First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

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broker02
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First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby broker02 » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:44 pm

I took an old LSAT test from the Princeton Review book and scored a 156 without studying any materials beforehand (I plan on taking the June LSAT). Ironically, I didn't practice or study for the SAT either and got an 1180 and according to the converter found on TLS, I should score a 157 without practice on the LSAT. Is there still time for me to score 170+? I have decent GPA (3.7 LSAC, 4.0 Degree) and good softs so I'm hoping to couple them with a fairly high LSAT. Any thoughts?

Flanker1067
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby Flanker1067 » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:48 pm

Yes. There are plenty of examples of this happening. One guy said his diagnostic was a 143 and ended up with a 170+. Just study well (you can search for posts people have made about good study routines/material)

lakerfanimal
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby lakerfanimal » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:54 pm

If you put in the work, absolutely.

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jerichogringo
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby jerichogringo » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:57 pm

My diagnostic was 151, I scored a 174 on the Dec. LSAT.

cubswin
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby cubswin » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:00 pm

156 is a great diag. I suspect you know this and just want us to shower you with comments about your greatness.

mbv
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby mbv » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:08 pm

i started with 153 and raised to 160 after taking a 3 month LSAT class--SO discouraging. I thought I might have to change my plans to attend LS, but decided to re-take the course with a new teacher and ended up raising my scoore to a 168 (PT averaging 167-170). So my total prep time was ~6 months and my total point increase was 15.

depending on your ambitions for LS, a 168 has served me well so far with a similar GPA. Good luck!

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broker02
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby broker02 » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:28 pm

cubswin wrote:156 is a great diag. I suspect you know this and just want us to shower you with comments about your greatness.


I suspect you're somewhat right. I'm not usually the kind of person who needs encouragement from others to do well, but the law school application/testing process has re-tested every assumption I've ever made about myself. I hear it tends to do that to people. Thanks to those who responded, by the way. I've had advice from several lawyers/judges - they all say to spend the money for the LSAT prep course, I guess I better pony up if I intend to break T14. Is that the consensus here as well?

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BrightLine
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby BrightLine » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:48 pm

broker02 wrote:
cubswin wrote:156 is a great diag. I suspect you know this and just want us to shower you with comments about your greatness.


I suspect you're somewhat right. I'm not usually the kind of person who needs encouragement from others to do well, but the law school application/testing process has re-tested every assumption I've ever made about myself. I hear it tends to do that to people. Thanks to those who responded, by the way. I've had advice from several lawyers/judges - they all say to spend the money for the LSAT prep course, I guess I better pony up if I intend to break T14. Is that the consensus here as well?



Well thats the kind of brutal honesty you only see on the internet.....



I know most people will recommend that you take a course, but personally i regret it. There are no magical tricks that come from a course. Anything that you can learn in a course you can learn from a book. The question, and you have to be honest with yourself, is if you will put in the time without the class.

I am taking Kaplans Lsat extreme and i really regret it. I did 162 on the 1st diagnostic, and have raised my score 7 points since the beginning of February. This may sound like a recommendation for Kaplan but, really I spend most of the in class time bored. I am not pretending that i went up magically as i have been practicing 2-3 hours a day every 6 days a week. This may sound elitist or whatever but I am going to be honest. I am actually annoyed sitting in a room with people who are trying to get a 160. I understand that, obviously, not everybody can score exceptionally well but to AIM so average is just foreign to me. It may or may not bother you, but understand that the speed of these classes is geared to those people.

Bottom line, if you get a 157 cold you are probably smart. If you are also disciplined, avoid the class. Its a waste of time and money.


Note: I can only speak to Kaplan. Maybe Princeton, powerscore or something else could be different
Last edited by BrightLine on Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:50 pm

If you can start with 156 you are smarter than I. 152-->172

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:50 pm

broker02 wrote:
cubswin wrote:156 is a great diag. I suspect you know this and just want us to shower you with comments about your greatness.


