkey wrote:
jagsta wrote:With a baseline of 138
don't go to law school


Don't be a jackass

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calicocat
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Re: How Long Does It Take Part? (Part 2)

Postby calicocat » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:39 pm

nStiver wrote:
holydonkey wrote:
jagsta wrote:With a baseline of 138
don't go to law school


Don't be a jackass

that was good advice




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