Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

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TTTennis
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby TTTennis » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:56 pm

Experimental Section wrote:How hard is it to bring a cell phone into a test site and not have it make a sound? I mean seriously, this is epic fail. Epic, epic fail. Everyone brings their phone. Everyone turns it off and puts it in their pocket during the test because LSAT sites don't give you a place to put the damn things. It's one of those rules that everyone knows, everyone breaks, and that's just how it is. I don't know how much sympathy I can give to someone who decides to remove the cell phone battery from the phone during the test. Wow. Sorry for being so harsh. I hope everything works out for you in the long run, but wow, that was a bad, bad idea.


Sorry, I just implied it. haha, I'm just giving everyone crap, nothing personal. I don't really think any of you are d-bags. But, you guys are a little harsh to the OP; it was an honest mistake. Im sure OP feels bad enough as it is, no need to rub it in.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby Kohinoor » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:59 pm

cdd_04 wrote:you guys are a little harsh

You have been coddled. EmmyD must be returned.

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TTTennis
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby TTTennis » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:01 pm

Experimental Section wrote:... then maybe turning your phone off and keeping it in your pocket is a very rational, responsible idea. And what's with all the name calling?


Maybe not bringing your phone to the test center is a very rational, responsible idea. Of course you would've scored the same with your phone in the pocket. I highly doubt LSAC thinks people are going to cheat with their phones. Probably more concerned that people are going to take pictures of the test or something (could help them decide if they want to cancel? haha).

I call Tweedle Dum! Wait, I'm Tweedle Dum by default...dangit! haha

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TTTennis
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby TTTennis » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:03 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
cdd_04 wrote:you guys are a little harsh

You have been coddled. EmmyD must be returned.


haha, SO far from coddled. And who/what is EmmyD? I keep seeing that pop up and have no idea what it means.

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Cleareyes
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby Cleareyes » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:04 pm

cdd_04 wrote:
Experimental Section wrote:... then maybe turning your phone off and keeping it in your pocket is a very rational, responsible idea. And what's with all the name calling?


Maybe not bringing your phone to the test center is a very rational, responsible idea. Of course you would've scored the same with your phone in the pocket. I highly doubt LSAC thinks people are going to cheat with their phones. Probably more concerned that people are going to take pictures of the test or something (could help them decide if they want to cancel? haha).

I call Tweedle Dum! Wait, I'm Tweedle Dum by default...dangit! haha


People have cheated on tests with indentations on pencils. Cheating with a phone would be remarkably easy in comparison. I think LSAC wants to avoid not just cheating but also disruptions of all kinds. It can be hard to focus on a reading comp section when someone's telephone is blaring "I want your ugly, I want your disease" because they forgot to switch it off.

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TTTennis
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby TTTennis » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:06 pm

Cleareyes wrote:
People have cheated on tests with indentations on pencils. Cheating with a phone would be remarkably easy in comparison. I think LSAC wants to avoid not just cheating but also disruptions of all kinds. It can be hard to focus on a reading comp section when someone's telephone is blaring "I want your ugly, I want your disease" because they forgot to switch it off.


haha, that's quite the cell phone ring. Agreed. Good point. I feel like a failure now.

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby Nom Sawyer » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:07 pm

Cleareyes wrote:
cdd_04 wrote:
Experimental Section wrote:... then maybe turning your phone off and keeping it in your pocket is a very rational, responsible idea. And what's with all the name calling?


Maybe not bringing your phone to the test center is a very rational, responsible idea. Of course you would've scored the same with your phone in the pocket. I highly doubt LSAC thinks people are going to cheat with their phones. Probably more concerned that people are going to take pictures of the test or something (could help them decide if they want to cancel? haha).

I call Tweedle Dum! Wait, I'm Tweedle Dum by default...dangit! haha


People have cheated on tests with indentations on pencils. Cheating with a phone would be remarkably easy in comparison. I think LSAC wants to avoid not just cheating but also disruptions of all kinds. It can be hard to focus on a reading comp section when someone's telephone is blaring "I want your ugly, I want your disease" because they forgot to switch it off.


Awesome use of lady gaga :D

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby Mr. Matlock » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:08 pm

cdd_04 wrote:
Cleareyes wrote:
People have cheated on tests with indentations on pencils. Cheating with a phone would be remarkably easy in comparison. I think LSAC wants to avoid not just cheating but also disruptions of all kinds. It can be hard to focus on a reading comp section when someone's telephone is blaring "I want your ugly, I want your disease" because they forgot to switch it off.


haha, that's quite the cell phone ring. Agreed. Good point. I feel like a failure now.

