Multiple Early Decision applications help....

tomwatts
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby tomwatts » Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:01 am

Um, I thought the whole point of non-binding EA was that you didn't have to treat it like ED and apply to only one school.

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bk1
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby bk1 » Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:08 am

tomwatts wrote:Um, I thought the whole point of non-binding EA was that you didn't have to treat it like ED and apply to only one school.


Which is what has me confused about PDaddy's post regarding submitting one non-binding decision. Why does it matter if it is not binding? "The school wants a decision before you accept a seat at another school." Well isn't the answer simply just decline before you put your deposit somewhere else? Or am I missing something?

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PDaddy
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby PDaddy » Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:10 am

legalized wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Vincent Vega wrote:If you're rejected ED somewhere, you're more than welcome to ED elsewhere. It happens all the time.


Not that I don't believe you, but another voice on this would be nice. I am going to email admissions officers and ask if:

a) If I ED to your school and get denied, may I ED to another school?

b) If I have been denied via ED at another school, may I ED to your school?

Will post back when I get answers.


If you ED at a school in October and they reject you in late November, you are free to ED at any school that will still accept your ED app at that time, including UVA and GWU. The key is, you can only do one "Early" (i.e. EA or ED) application at any time.

Any ED application you submit is controlling, meaning the school has the "right of first refusal" or "dibs" on you. If they haven't made a decision on you, you can still put a seat deposit down at another school, but you must withdraw all applications, WL and acceptances if the ED school takes you. If the ED school rolls you over into the regular applicant pool, the school loses the right of first refusal, even if it admits you.

Most EA applications are "non-binding", so there's no right of first refusal. But you should still do just one early app if you do EA b/c the EA school wants a decision from you before you accept a seat at another school. Applying EA and ED at the same time would obviously throw a monkey wrench into your obligation to give the EA school an answer other than "No" if the ED school takes you.

Your promise to an ED school is to attend if admitted, no matter the circumstances.
Your promise to the EA school is to give an answer to them before you take a seat at any other school.


Excellent and clear answer. No one should have questions on the meanings of/differences between EA and ED after this post.


I like the EA concept b/c it allows students to still apply to other schools and compare financial aid offers. Notifying the EA school of your intention is an "ethics" thing. I don't even think most students realize that schools expect that they will at least put a deposit down or withdraw their seat within a short period of time instead of waiting until the last minute. That's why an EA school will write you every day after you're accepted. EA schools want you to tell them your intention asap. But they realize that you want to compare offers. Put it like this. An EA school doesn't really tell you they want your decision asap. They just hound you until you either give it to them or tell them to bug off. It's not written. But do you think there isn't at least a small price to pay for being admitted early?

The main difference between EA and ED is that, once an ED school admits you, game over, but once an EA school admits you, you can still look at other schools. Just expect regular e-mails "encouraging" you to put a deposit down.

There's another thing to remember, a few schools treat EA and ED the same way.

GULC will allow you to apply to its ED program and apply to other schools' EA programs. But most schools discourage this.

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bk1
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby bk1 » Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:14 pm

PDaddy wrote:I like the EA concept b/c it allows students to still apply to other schools and compare financial aid offers. Notifying the EA school of your intention is an "ethics" thing. I don't even think most students realize that schools expect that they will at least put a deposit down or withdraw their seat within a short period of time instead of waiting until the last minute. That's why an EA school will write you every day after you're accepted. EA schools want you to tell them your intention asap. But they realize that you want to compare offers. Put it like this. An EA school doesn't really tell you they want your decision asap. They just hound you until you either give it to them or tell them to bug off. It's not written. But do you think there isn't at least a small price to pay for being admitted early?

The main difference between EA and ED is that, once an ED school admits you, game over, but once an EA school admits you, you can still look at other schools. Just expect regular e-mails "encouraging" you to put a deposit down.

There's another thing to remember, a few schools treat EA and ED the same way.

GULC will allow you to apply to its ED program and apply to other schools' EA programs. But most schools discourage this.


