Is this a bad sentence or what (PT 10, S1 Q18)?

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chicagobullsfan
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Is this a bad sentence or what (PT 10, S1 Q18)?

Postby chicagobullsfan » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:36 am

I hope it's not against the rules to post a portion of a stimulus that involves the problem I mentioned in the title. If so, please let me know and I'll delete this post.

Here is the sentence in the stimulus of this question that ultimately threw me off and caused me to answer this one incorrectly:

"Everyone, however, sometimes acts in ways that are an inevitable consequence of treatment received as an infant, and infants clearly cannot control, and so are not morally responsible for, the treatment they receive."

Can you say run-on sentence. Ugh. This PT was from 1994. My question is - do they still feature poorly constructed sentences like this anymore? I haven't gotten to any of the newer (39 onwards) PTs yet so I was curious if I can expect more of this.

Or would you disagree with my assessment and say this is actually quite a normal sentence, I just have to get used to more commas.

Thanks.

skip james
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Re: Is this a bad sentence or what (PT 10, S1 Q18)?

Postby skip james » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:38 am

chicagobullsfan wrote:I hope it's not against the rules to post a portion of a stimulus that involves the problem I mentioned in the title. If so, please let me know and I'll delete this post.

Here is the sentence in the stimulus of this question that ultimately threw me off and caused me to answer this one incorrectly:

"Everyone, however, sometimes acts in ways that are an inevitable consequence of treatment received as an infant, and infants clearly cannot control, and so are not morally responsible for, the treatment they receive."

Can you say run-on sentence. Ugh. This PT was from 1994. My question is - do they still feature poorly constructed sentences like this anymore? I haven't gotten to any of the newer (39 onwards) PTs yet so I was curious if I can expect more of this.

Or would you disagree with my assessment and say this is actually quite a normal sentence, I just have to get used to more commas.

Thanks.


Multiple clauses embedded in each other is one of the most primary tools that LSAC uses to obscure the meaning of fairly simple ideas, confusing the average test-taker and lowering their potential score.

tomwatts
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Re: Is this a bad sentence or what (PT 10, S1 Q18)?

Postby tomwatts » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:39 am

I have no problem with this sentence. It is grammatically correct and precise. Further, how would you say it in a different fashion that captures the same meaning?

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chicagobullsfan
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Re: Is this a bad sentence or what (PT 10, S1 Q18)?

Postby chicagobullsfan » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:41 am

skip - figured so. Thanks for the warning.

for what it's worth, if anyone is curious, what I did to answer this wrong was that I somewhat brazenly ignored the comma after the last "for." Had I caught it, I think this would have clued me in to the clause "infants cannot control the treatment they receive." I ended up taking it as "infants cannot control" period, as in they cannot control "acts" referred to at the beginning of the sentence. and if you've seen the problem, then you know which incorrect answer that would have led me to.

silly me.

skip james
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Re: Is this a bad sentence or what (PT 10, S1 Q18)?

Postby skip james » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:50 am

chicagobullsfan wrote:skip - figured so. Thanks for the warning.

for what it's worth, if anyone is curious, what I did to answer this wrong was that I somewhat brazenly ignored the comma after the last "for." Had I caught it, I think this would have clued me in to the clause "infants cannot control the treatment they receive." I ended up taking it as "infants cannot control" period, as in they cannot control "acts" referred to at the beginning of the sentence. and if you've seen the problem, then you know which incorrect answer that would have led me to.

silly me.


i haven't read the question, but i think the thought process you've gone through to see what you did wrong for this question is pretty right-on-track. being mindful of the basic grammatical structure of the sentences to really grasp the meaning of what they're saying is a fricking huge part of dominating the lsat, especially the RC section where run-on clauses are everywhere. it's very easy to lose track of whatever it is that they're trying to express.

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FreeGuy
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Re: Is this a bad sentence or what (PT 10, S1 Q18)?

Postby FreeGuy » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:53 am

Take this:

"Everyone, however, sometimes acts in ways that are an inevitable consequence of treatment received as an infant, and infants clearly cannot control, and so are not morally responsible for, the treatment they receive."



Break it in half to become:


"Everyone, however, sometimes acts in ways that are an inevitable consequence of treatment received as an infant.

Infants clearly cannot control, and so are not morally responsible for, the treatment they receive."


Much easier now.

skip james
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Re: Is this a bad sentence or what (PT 10, S1 Q18)?

Postby skip james » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:54 am

tomwatts wrote:I have no problem with this sentence. It is grammatically correct and precise. Further, how would you say it in a different fashion that captures the same meaning?


Personally, I think it'd be simpler if it was broken off into individual sentences so that each specific idea was expressed independently.

"Everyone, however, sometimes acts in ways that are an inevitable consequence of treatment received as an infant, and infants clearly cannot control, and so are not morally responsible for, the treatment they receive."

could be re-written as:

"Everyone sometimes acts in ways that inevitable consequence of treatment received as an infant."

"Infants cannot control the treatment they receive."

"If one cannot control the treatment they receive, then they cannot be held morally responsible for actions resulting from the treatment that they receive."

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FreeGuy
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Re: Is this a bad sentence or what (PT 10, S1 Q18)?

Postby FreeGuy » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:00 am

skip james wrote:Personally, I think it'd be simpler if it was broken off into individual sentences so that each specific idea was expressed independently.


No doubt about that. However, there's only so much breaking apart one can do in a limited amount of time.

Breaking it in half may be the most efficient solution, striking a balance between time and readability.

skip james
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Re: Is this a bad sentence or what (PT 10, S1 Q18)?

Postby skip james » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:04 am

FreeGuy wrote:
skip james wrote:Personally, I think it'd be simpler if it was broken off into individual sentences so that each specific idea was expressed independently.


No doubt about that. However, there's only so much breaking apart one can do in a limited amount of time.

Breaking it in half may be the most efficient solution, striking a balance between time and readability.


for sure, but when you're dissecting a problem (or doing a test untimed) i think practicing breaking apart each idea will facilitate quicker recognition during a timed test setting.

but that's just how it worked for me, i suppose it could work differently for someone else.

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FreeGuy
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Re: Is this a bad sentence or what (PT 10, S1 Q18)?

Postby FreeGuy » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:06 am

Agreed

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Boba Fett
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Re: Is this a bad sentence or what (PT 10, S1 Q18)?

Postby Boba Fett » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:11 am

"Everyone, however, sometimes acts in ways that are an inevitable consequence of treatment received as an infant; and, as infants clearly cannot control the treatment they receive, they are not morally responsible for said treatment."

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: Is this a bad sentence or what (PT 10, S1 Q18)?

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:15 am

Quit yer complaining. If you think that's poorly written, wait until you start law school.

(hint: there's a subtle reason why the LSAT features sentences that you think are poorly written)

7ED
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Re: Is this a bad sentence or what (PT 10, S1 Q18)?

Postby 7ED » Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:48 pm

+1

Not a run-on, but definitely a terribly written sentence.

Expect these on every practice exam, ecspecially the harder questions that will leave you scratching your head. Its deliberate.

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BigTabacco
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Re: Is this a bad sentence or what (PT 10, S1 Q18)?

Postby BigTabacco » Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:17 am

With newer tests, I found that most logical reasoning stimuli were expressed quite clearly. I found sentences in reading were long, complicated, and purposefully draining.

Late model LR's are easier on the eyes, but not the brain. You follow?




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