At least you're not a douche. :wink:
Last edited by Mr. Matlock on Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

angioletto
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby angioletto » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:08 pm

I don't think there is anything you can say to LSAC other than that you made an error in judgement during a time of great stress and that you are sorry. I also agree with those who say that if my child had a life threatening condition I would not have gone to the test period, and that is probably what the folks at LSAC think. They probably hear this excuse over and over - "I brought my phone because my kid is sick." It's the "my dog ate my homework" of the LSAT world.

Telling them that you did not intend to use your phone to cheat is not going to make it OK. Anyone who gets caught is going to say "I wasn't cheating." Think about it - if you are on the East coast and making calls during the LSAT you could very well be calling your friend on the West coast to give him the inside scoop before his test begins.

Good luck. It's a tough break, but I agree that with such a sick child you probably would not have performed to the best of your abilities anyway.

sarahd
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby sarahd » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:17 pm

After reading the thread, I am still inclined to agree with Matlock...as the almost 40 year old mom of 3 kids ages 10 to 15.

If you are a parent you need to prioritize. I don't judge WHAT you make your priority, but as a parent I DO know you can not have it all. If my child were ill enough for me to bring my cell phone for updates on the hour by hour chances of DEATH you would be hard pressed to find me anywhere except at my child's side. I am almost 40...waiting a year for entry won't hurt but not being at my child's side when there is the chance of death is life altering. Perspective.

You chose to attend the test, and chose to break the rules. It doesn't matter why. It doesn't matter if a lot of other people in the room choose to break the rules. It just doesn't matter.

If your child was THAT ill, why on earth were you there if you felt it necessary to remain in contact and break the rules.

If your child was well enough for you to leave their side to attend the test, for you to prioritize a test which can be delayed, then why on earth did you have your phone.

Again I am also a parent and perspective seems to be missing but entitlement seems to be there.

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TTTennis
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby TTTennis » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:23 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:
cdd_04 wrote:
Cleareyes wrote:
People have cheated on tests with indentations on pencils. Cheating with a phone would be remarkably easy in comparison. I think LSAC wants to avoid not just cheating but also disruptions of all kinds. It can be hard to focus on a reading comp section when someone's telephone is blaring "I want your ugly, I want your disease" because they forgot to switch it off.


haha, that's quite the cell phone ring. Agreed. Good point. I feel like a failure now.

At least you're not a douche. :wink:


haha! That made me lol! :lol:

sarahd wrote:[strike]After reading the thread, I am still inclined to agree with Matlock...as the almost 40 year old mom of 3 kids ages 10 to 15.

If you are a parent you need to prioritize. I don't judge WHAT you make your priority, but as a parent I DO know you can not have it all. If my child were ill enough for me to bring my cell phone for updates on the hour by hour chances of DEATH you would be hard pressed to find me anywhere except at my child's side. I am almost 40...waiting a year for entry won't hurt but not being at my child's side when there is the chance of death is life altering. Perspective.

You chose to attend the test, and chose to break the rules. It doesn't matter why. It doesn't matter if a lot of other people in the room choose to break the rules. It just doesn't matter.

If your child was THAT ill, why on earth were you there if you felt it necessary to remain in contact and break the rules.

If your child was well enough for you to leave their side to attend the test, for you to prioritize a test which can be delayed, then why on earth did you have your phone.

Again I am also a parent and perspective seems to be missing but entitlement seems to be there.[/strike] I'm also a douche. Just not as big of a douche as Matlock :P


P.S. I'm KIDDING!

CMDantes
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby CMDantes » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:37 pm

Cleareyes wrote:The main thing I've learned from this thread is that if you want to steal cellphones, breaking into cars near a test center is probably the way to go.


I've also gained a better understanding of the word douchebag.

GoldenBear125
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby GoldenBear125 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:23 am

Mr. Matlock wrote:
Nom Sawyer wrote:
Mr. Matlock wrote:
artlaw wrote:Yes, Albanach, your two-step approach is what I will do. Thank you!

As for Mr. Matlock and Ragged, my son had contracted blood poisoning (as a result of an allergic reaction to fire ant bites) and it was traveling in a red line towards his heart. You may be relieved to know the antibiotics, etc, were able to halt the progress so he can continue his childhood. These things tend to increase or decrease in severity hour-by-hour. Thank you for your indirect concern.

So often in life how we help others does not forge our character, but instead it reveals it.
My best wishes to your present or future children.

Well thank you artlaw.

As a parent of a 5 year old daughter, I can assure you if she had contacted ANYTHING that placed her life at risk, the last thing on my mind would be a 4 hour LSAT exam.

You see, I value my child above all other things. I would never risk the integrity of a testing environment by being so selfish as to place the importance of my life above those people around me. Some special snowflakes, though, figure the rules certainly don't apply to their situations. These people feel entitled to jeopardize the concentration and momentum of the people around them. What is going on in their lives is certainly not more important than yours.

