October 2010 Test Prep

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3|ink
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby 3|ink » Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:38 pm

lastch2 wrote:just took timed PT 27 -2LR -5LG -5RC -4LR...170. i'm assuming this must have been really hard because -15 got me a 166 a few days ago, but i'm too tired to care. i tried doing summaries next to each paragraph on RC and thought it really worked, i felt like i understood the passages much better but still a pretty disappointing RC score. LG almost made me cry in public...i'm becoming worried that in a moment of crisis i'm going to assault the kids playing magic cards, get arrested and never go to law school ultimately leading to a life of crime.

that's it. lsat is officially taking it's toll. there need's to be a crazy face to insert here.


Did you take an experimental?

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lastch2
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby lastch2 » Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:54 pm

yeah, but i took it at the end and sucked pretty bad. it was a RC from one of the early tests. i didn't score it because i didn't bring the book i got it from. probably not a great indicator of a 5 part test

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Anaconda
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby Anaconda » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:14 am

lastch2 wrote:just took timed PT 27 -2LR -5LG -5RC -4LR...170. i'm assuming this must have been really hard because -15 got me a 166 a few days ago, but i'm too tired to care. i tried doing summaries next to each paragraph on RC and thought it really worked, i felt like i understood the passages much better but still a pretty disappointing RC score. LG almost made me cry in public...i'm becoming worried that in a moment of crisis i'm going to assault the kids playing magic cards, get arrested and never go to law school ultimately leading to a life of crime.

that's it. lsat is officially taking it's toll. there need's to be a crazy face to insert here.



Lol, you might be looking for a smiley face though, a 170 is great.

surfermikedude
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby surfermikedude » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:16 am

I must admit I feel a little behind everyone seeing as I am doing PT material in chronological order. Bad idea?

Anyway, took the 2 LR Sections from PT 16:

LR Section 2 -1
24) Flaw. Can someone explain why E is correct and not D?

LR Section 3 -3
17) Paradox. Can someone explain why D is incorrect?
18) Weaken. I see why I got it wrong, but I still don't like the question
24) Weaken, Formal Logic. I just plain don't understand this answer choice. Help!

I feel good that I only missed 4 on this PT but I know I shouldn't let my emotions get in the way. This could easily be a result of seeing old PT material, this ain't my first time at the rodeo. I studied for this bad boy a little over a year ago (not sure if I took this PT though).

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LLB2JD
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby LLB2JD » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:40 am

So I just finished Preptest 25 June 2008, and here is the breakdown

RC -4
LR -5
LG -4
LR -5

Raw Score = 166

I still get confused with the main point questions, and all my misses on the RC are from one passage (Greek Poems). It must be the most boring ever. It was so uninspiring to read.


P.S. I'll be so ecstatic to score a 166 on the actual thing.

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Anaconda
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby Anaconda » Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:03 am

surfermikedude wrote:I must admit I feel a little behind everyone seeing as I am doing PT material in chronological order. Bad idea?

Anyway, took the 2 LR Sections from PT 16:

LR Section 2 -1
24) Flaw. Can someone explain why E is correct and not D?

LR Section 3 -3
17) Paradox. Can someone explain why D is incorrect?
18) Weaken. I see why I got it wrong, but I still don't like the question
24) Weaken, Formal Logic. I just plain don't understand this answer choice. Help!

I feel good that I only missed 4 on this PT but I know I shouldn't let my emotions get in the way. This could easily be a result of seeing old PT material, this ain't my first time at the rodeo. I studied for this bad boy a little over a year ago (not sure if I took this PT though).


Section 2 #24 is tough.

Honestly, I can't even explain why E is correct. All I can do is explain why A-D are clearly wrong, and sometimes that's all you need. :(

Section 4

17 - D is clearly wrong, re-read it again. The paradox is these new vacuums are both quieter and use less electricity than the old vacuums. What do gov't standards about allowing vacuums to use more energy have to do w/ anything? If you were going to be fooled, B would have be the best contender (which was a tricky distinction).

18 - really, really hard. I don't like this one either. C is incorrect since the stim theorizes that some dinosaurs are warm-blooded, that's why it wouldn't be out of the question that dino fossils are next to arctic plant fossils. Also, there's nothing in C that indicates that the dinosaurs froze to death. I fell for C myself. D is right because it has the ability to lead to an alternative explanation - that the dino fossils were found in the arctic not because they were warm-blooded but because they were looking for food and constantly migrated.