I suspect you're somewhat right. I'm not usually the kind of person who needs encouragement from others to do well, but the law school application/testing process has re-tested every assumption I've ever made about myself. I hear it tends to do that to people. Thanks to those who responded, by the way. I've had advice from several lawyers/judges - they all say to spend the money for the LSAT prep course, I guess I better pony up if I intend to break T14. Is that the consensus here as well?


I would say pony up.

cubswin
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby cubswin » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:19 am

broker02 wrote:
cubswin wrote:156 is a great diag. I suspect you know this and just want us to shower you with comments about your greatness.


I suspect you're somewhat right. I'm not usually the kind of person who needs encouragement from others to do well, but the law school application/testing process has re-tested every assumption I've ever made about myself. I hear it tends to do that to people. Thanks to those who responded, by the way. I've had advice from several lawyers/judges - they all say to spend the money for the LSAT prep course, I guess I better pony up if I intend to break T14. Is that the consensus here as well?


Self-prep ftw.

If you really want to go through a test prep company though, you will be better served by a tutor than a class. Most of your classmates will start out in the 130s and 140s, and the instruction will somewhat cater to them.

If you purchase a small amount of tutoring, say 10 hours or less, you'll have access to a high-scorer who can show you the essentials, critique your PTs and provide advice, but you won't have to sit through the hand-holding of a long class that BrightLine seems to be disappointed about.

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:35 am

cubswin wrote:
broker02 wrote:
cubswin wrote:156 is a great diag. I suspect you know this and just want us to shower you with comments about your greatness.


I suspect you're somewhat right. I'm not usually the kind of person who needs encouragement from others to do well, but the law school application/testing process has re-tested every assumption I've ever made about myself. I hear it tends to do that to people. Thanks to those who responded, by the way. I've had advice from several lawyers/judges - they all say to spend the money for the LSAT prep course, I guess I better pony up if I intend to break T14. Is that the consensus here as well?


Self-prep ftw.

If you really want to go through a test prep company though, you will be better served by a tutor than a class. Most of your classmates will start out in the 130s and 140s, and the instruction will somewhat cater to them.

If you purchase a small amount of tutoring, say 10 hours or less, you'll have access to a high-scorer who can show you the essentials, critique your PTs and provide advice, but you won't have to sit through the hand-holding of a long class that BrightLine seems to be disappointed about.


I took a full-length classroom course and in hindsight do not regret my decision AT ALL.

That said, I believe this advice is sound. While I don't doubt I benefited greatly from the experience, if you have the discipline it would be much more cost-effective to get some briefer and more targeted help and complement it with A LOT of self-diagnostics.

honestabe84
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby honestabe84 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:40 am

BrightLine wrote:
broker02 wrote:
cubswin wrote:156 is a great diag. I suspect you know this and just want us to shower you with comments about your greatness.


I suspect you're somewhat right. I'm not usually the kind of person who needs encouragement from others to do well, but the law school application/testing process has re-tested every assumption I've ever made about myself. I hear it tends to do that to people. Thanks to those who responded, by the way. I've had advice from several lawyers/judges - they all say to spend the money for the LSAT prep course, I guess I better pony up if I intend to break T14. Is that the consensus here as well?



Well thats the kind of brutal honesty you only see on the internet.....



I know most people will recommend that you take a course, but personally i regret it. There are no magical tricks that come from a course. Anything that you can learn in a course you can learn from a book. The question, and you have to be honest with yourself, is if you will put in the time without the class.

I am taking Kaplans Lsat extreme and i really regret it. I did 162 on the 1st diagnostic, and have raised my score 7 points since the beginning of February. This may sound like a recommendation for Kaplan but, really I spend most of the in class time bored. I am not pretending that i went up magically as i have been practicing 2-3 hours a day every 6 days a week. This may sound elitist or whatever but I am going to be honest. I am actually annoyed sitting in a room with people who are trying to get a 160. I understand that, obviously, not everybody can score exceptionally well but to AIM so average is just foreign to me. It may or may not bother you, but understand that the speed of these classes is geared to those people.

Bottom line, if you get a 157 cold you are probably smart. If you are also disciplined, avoid the class. Its a waste of time and money.