I feel no pity or sorrow for your LSAT situation whatsoever. If pity is to be given, it's to anyone who was disturbed by your actions. I do however, wish your son a full and speedy recovery. But that is an entirely separate issue. I may seem cold and uncaring, but I place value on the integrity of the process and the fairness for ALL of those concerned. We all have to weigh our values and options in life. And now we all know where you placed yours.

Good day to you.


That's harsh Mr. Matlock... I mean yeah, she broke the rules, and sure she definitely deserves the cancellation...

but equating "somebody feels like a special snowflake" with wanting to stay up to date on the life threatening condition of their son? If you are a parent... you should know that emotion overcomes reason sometimes, and especially in cases like that. But anyways if it was me I probably just wouldn't have taken the test if something like this was going on and waited till later.

Good luck on your next test artlaw

Well, we'll agree to disagree. I see this as a black and white issue. I don't see any gray. The rule serves 2 purposes:

1. To prevent the sharing of LSAT information via the cell phone.
2. To ensure an environment free from disruptions.

I could say the law was partly made to protect us from people like the OP. Doesn't work though when people place their own situation above everyone else. As future lawyers, we should value reason and judgment at a very high level. To me, this demonstrates a major fail.

Just one man's opinion.


I agree with Matlock, a lot of people study really hard for the LSAT, and when one point can make or break you if you are borderline, it is incredibly unfair to them to do this. You could of not taken it and written an addendum with proof for law schools about why you couldn't show. Or you could of accepted that there was nothing you could of done from the testing center if your son got worse; what would you have done? Left the test halfway and driven home? The outcome as far as you would of been concerned is thus the same. Except with what you did you may have inadvertently hurt someone's chances of getting into their dream school.

artlaw
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby artlaw » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:09 pm

Wow! I haven't returned to this posting of mine but it's been a very interesting read since then; there were clear lines drawn between "people who are lawyers" and "lawyers who are people." To those who offered advice to the question I posted (people who are lawyers) - many thanks. To those who suffer from an excess of personality (to put it politely) there is nothing anyone can say that they would listen to anyway, so I will simply post a few facts they forgot while typing aspersions, judgments, opinions:

I asked 2 questions: Both could be answered with a "yes" or "no."
    Is writing an appeal letter to LSAC my only option?
    Is this a situation where a "warning" should have been given instead?
I offered "details" only to complement the story "if interested," though in dealing with people I assumed a few opinons.

To clarify, I have absolutely no disagreement with the rules. I violated a rule of the test and the penalties should be harsh; I accept that. In the 10th reply I concurred and corrected the "advice" I was seeking was actually to avoid being branded a "cheater" and what were my options to clarify my LSAC record, NOT to appeal so as to excuse my test and indiscretion. I wrote "My appeal letter is intended to address the topic of cheating rather than rule breaking".

Furthermore I never intended to appeal due to my child's illness. There is nothing I have written to infer this was a position I was interested in or sought to twist to my benefit. [Read the posts] Some of you felt very at ease twisting discovery, especially the self-appointed better lawyers. Arrogance and sarcasm are easily recognized but challenging to defend -- It is difficult to unring a bell.

As for the gravity of disrupting other testers I don't have to prostrate to anyone here on how I felt about disrupting others, but for Board community purposes it should be known I fully understood the severity of such a time intensive test and how ANY distraction (sniffing nose, tapping, ringing phone) is not simply a matter of rule breaking but a selfish disregard for others (regardless of intent.) My guilt at the infraction is mine alone but nothing said here regarding the strength of following the rules could be argued. Again, even though this was not part of my posting I understand the emotions surrounding the sanctity of the test and those who hold the flag highest. If you chose to cast "selfishness" rather than "mistake" it is your prerogative.

In closing, I found it a curiously winding road to how it all ended with a discussion of varying degrees of "douchebagness," but those who feel most comfortable proclaiming aspersions, judgments, or opinions without full knowledge of situations must have great reasons for doing so.

There are real people with real imperfect lives on the other end of discussion boards. "People who are lawyers" can see it. "Lawyers who are people" find the distinction more fuzzy though they will tell you their vision is perfect. Alas, there is nothing anyone can say to them that they would listen to anyway, so I simply posted a few facts in this message.

PS> Further clarification regarding my son's fire ant episode: The red line had ceased earlier in the AM hours (taping the skin showed) and his skin had turned to pink and began to soften around the infection area rather than maintain it's red color and hardness by the morning hours; the infection obviously had broken. I would not have taken the test if it was progressing but mom and I felt it was safe for me to run off and take the test. I called during test break to see how he was doing. Should anything have happened during test Mom would have taken him to hospital and I would have left test center immediately. These things do progress hour-by-hour but we felt confident things were improving. Due to my life the Feb exam was the only chance I had to try for Sept. admission. Not everyone has extra years to try to balance life and get into law school. Sometime you have to force things, though some here (without knowing everything) seem to disagree.