24- the answer B popped out at me. You actually don't need to utilize formal logic in this one.
B is correct because what if 40 year olds only give birth to 10 babies, 1 of which is ambidextrous and women under 40 give birth to 500 babies, 2 of which are ambidextrous? Although 10% are ambidextrous born to 40 year olds and less than 1% are born to under 40 year olds, more ambidextrous are still born to the latter.

A - not a circular argument
C - the % isn't needed to make the conclusion - who cares - it wouldn't affect it anyway.
D - it's irrevelant how old a child is before handedness can be determined - out of scope.
E - careful, the stimulus only implies correlation, causation isn't alluded to - this is clearly a trick answer, since you're thrown off by the statement "since other causes are not related to mother's age..."
Last edited by Anaconda on Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hedwig
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby Hedwig » Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:03 am

I thought the Greek poems passage was fun... but I'm an English major/Greek and Roman Studies minor, lol.
HOV wrote:
3|ink wrote:
eit wrote:I just tried to take a full prep test but was rudely interrupted by telephone calls and plans being sped way up. Don't these people know I'm trying to attack the LSAT? Although to give my mom credit, when she phoned and said "hey, what are you up too?" and I said "trying to figure out who can be on the sales team, production team, and management" she understood I was working on the LSAT lol.

Anyways, I got 3/4 of the way through Prep Test #38 and am soooo unimpressed with how I'm doing. I know the score won't even count because I'll have to do the fourth section later (I always count just to "see" what the score would have been if I'd done it altogether, even though I don't take it too seriously as a reflection of my progress) - but man, -3LR, -5LG, -2RC. -5LG! WTF! I also finished at the VERY LAST second haha. I also just re-read that sentence to say "I finished at the very LSAT second" ahaha, oh dear. Poor brain. Although I did finish LR with 15 minutes to spare, and RC with 10 minutes to spare.

I've come to view the RC section as a nice cheerful break between scary LG and frustrating LR.



Good lord. I can see finishing early on LR, but 15 minutes? And I can never finish more than a minute early on RC. I don't know how you do it.

For me, the stress per section hierarchy is LR>RC>LG.


i just can't fathom finishing 15 minutes early...on any section. i just can't. when you approach each question, what exactly is your general technique? what is it about your approach to LR questions that stays the same from question to question? maybe i should try to incorporate that into my approach.

i.e. do you tend to just recognize the right answer choice, pick it, and move on without glancing at the wrong ones? or are you just a fast reader?


When I was on top of my game with LG, I had fun with it and liked to do LG's. Now I've slipped a bit (need to start just re-doing games I've already done just to have games practice every day if I don't want to use up new ones) and I am kind of scared of it. LR is just so hot and cold that I don't really enjoy it, but I don't mind it... marking it/reviewing it is the most annoying part, lol. So I like RC>LR>LG.

For someone else who loved RC, I'm not sure where I'd like it to appear - except I'd like it to follow or precede LG to either raise my confidence beforehand or raise it back up after LG haha.

I would love to trade some of the extra minutes I gain on LR or RC for some extra LG minutes - I'm not a super speed goddess at LG by a longshot. I go right up to the wire, lol.

As for my tactics on LR, well, I don't actually feel a 100% solid in my LR skills so keep that in mind. Anyways. I read the stimulus, then the stem. Sometimes I underline bits of stuff in the stimulus - usually if the section comes after RC, I'll be in an underlining mood and just go for it. Then I read EACH answer choice (I never skip an answer choice in LR/RC) and do my own version of contenders/losers from Powerscore, except I'd rather call it something like Potential vs. Dead Wrong. If the answer is just wrong, I slash out the letter for that answer, and proceed to the next one. If I like an answer, I do a weird little notation beside it (something like < or > or just a little pencil mark). If I like the next answer better and feel its "the one" I guess my pencil mark is a little bigger but that really doesn't make a difference, lol. If I eliminate all answers but one, I do a cursory re-read of that answer and then move on. If I only eliminate a couple answers, I re-read the answers and usually refer back to the stimulus until I pick an answer.