Note: I can only speak to Kaplan. Maybe Princeton, powerscore or something else could be different


Why do think that. It seems like most people on TLS are completely against taking a class. I think you can score just as high without one if want.

honestabe84
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby honestabe84 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:41 am

jerichogringo wrote:My diagnostic was 151, I scored a 174 on the Dec. LSAT.


Impressive. How did you study?

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quickquestionthanks
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby quickquestionthanks » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:42 am

My friend got a 155 on her diag and got a 170. Now at Stanford.

I got a 155 on my diag, got a 162. We both took classes, but she works WAY harder than I do. Hence being at Stanford with a 170. It's all about how much work you put into it.


I should mention that she took EVERY single LSAT administered after June 1991. If you take a Testmasters class, you will have that option.

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typ3
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby typ3 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:54 am

In my opinion, LSAT scores will generally improve 5 points rather quickly. However, a lot of people hit plateaus in the mid/upper 60's and for some people around 170. Going from 170-175 is only a few points, but it can be weeks of work. However, 155-160 could be done in a few weeks by merely mastering games section or improving on LR.

tomwatts
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby tomwatts » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:49 am

Most classes organize your studying for you. For some, that's the primary benefit. In other cases, especially if you have a really gifted instructor, the class can help you achieve a deeper understanding of the test. Either way, you have to do a LOT of practice on your own (which a course gives you the resources for: virtually all reputable courses give you access to all the released PTs).

I went from a 154 diag to PTing in the high 170's in a couple of months with self-prep (though I didn't take the test then, for complicated reasons — took it later and got a 176 first and 180 later).

As a test prep teacher myself, I'm not sure how much I agree that a 156 is a really high starting score for a class. I get plenty of people who start in the 140's, but I get almost as many in the 150's. I get a handful in the low 160's, and the occasional one in the mid-160's. (There are many in the 130's, too, and the occasional one in the 120's, too, granted.) But I wouldn't look at a 156 first score and say, "Wow, you're doing better than everyone else in the room." The people who are usually like that are our SAT teachers, who usually come in with, like, high 160's and are in the 170's within a couple of weeks. Those people almost never finish the course.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby jawsthegreat » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:58 am

I made a 156 on my diag., studied moderately for a month, then made a 173. So yea it can happen.

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PlugInBaby
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby PlugInBaby » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:46 am

quickquestionthanks wrote:My friend got a 155 on her diag and got a 170. Now at Stanford.

I got a 155 on my diag, got a 162. We both took classes, but she works WAY harder than I do. Hence being at Stanford with a 170. It's all about how much work you put into it.


I should mention that she took EVERY single LSAT administered after June 1991. If you take a Testmasters class, you will have that option.


+1

My cold diagnostic was 155, bought the LSAT super prep and the first 10 prep test book....practiced between 160-169...only got a 161.

I think I could have been a little more hardcore about it. Pending the U-Dub decision I look to push myself through the pithypike program in time for the June LSATs. If I get up to a 165 I would be ecstatic...170+ I would be bouncing off the walls.

In short, there is plenty of hope for the OP and others in similar situations.

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BrightLine
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby BrightLine » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:47 pm

honestabe84 wrote:
BrightLine wrote:
broker02 wrote:
cubswin wrote:156 is a great diag. I suspect you know this and just want us to shower you with comments about your greatness.


I suspect you're somewhat right. I'm not usually the kind of person who needs encouragement from others to do well, but the law school application/testing process has re-tested every assumption I've ever made about myself. I hear it tends to do that to people. Thanks to those who responded, by the way. I've had advice from several lawyers/judges - they all say to spend the money for the LSAT prep course, I guess I better pony up if I intend to break T14. Is that the consensus here as well?



Well thats the kind of brutal honesty you only see on the internet.....



I know most people will recommend that you take a course, but personally i regret it. There are no magical tricks that come from a course. Anything that you can learn in a course you can learn from a book. The question, and you have to be honest with yourself, is if you will put in the time without the class.

