question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

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mayanspacecadet
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby mayanspacecadet » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:20 pm

seanrr wrote:In review of your original post it looks like you may be just considering using it for studying and not on test day. In that case, you may want to review literature on set-based learning, which I believe has been a common study in the sub-field of 'learning' within psychology. Perhaps you could consolidate more information and subject familiarity with longer and more focused study sessions, yet it may be hard to access consolidated material on test day with different internal (i.e. no drug) conditions. Again, I think legal and ethical considerations are paramount to any hypothetical learning and performance benefits and/or drawbacks related to this topic though. Best of luck with the LSAT!


Somebody needs to de-throne themselves from their high horse. It's Adderrall, not heroin. Smoking cigs makes some people focus better, is it unethical for them to smoke while studying?

If you want to take the pills, then do it if you think it helps. I took it a lot in college while writing 15-page Spanish essays and it helped a lot. I was able to access all the information and memories in my brain at the end of the semester and did quite well on the papers.

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Zapatero
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby Zapatero » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:22 pm

phoenix323 wrote:
seanrr wrote:@colemf: Whether AA is best practice is a legitimate question, but being a minority is not an ethical dilemma and does not constitute an illegally-based performance advantage in the same way that taking a performance-enhancing drug in an illegal manner does. That comment was an uncalled for personal attack IMO, and I suspect may point to the fact that you have some of your own ethical challenges to work out regarding the theme of this thread. Ad hominem attacks don't seem particularly enlightening or legitimate to me.


+1

@colemf You take no account that I have an extremely solid application, with a great PS, great LOR, work experience, am a published poet, or any of the myriad things that make me a competitive candidate.

Since the premise of your argument is that because I am an URM I am somehow inherently unqualified and that the sole reason I am being accepted into any law is because of my URM status, your post is NAI.


Having great work experience is unfair to younger applicants still in college. The ethical thing to do would be to decline sending a resume or listing your date of birth.

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Lawquacious
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby Lawquacious » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:22 pm

..
Last edited by Lawquacious on Tue May 25, 2010 4:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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phoenix323
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby phoenix323 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:23 pm

colemf wrote:There is no bigotry here, if i were a minority i would also use it to my advantage as well, but i damn sure wouldn't go around preaching fairness. As to the issue of the comparison between URM status and whether or not to take a drug, we all know being a URM comes with a huge boost in the admission process and you made the conscious effort to check that box knowing full well the ramifications when the fair thing to do, the ethical thing to do, the only thing that would ensure you got into the school you deserve, would be to check the box labeled Decline to Respond. But you didn't do that did you?


viewtopic.php?f=9&t=107777

Now I am completely confused.

colemf
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby colemf » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:24 pm

phoenix323 wrote:
seanrr wrote:@colemf: Whether AA is best practice is a legitimate question, but being a minority is not an ethical dilemma and does not constitute an illegally-based performance advantage in the same way that taking a performance-enhancing drug in an illegal manner does. That comment was an uncalled for personal attack IMO, and I suspect may point to the fact that you have some of your own ethical challenges to work out regarding the theme of this thread. Ad hominem attacks don't seem particularly enlightening or legitimate to me.


+1

@colemf You take no account that I have an extremely solid application, with a great PS, great LOR, work experience, am a published poet, or any of the myriad things that make me a competitive candidate.

Since the premise of your argument is that because I am an URM I am somehow inherently unqualified and that the sole reason I am being accepted into any law is because of my URM status, your post is NAI.


Your right, you maybe a great cadidate, i don't know. Best of luck this cycle.

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phoenix323
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby phoenix323 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:25 pm

Zapatero wrote:
phoenix323 wrote:
seanrr wrote:@colemf: Whether AA is best practice is a legitimate question, but being a minority is not an ethical dilemma and does not constitute an illegally-based performance advantage in the same way that taking a performance-enhancing drug in an illegal manner does. That comment was an uncalled for personal attack IMO, and I suspect may point to the fact that you have some of your own ethical challenges to work out regarding the theme of this thread. Ad hominem attacks don't seem particularly enlightening or legitimate to me.


+1

@colemf You take no account that I have an extremely solid application, with a great PS, great LOR, work experience, am a published poet, or any of the myriad things that make me a competitive candidate.

Since the premise of your argument is that because I am an URM I am somehow inherently unqualified and that the sole reason I am being accepted into any law is because of my URM status, your post is NAI.


Having great work experience is unfair to younger applicants still in college. The ethical thing to do would be to decline sending a resume or listing your date of birth.



I worked while I was in undergrad.

