Logic Games Vendetta

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AdmiralNelson
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Logic Games Vendetta

Postby AdmiralNelson » Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:54 pm

Never, ever, ever thought I'd think about the LSAT again, but...
What is the likelihood of a math-averse, LG-hater mastering logic games? I took the September 2009 test, and missed 10. I'm reasonably proud of my overall score, but one aspect of it nags me to this day:

RC: -1 LR: -1 LG: -8

If only I could tighten up my LG the way others on this forum seem to have been able to, I might be a contender at virtually any school, and considering the lukewarm response I've received from schools this cycle, I may actually consider reapplying another year. Do you LG aces have any advice for me? Or is this just a permanent Achilles heel?

Shrimps
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby Shrimps » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:01 pm

I have *roughly* the same problem. My only solution is to do 8 games a day for the next 12 weeks (which obviously entails doing each game 2-3 times), until I get absolutely automatic. Have you read the LGB? Do you have the setup guides for all released logic games? What's your biggest weakness? Speed (mine)? Making good inferences? Something else?

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BigFatPanda
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby BigFatPanda » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:08 pm

There is also a book by PowerScore that had all the game setups for pretests 21-39.

I think, at the end of the day, your mentality of being averse to Logic Game is what really got you. I remember the first lsat i took, i got -10 (i am a engineering major so thats really bad) and i thought to myself, this is the absolute worst part of LSAT career. However, as averse as i am to games, i make it my mission to conquer the games by diving deep into its abyss by taking on all types of abusive game types there are (Especially the 02/96, 02/98, and 02/99 games published by LSAC). By the time i was ready to take the LSAT in December, i was getting -0 to -2 wrongs on the games. Granted, i screwed up on the official test (-4), but i walked out of LSAT knowing i had conquered my worst fear.

Lesson: don't see games as an obstacle but for what it is, they're GAMES to be play around with and master them by playing it as often as you can. After all, one can be a Master only after he/she was once a novice.
Last edited by BigFatPanda on Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

waxecstatic
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby waxecstatic » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Just keep practicing.

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AdmiralNelson
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby AdmiralNelson » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:50 pm

Hmmm, interesting to meet others with the same problem. It's easy to delude oneself into believing "I'm the only one". I worked my way through the LGB and practiced LG almost exclusively in the month leading up to the test. The linguistics (75% of the test) come naturally - they conform to an exact pattern that is inherently logical to me. Counterintuitively, it is the most "pattern-bound" section of the test, LG, that feels chaotic and improvisational.

At the same time, your answers seem to suggest that there is no magic bullet out there, which is unfortunate for a lazy soul like myself. I suppose discipline and practice is the only true answer. Hopefully my cycle will end in a flash of good fortune, and this thread will be for nought. However, I've promised myself that if I have to reapply, I will retake the test and exact harsh vengeance on the LG section.

Thanks people.

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splay
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby splay » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:44 pm

Math makes me crazy and the logic games destroyed me in February. I've started doing the LGB and it has helped soooo much already, and I'm only on chapter 3. I'm actually enjoying doing the games. That's how you have to approach them. Either have fun with LG or it will very likely be your downfall. If things keep going the way they are, I'm hoping to get a -2 or -3 on the LG in June. Fingers crossed.

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theavrock
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby theavrock » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:40 pm

I'll second what Shrimps said. I have been doing the Pithypike method for games for the last month and I can see dramatic improvements (-10 on June 2009). Just doing the games over and over helps to wire your brain that way and it will start to click so that you simply know the answers.

hellokitty
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby hellokitty » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:48 pm

I'm in the same boat sadly. :(

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alicrimson
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby alicrimson » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:06 pm

Same here. Logic games is my worst scoring section. Strangely enough; however, I kind of think they're fun to do. I'm taking a prep course and do inordinate amounts of homework and practice, so I hope its enough to compensate for my shortcomings. Oh well....with practice and focus, I'm sure we'll all be just fine. :D

pattymac
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby pattymac » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:28 am

I'll trade some of that LR knowledge for my LG skills :D. Sometimes I go into some idiot-savant like trance where all the answers just click for me. I'll never forget sitting down on about four different occasions trying to figure out PT 7's 4th game (runners and sponsors). I couldn't even get a started on that stupid game and when i did it timed, I completed it in two minutes. I then went -4 on the section b/c I put zero effort into the voting datacom game.