I think I save time in RC by not doing an elaborate notation system or a summary (even just a one word summary) that a lot of people use. But if a notation system/summary or whatever works for you that probably offsets the time gain from not doing it. I underline as I go to make myself slow down while I read, sometimes circle names. I do the same process for potentials/dead wrongs in the answer choices for RC, and usually I'll intuitively go for one answer over another if I'm down to two and I can't decide. I usually refer back to the passage for almost every question unless I'm very sure of the answer.

I think a lot of the reason I can get through LR and RC so quickly is just because I am a very fast reader. I own almost 500 books and have read the majority of them more than once, lol. I burned through Girl with a Dragon Tattoo in 5 hours. Been honing this skill since I was five, it's nice that it's finally paying off. Haha.

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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby HOV » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:25 am

eit wrote:I think a lot of the reason I can get through LR and RC so quickly is just because I am a very fast reader. I own almost 500 books and have read the majority of them more than once, lol. I burned through Girl with a Dragon Tattoo in 5 hours. Been honing this skill since I was five, it's nice that it's finally paying off. Haha.


i thought so. you've got a nice little payout after all these years of reading.

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rbhesser
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby rbhesser » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:15 am

jaydizzle wrote:Damn it all to hell. I got a 153 in December after moderate study. I spent the whole summer studying, and took a PT 46 yesterday. I got a 152!!! I am trying to improve my timing, but no matter what I do I cannot finish. I got through 2 games (all correct answers), 3 RC passages (1 wrong from the ones I did), and most of LR (didn't get to 4 questions per section). I filled in random letters for the questions I did not have time for such as a D all across the board. I can do the problems, but I feel so damn rushed. Why am I such a slow reader. I took a different approach to LR by reading the question first. This week I might try reading the stimulus first like I used to. At least for LR even though I got -8 and -11 if I push I might finish in time. I feel like I have a good grasp on the LSAT because of my studies, but when doing whole tests it is as if I have to wildly guess and rush to finish on time. I don't have time to look at each answer choice in LR and RC.



I would definitely recommend reading the stimulus first ALWAYS. You never save yourself time by reading the questions- you actually end up adding to your time. Read the stimulus, develop a quick way to notate it if necessary, and then move on to the questions. You can refer to your notation to answer the questions and it will save you the time of having to re-read the stimulus if you find yourself doing that.

Also, take as many preptests as possible. You will become so familiar with the format that things will gradually speed up for you. Once you find yourself finishing inside of 35 minutes, consider trying for 30 minutes.

Finally, try to get in the habit of reading everything once and retaining as much information the first time. The more familiar you are with the way the testmakers word things, the easier this will be. It doesn't help you at all if you have to re-read sentences for clarity. Good luck!

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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby jaydizzle » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:02 am

I am going back to reading the stimulus first like you mentioned. Reading the question first doesn't work for me.

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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby lparker » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:17 am

lastch2: How many practice tests are you doing a week? I was at a 165 like a day after your 166 and now you're already at a 170! I'm probably going to cry tears of joy when/if I hit a 170.

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txsunshine
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby txsunshine » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:26 am

I have gotten in the habit of reading the stem first. It just helps guide my reading/understanding when I go to read the stimulus, like I already know that I'm looking for an assumption or a flaw or the chain of logic. When I read the stimulus first, I invariably wind up reading it again after reading the question. But this is just the approach that works best for me, to each his own.

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lastch2
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby lastch2 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:58 am

lparker wrote:lastch2: How many practice tests are you doing a week? I was at a 165 like a day after your 166 and now you're already at a 170! I'm probably going to cry tears of joy when/if I hit a 170.


i'm doing about 2 a week, but i do each one twice..so between that 166 and 170 i did the 166 test untime and and it helped me figure out in a big way some places i was messing up. there's a thread somewhere on here about doing each test twice and i tried it and it's really helped me

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lastch2
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby lastch2 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:01 pm


am060459
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby am060459 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:06 pm

scored a 159 on the june lsat (which is about my average). my highest PT when i was studying for the june lsat was a 161.

started studying for the retake last week. i plan on taking a PT within a week to see how im doing. shooting for a 160+ in october.

kinda sucks cuz i think i peaked around a 159-161.

shannon111
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby shannon111 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:13 pm

lastch2 wrote:
lparker wrote:lastch2: How many practice tests are you doing a week? I was at a 165 like a day after your 166 and now you're already at a 170! I'm probably going to cry tears of joy when/if I hit a 170.