Scurredsitless1
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby Scurredsitless1 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:25 pm

The experience of taking such a high pressure exam on adderall (or any any other strong stimulant) would scare me.

Taking the exam under a different state of mind than I studied for it would scare me.

This seems like a situation that could blow up and have terrible consequences.

As for this being cheating; The rules are the game are clearly defined. Just because it might give someone a higher score does not make it cheating.

colemf
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby colemf » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:26 pm

phoenix323 wrote:
colemf wrote:There is no bigotry here, if i were a minority i would also use it to my advantage as well, but i damn sure wouldn't go around preaching fairness. As to the issue of the comparison between URM status and whether or not to take a drug, we all know being a URM comes with a huge boost in the admission process and you made the conscious effort to check that box knowing full well the ramifications when the fair thing to do, the ethical thing to do, the only thing that would ensure you got into the school you deserve, would be to check the box labeled Decline to Respond. But you didn't do that did you?


viewtopic.php?f=9&t=107777

Now I am completely confused.


Like i said, if i were a URM i would use it to my advantage as well.

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Lawquacious
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby Lawquacious » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:27 pm

...
Last edited by Lawquacious on Tue May 25, 2010 4:11 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Lawquacious
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby Lawquacious » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:31 pm

..
Last edited by Lawquacious on Tue May 25, 2010 4:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

APimpNamedSlickback
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby APimpNamedSlickback » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:33 pm

HOW DID A THREAD ON ADDERALL EVOLVE INTO AN AFFIRMATIVE ACTION THREAD AFTER ONLY ONE PAGE?!?!?!

holy shit, you all really do need to be on that pill

colemf
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby colemf » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:34 pm

I never said what i did was not ethical, my "anger" was directed at the fact that the OP asked for opinions on a subject and no preaching, this was ignored by someone who i thought, and still think, has no ground themselve to stand on.

Scurredsitless1
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby Scurredsitless1 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:35 pm

Seanrr - Who are you to be telling people what is ethical?

And explaining the law?

"Using Adderall without a prescription is in fact as illegal as using heroin" - that statement is simply false.

get off your high horse

Shrimps
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby Shrimps » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:36 pm

First of all, future lawyers: lex iniusta non est lex and liberty is the foundation of this country. Therefore, all drugs are legal. What is illegal is the so-called "war on drugs" our criminal government is involved in. (this conclusion is properly drawn if what is assumed?). If LSAC, a private organization, bans the use of non-prescription drugs before the test (that they own), that is a different matter. Do they?

Second, Adderall may decrease one's creativity. Cramming for a test that requires you to regurgitate huge amounts of memorized information, like college finals (bar exam?) may call for adderall. But LSAT, where a creative insight is often the difference between a mangled and a perfect logic game, the very idea that my thinking may become more rigid and structured would be reason enough to shriek in horror at the mere sight of an Adderall pill.

Remember, LSAT is not a "knowledge" exam, it's an aptitude exam that places a lot of value on insight and unorthodox approaches (especially if you're aiming for the 170's).

Read more on the possible decrease in creative thinking on Adderall if you're concerned.

"Results Adderall affected performance on the convergent tasks only, in one case enhancing it, particularly for lower-performing individuals, and in the other case enhancing it for the lower-performing and impairing it for higher-performing individuals. "(When we enhance cognition with Adderall, do we sacrifice creativity? A preliminary study )

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Zapatero
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby Zapatero » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:37 pm

--ImageRemoved--

colemf
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby colemf » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:38 pm

Can we get back to the topic at hand?
Last edited by colemf on Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lawquacious
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby Lawquacious » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:39 pm

..
Last edited by Lawquacious on Tue May 25, 2010 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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danielle77
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby danielle77 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:40 pm

if you are considering adderall, first make sure you are healthy enough to take it. those types of stimulants can make certain anxiety disorders worse! Also, you may have to pee a lot if you do not take any stimulants on a regular basis. There are side effects of adderall that obviously not everyone feels and often persistent usage will reduce the side effects. If you take it, and get super dry mouth/stomach problems/scary heart beat or whatever, you may be taking too much. I am not a doctor, this is just a suggestion. Consulting a doctor would not be a crazy idea though.

As others have said, try it with a practice test, and see how you feel. If you feel any side effects whatsoever, evaluate whether or not its worth it to keep taking it... And it couldnt help to have a healthy diet with essential fatty acids and all b vitamins to keep your brain and body in good condition. Best of luck to you! Adderall isnt for everyone as you can see by the responses. Ethical or not, just be responsible.

bluepepsi
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby bluepepsi » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:43 pm

Using Adderall without a prescription is illegal. Since when is someone on a high horse for advising someone else to follow the law?