Looking at Cornell's "EA," it seems to merely amount to "if you submit your application by Nov 1, we will give you a decision earlier." To me this doesn't really seem much different than other schools considering all admissions are rolling. How is applying EA any different than submitting a very early app?

I guess the way you put it is that if you apply EA, you should be honor-bound to give them a prompt response even though you have no formal obligation to do so. To that I say, why? While it may be a bit of a grey area, since you are not bound to make a decision you cannot be hurt by waiting. It is not like you are hurting the school to which you applied early, they will find someone to take that spot. The only person you could be hurting is the person who would get your spot if you were to decline, and to me this has nothing to do with EA. Am I looking at this wrong?

legalized
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby legalized » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:25 pm

bk1 wrote:
Looking at Cornell's "EA," it seems to merely amount to "if you submit your application by Nov 1, we will give you a decision earlier." To me this doesn't really seem much different than other schools considering all admissions are rolling. How is applying EA any different than submitting a very early app?

I guess the way you put it is that if you apply EA, you should be honor-bound to give them a prompt response even though you have no formal obligation to do so. To that I say, why? While it may be a bit of a grey area, since you are not bound to make a decision you cannot be hurt by waiting. It is not like you are hurting the school to which you applied early, they will find someone to take that spot. The only person you could be hurting is the person who would get your spot if you were to decline, and to me this has nothing to do with EA. Am I looking at this wrong?


Yes.

Early Action is the name of EA, and usually is used to let you know that they will move on your application as fast and as urgently as Early Decision applications are moved on at other schools (only a few, from my checks so far, do EA AND ED, usually one or the other). BUT their decision is not BINDING on you. You should not be slacking off with your response to their decision any more than you would with an ED just because they were nice enough to not hold you to it. IMO.

It should (in my mind) obviously go without saying that the people who apply EA or ED really want to be at that school over the others, and if they don't have a burning desire to be at that school, should simply apply early, not EA or ED.

You don't HAVE to give a soon response to an EA decision, but as people pointed out (which I didn't know before), once they give you their decision, they pester you for yours. I would think as part of beginning one's legal career, when the authority in question (be it a judge, the supreme court, the bar committee, or the law school that enables you to have a career in front of all the previously mentioned)...you respond ASAP and don't dilly-dally.

I personally am trying to apply ED like THE DAY the window opens to (of course) one school...EA to one other in case my ED says no, and regular (the second the window opens) everywhere else.

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MeechiganBoy
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby MeechiganBoy » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:38 pm

Why the hell would you even do that? IF admitted by more than one you are being a real piece of shit to the school you turn down. And that means you took away an ED spot from a kid that might not get in during the regular cycle.

tomwatts
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby tomwatts » Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:03 pm

MeechiganBoy wrote:Why the hell would you even do that? IF admitted by more than one you are being a real piece of shit to the school you turn down. And that means you took away an ED spot from a kid that might not get in during the regular cycle.

If that was in response to the previous poster, that was a serious RC/conditional statement fail.

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bk1
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:24 pm

MeechiganBoy wrote:Why the hell would you even do that? IF admitted by more than one you are being a real piece of shit to the school you turn down. And that means you took away an ED spot from a kid that might not get in during the regular cycle.


Huh? If you ED'ed to multiple schools at the same time you would most likely have your offer rescinded from all of them. You aren't being a "piece of shit," you're being stupid because you won't be going to any of those schools.

I think it is fairly clear that you cannot have multiple ED apps open at the same time (as they are binding you are screwed if you get in to more than one). The question is whether you can open another ED app after your first one is rejected (or deferred/waitlisted). This applies mostly to UVA because UVA's ED deadline is in March (iirc), well after you will have heard from other schools on your ED app.

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PDaddy
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby PDaddy » Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:29 pm

The EA program is all about money. I don't know if people understand that. You are paying for the security of knowing you have an opportunity to go to a school high on your list if all else fails. In return, the EA school gets deposits from EA applicants even if they decide not to attend. What do they care if you don't come, they got money from you. The fact that their deposit deadline is in April doesn't mean they want you to wait until April to put your money down.