i'm doing about 2 a week, but i do each one twice..so between that 166 and 170 i did the 166 test untime and and it helped me figure out in a big way some places i was messing up. there's a thread somewhere on here about doing each test twice and i tried it and it's really helped me


lastch2: so u take one test timed and take the same test again untimed? I am going to try tat too.
thks for the tip :D

Adu
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby Adu » Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:40 pm

txsunshine wrote:I have gotten in the habit of reading the stem first. It just helps guide my reading/understanding when I go to read the stimulus, like I already know that I'm looking for an assumption or a flaw or the chain of logic. When I read the stimulus first, I invariably wind up reading it again after reading the question. But this is just the approach that works best for me, to each his own.


I thought about doing the same thing I am just worried to get behind as far as time.

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Gemini
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby Gemini » Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:48 pm

For me, the jury is still out on whether reading stem or stimulus is better. Most of the high scorers here seem to read the stimulus first but that's just my impression.

I am beginning to get used to reading stimulus first. Sometimes, of course, I sneak a peak at the stem.

I really don't know which is better. You'll have advocates for both methods, so I guess it's up to you.

What do the rest of you guys do?

Adu
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby Adu » Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:51 pm

Gemini Hopeful wrote:For me, the jury is still out on whether reading stem or stimulus is better. Most of the high scorers here seem to read the stimulus first but that's just my impression.

I am beginning to get used to reading stimulus first. Sometimes, of course, I sneak a peak at the stem.

I really don't know which is better. You'll have advocates for both methods, so I guess it's up to you.

What do the rest of you guys do?

I have the Powerscore Bible and is says to NOT read the stem first that it will NOT help in any way. I do want to peak at it because I feel that it will help me focus more on the stimulus since I'll know what I am looking for lol I can't wait to get the LSAT over with honestly. These threads have been very helpful though; it helps to try different methods...

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3|ink
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby 3|ink » Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:01 pm

Gemini Hopeful wrote:For me, the jury is still out on whether reading stem or stimulus is better. Most of the high scorers here seem to read the stimulus first but that's just my impression.

I am beginning to get used to reading stimulus first. Sometimes, of course, I sneak a peak at the stem.

I really don't know which is better. You'll have advocates for both methods, so I guess it's up to you.

What do the rest of you guys do?


It probably doesn't make a difference.

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yzero1
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby yzero1 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:11 pm

Gemini Hopeful wrote:For me, the jury is still out on whether reading stem or stimulus is better. Most of the high scorers here seem to read the stimulus first but that's just my impression.

I am beginning to get used to reading stimulus first. Sometimes, of course, I sneak a peak at the stem.

I really don't know which is better. You'll have advocates for both methods, so I guess it's up to you.

What do the rest of you guys do?


I've done both and truth be told, it doesn't really matter. Sometimes I alternate during the same section. If you can gain sufficient understanding of the stem + stimulus without re-reading too many times, both approaches will work out to the same results.

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Gemini
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby Gemini » Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:25 pm

Then why do test companies vouch so much for one way or another?

Powerscore says stimulus first, Kaplan says stem. And just because I hate Kaplan and really like Powerscore, I may just end up doing it their way, lol.

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yzero1
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby yzero1 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:31 pm

Yeah I really can't figure out why they're so adamant about their respective approaches either. Powerscore's methods have yet to fail me though, so I would say good choice :)

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lastch2
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby lastch2 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:39 pm

the only reason i trust powerscore is because they went through and figured the seconds you lose and translated that to how many minutes that would mean shaving off your time for other techniques. so if they say stem first is a waste of seconds, i can see that.

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Gemini
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Re: October 2010 Test Prep

Postby Gemini » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:17 pm

It really depends, I think.

If a question stem simply states "This argument assumes" or "Which one of the following is an assumption made by the argument", I think reading the stem is better because you know what you're looking for right away. However, there are often stems like "The argument that _______ makes which one of the following assumptions?" or something similar. If the stimulus talks about two theories and the stem only asks you for an assumption regarding one of them, reading the stimulus first would be better.

This method would of course involve peaking at the stem. Sooner or later, you'll be able to recognize the stem by one quick glance.

Obviously, there's more to this test than assumptions, but it was just easiest to state my case using one example.

Thoughts?




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