How long will it be before my time decreases?

washin34
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How long will it be before my time decreases?

Postby washin34 » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:11 pm

I haven't taken an all out diagnositic since I started studying. I started two weeks late and have had to cram 2 two weeks of material into one calander week. It hasnt' been very hard because I don't have a job. Ive been using the bibles and corresoponding games from "the next 10 ....preptest" to study so far. I know its only been a week but I think I've done about 20-25 logic games and it still takes me friggin 30 minutes to do 1 game! I am getting most of them right it just takes me FOREVER. I'm worried. How long did it take you guys to get your time down to 8:45?

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theavrock
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Re: How long will it be before my time decreases?

Postby theavrock » Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:51 pm

How are doing the games that take you 30 min? Are you simply doing a bunch of hypos and trying to power through each question and get the right answer? If you are doing this you are wasting your time. That was my problem for a while.

The key to success and improvement on LG's is being able to quickly find out how the rules interact with each other and find the inferences that are in the game. Being able to do this has significantly improved my LG performance.

What I have done is make copies of games and do 5-7 per day separating them by type and then drilling them over and over (the Pithypike method) and I have seen massive improvements in my performance doing this within about 4 weeks time.

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: How long will it be before my time decreases?

Postby KibblesAndVick » Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:09 pm

I had different breakthroughs with each "category" of logic games at different times. It took me about a week or so to get proficient at basic linear games. These are the most natural for me. I found them straightforward and easy. It took me more than a month and a half of prep to master grouping games. It seemed like they would never click.

I would suggest you focus on the games by types (like they do in the LG bible) and try to perfect each one individually. At least in my personal experience, there was always a "eureka" moment. Once that happened my times would drop significantly. For this reason, I think it's unwise to worry about how long it takes you on a single game until you've learned the way each type works and the typical tricks they incorporate into them. There are only so many variations they have, and after a while it becomes very very repetitive. Take as long as you need to see through what's really going on. Once you do, you'll feel like Bobby Fischer on crack.

Whatever you do, don't just give up on logic games. They are, by far, the most perfectible section on the LSAT. I think they are a lot like math in that some people have more of a natural propensity for them than others. But, just like math, with enough effort and practice most people can learn how to do it.

tomwatts
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Re: How long will it be before my time decreases?

Postby tomwatts » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:43 pm

My time steadily decreased. I was doing each game in ~20 minutes at first (every step of the process was too slow), but it immediately began decreasing. It's possible that you just need something to click, but it's also possible that you're just doing them wrong and need to review some games before you can do new ones. What took so long in previous games that you can avoid in future games? What shortcuts can you find? These are the questions to be asking as you review.

skip james
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Re: How long will it be before my time decreases?

Postby skip james » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:40 am

tomwatts wrote:My time steadily decreased. I was doing each game in ~20 minutes at first (every step of the process was too slow), but it immediately began decreasing. It's possible that you just need something to click, but it's also possible that you're just doing them wrong and need to review some games before you can do new ones. What took so long in previous games that you can avoid in future games? What shortcuts can you find? These are the questions to be asking as you review.


Yeah my results were similar.

OP, you gotta have patience and persistence. I think my first games section took me between 1.5 hours (I was shooting for perfect accuracy, but fell short even taking that amount of time). I think my timing improved to about 10-15 minutes per game after doing games for about 2 weeks, but I was working solely on games and probably did something like 2 sections of games a day, plus review and re-dos. I don't think I mastered my sense of timing until about a month later, and even then I'd bust on time occasionally. At that point, I had read every games book I could get my hands on, experimented with different set-ups and found myself the best balance of set-ups and strategies between all the prep books at my disposal, discarding strategies I found not to work for me. I think my approach today reflects that I went through that weird and absurdly lengthy process of learning five different ways to do the same game; I've been told my setups look strange yet familiar by mostly everyone (haha), which makes sense since I probably use some aspects of their own games setups but not entirely.