I am taking Kaplans Lsat extreme and i really regret it. I did 162 on the 1st diagnostic, and have raised my score 7 points since the beginning of February. This may sound like a recommendation for Kaplan but, really I spend most of the in class time bored. I am not pretending that i went up magically as i have been practicing 2-3 hours a day every 6 days a week. This may sound elitist or whatever but I am going to be honest. I am actually annoyed sitting in a room with people who are trying to get a 160. I understand that, obviously, not everybody can score exceptionally well but to AIM so average is just foreign to me. It may or may not bother you, but understand that the speed of these classes is geared to those people.

Bottom line, if you get a 157 cold you are probably smart. If you are also disciplined, avoid the class. Its a waste of time and money.


Note: I can only speak to Kaplan. Maybe Princeton, powerscore or something else could be different


Why do think that. It seems like most people on TLS are completely against taking a class. I think you can score just as high without one if want.



I am new to TLS, I was speaking of most people in general. But its not completely surprising that the people who seek out a forum such as TLS are more likely to be self motivated and, therefore, by my criteria less likely to benefit from an LSAT class.

CMDantes
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby CMDantes » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:54 pm

I think you should take the class. It's a 1500 dollar investment with the potential for a HUGE return, why not take it?

Plus, if you self-study and score terribly... you won't have to live with thinking, "what if I had taken that class..."

That thought would suck and warrants shelling out the cash for the course. I'm taking TM which starts late March and I've already gone through a lot of the LG bible. It can't hurt.

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BrightLine
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby BrightLine » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:02 pm

CMDantes wrote:I think you should take the class. It's a 1500 dollar investment with the potential for a HUGE return, why not take it?

Plus, if you self-study and score terribly... you won't have to live with thinking, "what if I had taken that class..."

That thought would suck and warrants shelling out the cash for the course. I'm taking TM which starts late March and I've already gone through a lot of the LG bible. It can't hurt.



If the class (in my case 8 hours a week) is not helping, then because of the fact that it is using 8 hours of my time which I could make better use of, it can hurt.

To be clear, i say this now, a quarter of the way through the class. But i took the class under the ame "it cant hurt" rational that you are using.

CMDantes
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby CMDantes » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:11 pm

To be fair, you're taking Kaplan correct? As far as I've seen on this board they're regarded as the worst prep company. I keep hearing mention of them being tailored to getting people who score pretty low into the 160's, which your story substantiates. They actually have separate classes for 'high-scorers' or something which I've heard from a Kaplan rep on this forum. So perhaps some further research on your part would have resulted in a more satisfactory prep-course experience.

Regardless of that, I really do hope you feel like you got your moneys worth by the end of the course. Maybe it will get better.

Either way, I feel like if I hadn't signed up for a course I would regret it if I hit anything below my target score. Even if some of the classes seem like a waste of time (most will probably be useful if only for the practice), the pure volume of preptests/questions by classifications/online help TM gives is worth it to me.

Doodsmack
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby Doodsmack » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:20 pm

145 --> 169, 3 months, 14 preptests, Kaplan class.

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BrightLine
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Re: First LSAT Diagnostic - 156. Any hope for me?

Postby BrightLine » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:22 pm

CMDantes wrote:To be fair, you're taking Kaplan correct? As far as I've seen on this board they're regarded as the worst prep company. I keep hearing mention of them being tailored to getting people who score pretty low into the 160's, which your story substantiates. They actually have separate classes for 'high-scorers' or something which I've heard from a Kaplan rep on this forum. So perhaps some further research on your part would have resulted in a more satisfactory prep-course experience.

Regardless of that, I really do hope you feel like you got your moneys worth by the end of the course. Maybe it will get better.

Either way, I feel like if I hadn't signed up for a course I would regret it if I hit anything below my target score. Even if some of the classes seem like a waste of time (most will probably be useful if only for the practice), the pure volume of preptests/questions by classifications/online help TM gives is worth it to me.



I dispute nothing that you said. I dont say classes are bad. All I am saying is that they can hurt. And for me personally, I believe it is. It may be great for you and the OP.




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