I think some people might question the "wisdom" of any applicant excercizing "good will" on an EA school and giving a decision as early as possible. But look at it from a different angle. If you apply EA to a school, it is a fair assumption that the school is pretty high on your list. Secondly, EA allows students to apply to aother schools without a binding agreement to attend the EA school, mainly so that students can compare financial aid offers.

Let's say a student is admitted EA to Cornell but gets a full ride to Texas or UCLA. Let's say that, after the first year, the student decides that the money saved was not worth it and wants to transfer. Cornell is going to consider your taking the money at another school to be a rational decision. What Cornell will not appreciate is having had to wait for your decision the previous year while it lost other good candidates to its competitors. They don't "blame you" necessarily for what you are doing; you are only playing the game the way it was set up. But it's not exactly going to work in your favor during your transfer application.

This is a highly unlikely scenario, but it can happen. EA schools want you to commit asap, and they assume that you have applied fairly early to all of the schools in your cycle. The moral of the story is this: a student who applies EA/ED should try to apply early to ALL of the schools in his cycle so he can make a solid commitment.

If you still can't make a decision on an EA school in April, the EA adcom will likely see you as an unorganized applicant who only applied EA to get a leg up, not because you were interested in their school more than others. And remember this: all the EA school needs is a deposit. If you skip out later, the school has made its money from you. But they want to gage early what the class looks like, so they know who to admit later.

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bk1
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:50 pm

PDaddy wrote:The moral of the story is this: a student who applies EA/ED should try to apply early to ALL of the schools in his cycle so he can make a solid commitment.


Okay, this makes more sense to me now.

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bk1
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:56 pm

Just got emails back from GULC and Northwestern.

Northwestern: Even if you are denied their ED, you may not apply to another school's binding option. (I assume that this also means if you have been denied another binding option you are not allowed to submit to their binding option.)

GULC: If you are denied their binding ED you may apply to another school's binding option. (This is provided that the new binding option school does not mind you having been denied a previous ED.)

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Vincent Vega
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby Vincent Vega » Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:08 pm

bk1 wrote:Just got emails back from GULC and Northwestern.

Northwestern: Even if you are denied their ED, you may not apply to another school's binding option. (I assume that this also means if you have been denied another binding option you are not allowed to submit to their binding option.)

GULC: If you are denied their binding ED you may apply to another school's binding option. (This is provided that the new binding option school does not mind you having been denied a previous ED.)


I've never heard this said before, and I'm sure it's an anomaly. Additionally, I think hundreds if not thousands of people do differently every year. Are you sure both you and NU knew exactly what you were asking?

ncct07
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby ncct07 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:23 pm

Here is why you don't screw around with ED:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/daninreallife/jd

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bk1
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:25 pm

Vincent Vega wrote:
bk1 wrote:Just got emails back from GULC and Northwestern.

Northwestern: Even if you are denied their ED, you may not apply to another school's binding option. (I assume that this also means if you have been denied another binding option you are not allowed to submit to their binding option.)

GULC: If you are denied their binding ED you may apply to another school's binding option. (This is provided that the new binding option school does not mind you having been denied a previous ED.)


I've never heard this said before, and I'm sure it's an anomaly. Additionally, I think hundreds if not thousands of people do differently every year. Are you sure both you and NU knew exactly what you were asking?


I'll post what I sent and what was sent to me:

Me wrote:I have 3 questions regarding your Early Decision program. They are as follows:
a) If I ED to your school and get denied, may I ED to another school?
b) If I have been denied via ED at another school, may I ED to your school?
c) Do answers to either of these answers change if my ED application does not get in via ED and instead gets waitlisted or moved into the main applicant pool?

Northwestern wrote:You may only apply Early Decision to one law school. However, you can still apply to other schools, you just cannot apply to their Early Decision program.

Me wrote:And just to make sure. This is still true if I have been denied by Northwestern's ED?

Northwestern wrote:You cannot ED to two schools during the same application cycle. If you were to apply to a school for the next fall’s cycle, then you can apply ED to a different school.