You just gotta keep plugging away at it. The gains are small, so it's best not to worry about hitting all your goals in one day. Work on one thing at a time and work at improving that thing until you're happy with where you are, then move on.

OP, since you sound a bit discouraged, here are my few (..er, all lot more then few, actually) words of encouragement: Success at studying for the LSAT is largely a matter of attitude. Sure.. maybe you don't have what it takes to get a 180, but if you don't persevere and push forward, no matter how slow of a pace you are moving, you won't ever know for sure. There are things you can control and things you can't. The speed of your progress is likely going to fall in the latter category, but persistence falls in the former, and so long as you persevere in making those gains, regardless of the fact that they may be small (and from my experience, for the LSAT they always are), then who knows what's possible for you. I guess you have to sort of believe blindly that you can achieve a score that's absurdly high, even without any real reason to support that belief, so that you keeping pushing at it, lest you fall short what you could have achieved on the LSAT, but didn't.

washin34
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Re: How long will it be before my time decreases?

Postby washin34 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:21 am

Thanks guys.

Alas, I have not had that "eureka " moment where it suddenly clicks. I have been just doing mostly hypos to sort of grind it out. I will take your advice, drilling myself with the same games, and apply it when I go to the library today. I hope I get it soon, because the test is in June.

yung
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Re: How long will it be before my time decreases?

Postby yung » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:22 am

Try to get used to using the methods that are taught in the bible. (I like the blueprint method but bible is similar) no matter how difficult the methods seem to you in the beginning it will definitely help you lower time and increase accuracy.

jamesieee
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Re: How long will it be before my time decreases?

Postby jamesieee » Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:49 pm

yung wrote:Try to get used to using the methods that are taught in the bible. (I like the blueprint method but bible is similar) no matter how difficult the methods seem to you in the beginning it will definitely help you lower time and increase accuracy.


+1. Study the LG Bible until the pages fall off the binding. Learn and practice the methods and mentality until they become second nature. IMO, every word in it is gold. This book singlehandedly elevated LG from being my least favorite section to being by far my best section.

LJackson
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Re: How long will it be before my time decreases?

Postby LJackson » Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:55 pm

skip james wrote:
tomwatts wrote:My time steadily decreased. I was doing each game in ~20 minutes at first (every step of the process was too slow), but it immediately began decreasing. It's possible that you just need something to click, but it's also possible that you're just doing them wrong and need to review some games before you can do new ones. What took so long in previous games that you can avoid in future games? What shortcuts can you find? These are the questions to be asking as you review.


Yeah my results were similar.

OP, you gotta have patience and persistence. I think my first games section took me between 1.5 hours (I was shooting for perfect accuracy, but fell short even taking that amount of time). I think my timing improved to about 10-15 minutes per game after doing games for about 2 weeks, but I was working solely on games and probably did something like 2 sections of games a day, plus review and re-dos. I don't think I mastered my sense of timing until about a month later, and even then I'd bust on time occasionally. At that point, I had read every games book I could get my hands on, experimented with different set-ups and found myself the best balance of set-ups and strategies between all the prep books at my disposal, discarding strategies I found not to work for me. I think my approach today reflects that I went through that weird and absurdly lengthy process of learning five different ways to do the same game; I've been told my setups look strange yet familiar by mostly everyone (haha), which makes sense since I probably use some aspects of their own games setups but not entirely.

You just gotta keep plugging away at it. The gains are small, so it's best not to worry about hitting all your goals in one day. Work on one thing at a time and work at improving that thing until you're happy with where you are, then move on.