If you use Adderall through undergrad and then for your LSAT, will you need it through all three years of law school as well? I don't know; I guess it's just of my personal opinion that you should be able to focus and control time on your own.

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Knock
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby Knock » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:43 pm

Shrimps wrote:First of all, future lawyers: lex iniusta non est lex and liberty is the foundation of this country. Therefore, all drugs are legal. What is illegal is the so-called "war on drugs" our criminal government is involved in. (this conclusion is properly drawn if what is assumed?). If LSAC, a private organization, bans the use of non-prescription drugs before the test (that they own), that is a different matter. Do they?

Second, Adderall may decrease one's creativity. Cramming for a test that requires you to regurgitate huge amounts of memorized information, like college finals (bar exam?) may call for adderall. But LSAT, where a creative insight is often the difference between a mangled and a perfect logic game, the very idea that my thinking may become more rigid and structured would be reason enough to shriek in horror at the mere sight of an Adderall pill.

Remember, LSAT is not a "knowledge" exam, it's an aptitude exam that places a lot of value on insight and unorthodox approaches (especially if you're aiming for the 170's).

Read more on the possible decrease in creative thinking on Adderall if you're concerned.

"Results Adderall affected performance on the convergent tasks only, in one case enhancing it, particularly for lower-performing individuals, and in the other case enhancing it for the lower-performing and impairing it for higher-performing individuals. "(When we enhance cognition with Adderall, do we sacrifice creativity? A preliminary study )


Great post, some good information.

It would be interesting to see if anyone would be willing to take 6 PT's, 3 without adderrall alternating with 3 with adderrall (PT that have similar curves) and post the resulsts. Someone that has already taken a few practice tests and become pretty consistent. Someone who has gotten to the point where their scores don't have huge fluctuations test to test. Be very scientific about it, and record all relevant information, times, what kind of questions missed so people can analyze the patterns, and see if it really does hamper creativity, and if it does if that negative effect outweighs whatever possible positive effects there could be. Also someone who doesn't take adderrall on a regular basis, but has taken it before, and records dosages and times taking it, taken the test the same time after taking the pill, etc. It would be an interesting experiment to see.
Last edited by Knock on Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RSN_M3
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby RSN_M3 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:43 pm

It's cheating only in the sense that taking the substance without a prescription is illegal. Those of you who are butthurt about others having access to the substance can just as easily see a psycologist and obtain ADHD medications. Everyone in America has difficulty concentrating at one time or another. That by default leads 99% of psychologists to diagonse patients with ADHD.

Is taking Lunesta before the night of the test because you are too anxious to go to sleep cheating as well? If you sleep longer than others who couldn't, you have an unfair advantage come test day.

Those of you seriously considering going to the DR to get Adderrall, rethink it. Good luck getting reasonably priced insurance with ADD, Depression, etc.

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Zapatero
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby Zapatero » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:45 pm

seanrr wrote:
Scurredsitless1 wrote:Seanrr - Who are you to be telling people what is ethical?

And explaining the law?

"Using Adderall without a prescription is in fact as illegal as using heroin" - that statement is simply false.

get off your high horse




... Do you want me to google that for you (re: charge for heroin use vs. charge for use of a controlled substance not prescribed to you)? I'm not giving legal advice, just sharing my opinions. If you don't see an ethical problem with illicit controlled substance use I question your ability to practice law with integrity. But again that is my opinion, not a statement of fact.


Blowjobs were/still are illegal in several states. Are blowjobs unethical? Is not wearing a seatbelt unethical? The mere fact that something is illegal does not necessarily deem it amoral. Some laws are enacted in order to protect people from harming themselves. I'm not arguing that using medicine without a prescription to gain an advantage on a test isn't unethical. I'm simply stating that arguing ethics purely on the grounds of legal status is a flawed strategy.

HBK
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby HBK » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:48 pm

4 years from now:

question about cocaine to bill hours- no preachy answers please

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iYale
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby iYale » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:49 pm

It doesn't work the same for everybody. It wholefully depends on how your brain responds to the medication. Some people experience a great deal of anxiety while under the influence of Adderall causing them to concentrate a bit too much on insubstantial details while others are apt to gain more confidence and develop better strategizing techniques.

CMDantes
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Re: question about adderall to prep - no preachy answers please

Postby CMDantes » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:58 pm

I smell me a racist in this thread.
Last edited by CMDantes on Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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