I don't think I've read a more helpful book ever than the LG bible. LG was the bane of my existence when I started. I never thought I could ever score >-10 on them.

It really is all about practice on them. Practice on the older ones, they're generally harder and more time consuming. If you start wrecking shit on them, you'll be killing them come gameday.

hulahoop
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby hulahoop » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:32 pm

I would give yourself a break, then go through the LG bible again. I took two years off (I know, long break lol) but when I was studying for the first go-round LG was the bane of my existence. It was also what did me in on test day, and is the reason I am now studying for a retake. The first time I did the LG bible I was annoyed with the drills and just generally pissed off with the entire games section, but going through it this time something must have clicked. Just did the first timed LG section I have done in years, finished with 10 mins to spare and -0. That would have been unheard-of for me the last time I was in LSAT studying mode. REALLY READ THE EXPLANATIONS IN THE LG BIBLE!! Even if you miss the inferences when you attempt the game, reading about them and understanding what they are talking about will give you the insight to recognize similiar setups.

Just wanted to let you guys know there is hope. One day it will click. :shock:

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SilverE2
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby SilverE2 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:34 pm

I have absolutely the same problem. I'm a LR monster, okay at reading comp, and AWFUL at logic games. Here was the breakdown:

LR: -2, RC: -3, LG: -7

So like you, I'm not happy with my cycle and am planning a June retake (isn't the feeling that you're going to have to take this test again after a long break so goddamn infuriating?). My plan is just to work through the bible again, I've only been through it once in the beginning of my studies (a few years ago), and I'm basically just going to start from the beginning.

hulahoop
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby hulahoop » Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:05 pm

yes. hate this feeling. finally coming to terms with it tho

r6_philly
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby r6_philly » Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:21 pm

Practice and turning obersvations and learned techniques into instincts is the key. If you want to retake you would need to start working on them constantly, daily, now.

I am tempted to retake too, it is so hard to decide on a 170 I am sure you know. However my task is much harder because I don't know if I can improve on LR/RC. I have no more improvement left on the LG. I wish they made 2 sections of LG. :shock:

Zatarra
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby Zatarra » Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:59 pm

Logic games were my Achilles Heel as well, and had quite a difficult time reigning them in. My problem was extreme variance -- I could easily get -10 on a section, then turn around and get -0 on another (sadly, not as often as I'd have liked!). Ultimately, I decided to start 'playing it safe' giving up a point or two to nail down the section. While this might knock away a perfect section, it does really help if you've got everything else nailed down, and are still having games issues after doing a good amount of prep.

More precisely, my problem seemed to be a psychological one, hitting a tough game or question would really mess up my pacing and slow me down. Since I wasn't overly weak with any particular game type, I decided to stick to a few concrete rules (I'm sure all this stuff is on the forums, this is just what worked for me):

One, if the first game looks like a doozy, quickly tab through the section to gauge game types. Try to tackle a game type that you usually do well. This isn't foolproof, but starting off on the right foot can set you up well. Don't get sidelined by a really tough game right off the bat.

Don't be afraid to skip a question. If you find yourself really struggling on a question, skip it. Yes, you may lose the point, but if you sacrifice time, you'll lose even more. That said, any question you do skip, be sure to strike out any wrong answers you can, or scratch out a very simple diagram to come back to (spend no more than a few seconds on this). If you drop it completely, you'll likely not be able to remember the work you did. Sometimes, after tackling a few more questions in the game, you're in a much better position to swing back around and answer it. Double check those Qs before moving to the next game, if they still look just as impossible, drop em and move on. Maximize those points!

As the time runs thinner, go with your gut. In my case, I'd often spend too much time making sub-diagrams -- I'd get the right answer, but it would take too much time. Trust your original diagram and go with your instincts if you're short on time and still have a few questions. You'll begin to get better at this the more you practice.