OP, since you sound a bit discouraged, here are my few (..er, all lot more then few, actually) words of encouragement: Success at studying for the LSAT is largely a matter of attitude. Sure.. maybe you don't have what it takes to get a 180, but if you don't persevere and push forward, no matter how slow of a pace you are moving, you won't ever know for sure. There are things you can control and things you can't. The speed of your progress is likely going to fall in the latter category, but persistence falls in the former, and so long as you persevere in making those gains, regardless of the fact that they may be small (and from my experience, for the LSAT they always are), then who knows what's possible for you. I guess you have to sort of believe blindly that you can achieve a score that's absurdly high, even without any real reason to support that belief, so that you keeping pushing at it, lest you fall short what you could have achieved on the LSAT, but didn't.


Powerful. OP I'm going through the same thing. I just try to look at each day as a day, each game as a new game, hoping that I am somehow making progress and that soon it will start clicking.

washin34
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Re: How long will it be before my time decreases?

Postby washin34 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:38 pm

I've been focusing on what was said and I'm just wanted to ask you guys if I should just make 3 copies of games on 29-38 and 46-59 and do 5-7 per day until something "clicks?" How often/how many times should I do one game over and over(I do have the categorization of each game so I can focus on one type at a time.) I've discovered that my time issue is associated with my lack of inference making skills. I can draw some inferences but not enough to solve a game in 8 minutes and 45 seconds. How did you reach your eureka moment? Did you drill the same problems into your head and try to understand why each correct answer was correct? How do you find the "keys/secrets" to the game after only looking at it briefly? I know repetition may help , but if you can give me any clues/tricks you may use, I would be very thankful.

I've been told to do the same games over and over until I can do them in nine minutes which seems pretty straight forward, any other suggestions that may help me speed up?

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chicagobullsfan
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Re: How long will it be before my time decreases?

Postby chicagobullsfan » Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:10 pm

^^it sounds more like you are expecting to go through them and then just have it magically click (sorry to sound harsh :oops: ).

You need to first make sure you can master the different types of games untimed. Master meaning, try doing the problems, and then when you think you're done, go back over the explanations and try to understand why you got that problem wrong. Draw out the diagrams used if necessary. Believe it or not, that makes a huge difference and you can apply a style of diagram used in one problem going forward for future problems as well.

Once you've done that, start doing them timed (just see which types take you the longest). Once you've done that, start focusing in only on games of that type.

I did this with Advanced Linear games in general, I was really struggling (primarily with Unbalanced). The other day, I took a portion of an early PT with 2 advanced games and 2 grouping games, finished it in exactly 35 minutes with a -2, and the funny thing is there was one mistake in grouping and one in advanced, and they were silly mistakes. I did get somewhat caught up in time with one of the games, but I found that having sped through some of the other ones allowed me some slack time to concentrate on what I considered to be the harder game.

I would warn, and this is what I'm realizing too, is that you shouldn't also just forget about the other types of games. Tonight I am going to start going back to the other game types (grouping, basic, and pattern) to stay fresh.

Also, if you ever find yourself getting stuck, just start doing hypotheticals/templates. I guarantee you that something will come out of it that will save you time on at least 1-2 other problems for that game, in that you will have scenarios now with which to compare the answers to. Some people might say you're wasting time, but I disagree. If you do this quickly but properly, it will also help you to see the inferences that might be hard to note on their own.

washin34
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Re: How long will it be before my time decreases?

Postby washin34 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:00 pm

Ok, I will continue to do your suggestions guys...Should I go through and master each individual type of game and then work on the timing for that specific type of game? Should I master all games first, and then work on timing for all games? Sorry so many questions, but I have to nail this thing(LSAT).

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tomhobbes
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Re: How long will it be before my time decreases?

Postby tomhobbes » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:02 pm

Your time is already running out.

washin34
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Re: How long will it be before my time decreases?

Postby washin34 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:39 pm

tomhobbes wrote:Your time is already running out.
Do you really think I don't have enough time?

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tomhobbes
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Re: How long will it be before my time decreases?

Postby tomhobbes » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:55 am

washin34 wrote:
tomhobbes wrote:Your time is already running out.
Do you really think I don't have enough time?


No, relax and listen to what everyone else has said.




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