It seems to me to be pretty clear by his answer to my followup question. Either he is right about this, or he just missed the part where I said "denied."

09042014
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby 09042014 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:26 pm

ncct07 wrote:Here is why you don't screw around with ED:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/daninreallife/jd


It's fake.

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Vincent Vega
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby Vincent Vega » Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:43 pm

bk1 wrote:
Vincent Vega wrote:
bk1 wrote:Just got emails back from GULC and Northwestern.

Northwestern: Even if you are denied their ED, you may not apply to another school's binding option. (I assume that this also means if you have been denied another binding option you are not allowed to submit to their binding option.)

GULC: If you are denied their binding ED you may apply to another school's binding option. (This is provided that the new binding option school does not mind you having been denied a previous ED.)


I've never heard this said before, and I'm sure it's an anomaly. Additionally, I think hundreds if not thousands of people do differently every year. Are you sure both you and NU knew exactly what you were asking?


I'll post what I sent and what was sent to me:

Me wrote:I have 3 questions regarding your Early Decision program. They are as follows:
a) If I ED to your school and get denied, may I ED to another school?
b) If I have been denied via ED at another school, may I ED to your school?
c) Do answers to either of these answers change if my ED application does not get in via ED and instead gets waitlisted or moved into the main applicant pool?

Northwestern wrote:You may only apply Early Decision to one law school. However, you can still apply to other schools, you just cannot apply to their Early Decision program.

Me wrote:And just to make sure. This is still true if I have been denied by Northwestern's ED?

Northwestern wrote:You cannot ED to two schools during the same application cycle. If you were to apply to a school for the next fall’s cycle, then you can apply ED to a different school.


It seems to me to be pretty clear by his answer to my followup question. Either he is right about this, or he just missed the part where I said "denied."


IDK, but I have heard of many people on here who have not followed these guidelines and they're still ok. This year someone on TLS applied ED to Michigan, got rejected, applied ED to Virginia and got in. So far I don't think this person has seen any repercussions because of it.

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Vincent Vega
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby Vincent Vega » Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:44 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
ncct07 wrote:Here is why you don't screw around with ED:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/daninreallife/jd


It's fake.


Even if it is fake, the scenario is still possible.

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bk1
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:00 pm

Vincent Vega wrote:IDK, but I have heard of many people on here who have not followed these guidelines and they're still ok. This year someone on TLS applied ED to Michigan, got rejected, applied ED to Virginia and got in. So far I don't think this person has seen any repercussions because of it.


Haven't heard from UVA but Michigan gave me the same response as GULC, in that once you're denied they do not care. I assume UVA will most likely say the same. What worries me is that NU is the lone difference.

09042014
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby 09042014 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:25 pm

Vincent Vega wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
ncct07 wrote:Here is why you don't screw around with ED:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/daninreallife/jd


It's fake.


Even if it is fake, the scenario is still possible.


Northwestern did inform the entire T14 when I got accepted via ED.

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bk1
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:05 am

Vincent Vega wrote:IDK, but I have heard of many people on here who have not followed these guidelines and they're still ok. This year someone on TLS applied ED to Michigan, got rejected, applied ED to Virginia and got in. So far I don't think this person has seen any repercussions because of it.


Well, from my emails it is okay with Mich, GULC, and UVA, but not NU. I was wondering if anybody would be willing to send an email to NU just to get a second clarification as they seem to be an anomaly.

03121202698008
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Re: Multiple Early Decision applications help....

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:26 am

bk1 wrote:
Vincent Vega wrote:IDK, but I have heard of many people on here who have not followed these guidelines and they're still ok. This year someone on TLS applied ED to Michigan, got rejected, applied ED to Virginia and got in. So far I don't think this person has seen any repercussions because of it.


Haven't heard from UVA but Michigan gave me the same response as GULC, in that once you're denied they do not care. I assume UVA will most likely say the same. What worries me is that NU is the lone difference.


Considering UVA extended their ED deadlines this year so ED denied people could apply, I doubt they care.




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