Ultimately, this still leaves a lot of variability in performance, but really helped curtail my lowest scoring sections, pulling my lowest scores from -10 to a more reasonable -5 or -4 (while hitting -1 or -2 frequently as well). If you've done a lot of prep, really focus on your test psychology and section approach. If a -0 section is out of the question, work to maximize the points you get, even if that means leaving one or two behind. As everyone else has also said -- practice, practice, practice as well, do as many games as you can, but be sure not to go overboard closer to test day and risk burning out (i.e. DON'T do a full, scored section the night before, on the off chance you do poorly, it'll really hurt your mentality! Instead, just try diagramming a game or two, or doing an easy game to build confidence. You've already done the hard work, now it's about preparing the right frame of mind!)

For what it's worth, I ended up with a 177 on exam day, though due to it being the Feb '10 test, I don't know my breakdown. That said, I'm pretty sure it wasn't a -10 section (I 'skipped' one question on the games)! ;)

pattymac
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby pattymac » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:30 pm

Nice job Zatarra! Just creeped your stats...enjoy HYS lol

fiathebia
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby fiathebia » Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:39 am

hi guys, long time lurker, first post! when you finally start to "get" a particular game type, do you move on completely or do you still go back and practice those games every so often so you don't get rusty?

GRADstudentAF
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby GRADstudentAF » Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:13 pm

I'm currently studying for the September LSAT. I want to buy the LG bible, but what's the difference between one published in 2009, or in 2006. Would it benefit me in anyway to get more than one, or just the latest version. Also, any recommendations on flashcards?

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abbas123
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby abbas123 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:21 pm

you def don't need more than one LG bible. info on different versions: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=111714

the LSAT's not in september. it's in october: http://lsac.org/LSAT/test-dates-us-oct10.asp

google free lsat flashcards and you'll find a bunch.

GRADstudentAF
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby GRADstudentAF » Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:32 pm

abbas123 wrote:you def don't need more than one LG bible. info on different versions: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=111714

the LSAT's not in september. it's in october: http://lsac.org/LSAT/test-dates-us-oct10.asp

google free lsat flashcards and you'll find a bunch.


yeah i know it's october, i'm taking a prep class in september and just keep thinking its at the end. also, i've seen plenty of flashcards from a lot of companies, i was looking for a general consensus on whether they're beneficial or not.

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mikeytwoshoes
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby mikeytwoshoes » Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:41 pm

AdmiralNelson wrote:Never, ever, ever thought I'd think about the LSAT again, but...
What is the likelihood of a math-averse, LG-hater mastering logic games? I took the September 2009 test, and missed 10. I'm reasonably proud of my overall score, but one aspect of it nags me to this day:

RC: -1 LR: -1 LG: -8

If only I could tighten up my LG the way others on this forum seem to have been able to, I might be a contender at virtually any school, and considering the lukewarm response I've received from schools this cycle, I may actually consider reapplying another year. Do you LG aces have any advice for me? Or is this just a permanent Achilles heel?

Instead of simply working through and answering the games, try to learn how LSAC writes the games. Absolutely 0 math is necessary. Pick a game and change the names and the situation (this is the hard part). You need to learn the patterns and how to make deductions. FWIW, this is key in law school as well.

Archo
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby Archo » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:29 am

Try LSAT Logic Games prep book. You also need to get your hands on as many practice tests as you can afford - the newer the better. Also consider hiring an LSAT tutor just to teach you logic games.
Last edited by Archo on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

bp shinners
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Re: Logic Games Vendetta

Postby bp shinners » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:50 am

AdmiralNelson wrote:Counterintuitively, it is the most "pattern-bound" section of the test, LG, that feels chaotic and improvisational.


My recommendation for students who feel this way is to come up with a 'routine'/'checklist' for what you're going to do for each game, type it up, print it out, and do games conforming EXACTLY to that method until it becomes second nature. You shouldn't be improvising based on the game - there should be a list of things that you always do, from start to finish, for (almost) every logic game. It's when students start to think that there's an 'art' to it that they start doing things they shouldn't be. If you always do the exact same steps (with some minor variations based on game TYPE, not game), it will stop feeling chaotic and start feeling routine. That's the first hurdle you need to overcome to get the score you're looking for.




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