I still hold to my earlier statement: How we help others does not forge our character but instead reveals it.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby Mr. Matlock » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:59 pm

Whatever helps you to sleep at night.

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kittenmittons
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby kittenmittons » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:00 pm

Was it the size of a mason jar?

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby Mr. Matlock » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:12 pm

artlaw wrote:There are real people with real imperfect lives on the other end of discussion boards. "People who are lawyers" can see it. "Lawyers who are people" find the distinction more fuzzy though they will tell you their vision is perfect. Alas, there is nothing anyone can say to them that they would listen to anyway, so I simply posted a few facts in this message.

What a load of fucking shit this is too!! Pot black.... glass houses.... tons of other shit. Sleep well sweetie.

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Unitas
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby Unitas » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:14 pm

Just to let you know you will almost certainly be labeled a misconduct and irregularity, same as cheating. LSAC does not investigate the intent (Section 3. http://www.lsac.org/pdfs/Rules-Miscondu ... arites.pdf); they just report what you did and you cheated "remember intent doesn't matter." HTH.

To answer your two questions:

1. Appeal is your only option. Try to appeal, but doubtful they will care.
2. No warning should have been given.

I wouldn't knowingly break a rule like this. What would you do on the bar? During a trial? Rhetorical questions..... Don't answer they are for points sake.

An addendum may be able to explain the circumstances of the incident, but you will then have to explain it to the bar if labeled a misconduct and irregularity. I would appeal just for appeals sake. This won't ruin your life, nor should it, but you need to be proactive about it.

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im_blue
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby im_blue » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:55 pm

artlaw wrote:Is writing an appeal letter to LSAC my only option?
Is this a situation where a "warning" should have been given instead?


1) Yes, but expect your appeal to be denied. You should also write a brief addendum in your law school applications explaining the situation.
2) No, the proctor followed protocol correctly.

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existenz
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby existenz » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:42 am

At my test center, the proctors were nice older ladies who offered to hold anyone's phone at the front desk during the test. I'm sure in OP's case, they might have allowed him to make a phone call during the break, or they could have called his wife for him to make sure the kid was OK. He didn't have to break the rules in order to know how his kid was doing.

Second, taking the phone apart and placing it on the table is major fail. If I had remembered that I hadn't shut the phone off, I would have excused myself to use the restroom and turned off the phone AFTER I left the room.

Of course, I didn't bring my phone into the test center because the 0.1% chance of getting caught with it is not worth it. I feel bad for OP and think he'll be ok in the end, but clearly he was not exerting good judgment on that day -- as he now understands.

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im_blue
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby im_blue » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:16 am

existenz wrote:At my test center, the proctors were nice older ladies who offered to hold anyone's phone at the front desk during the test. I'm sure in OP's case, they might have allowed him to make a phone call during the break, or they could have called his wife for him to make sure the kid was OK. He didn't have to break the rules in order to know how his kid was doing.

Second, taking the phone apart and placing it on the table is major fail. If I had remembered that I hadn't shut the phone off, I would have excused myself to use the restroom and turned off the phone AFTER I left the room.

Of course, I didn't bring my phone into the test center because the 0.1% chance of getting caught with it is not worth it. I feel bad for OP and think he'll be ok in the end, but clearly he was not exerting good judgment on that day -- as he now understands.


You can't use the restroom except during the break. Once you leave the room, your test is cancelled.

tomwatts
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby tomwatts » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:21 am

im_blue wrote:You can't use the restroom except during the break. Once you leave the room, your test is cancelled.

I don't believe that that is true. No one does, but I'm pretty sure you can go to the restroom during a section. The proctors specifically said that only one male and one female could go at any time, and they weren't referring to the break, because everyone went all at once during the break.

That said, they're not supposed to let you use your phone at all ever under any circumstances during the test or the break.

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Grizz
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby Grizz » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:01 am

im_blue wrote:You can't use the restroom except during the break. Once you leave the room, your test is cancelled.


No.

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TTTennis
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby TTTennis » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:04 am

im_blue wrote:
You can't use the restroom except during the break. Once you leave the room, your test is cancelled.


This is utterly stoooopid and completely wrong.

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im_blue
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Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby im_blue » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:27 am

rad law wrote:
im_blue wrote:You can't use the restroom except during the break. Once you leave the room, your test is cancelled.


No.


Withdrawn. Utter fail on my part.




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