LSAT Preparation

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mikialjan
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LSAT Preparation

Postby mikialjan » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:33 pm

I'm writing the LSAT this December, 2010. I understand it may be too early to enroll in an LSAT classroom prep-course, but will it be a good idea to to the course two times? I was thinking of taking the LSAT preparation course, which lasts 10 weeks, now as well as right before writing the LSAT exam. Will this bring my mark up considerably?

What are the steps I can take starting today to best prepare myself? I don't want to leave any stone unturned and would rather spend whatever money is necessary, and dedicate whatever time is required to maximize my chances of scoring as high as I can.

I know that I should take as many actual practice tests rather than made-up ones, but the problem is everywhere I ask they say their tests are the actual tests! Where can I obtain actual practice tests? Do they differer in price and quality?

Any and all help is much appreciated.

Thanks,

MJ
Toronto, Canada

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thelawguy777
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby thelawguy777 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:10 pm

First off, you have a great attitude!

I don't think it is too early to take a prep course. There are plenty of reviews out there of the various courses/books/etc... so take your pick.

Generally, a course will teach you strategies to take the test. Then, you will practice on old tests. (there are so many old tests that you almost have an unlimited supply, start with the old ones and then do the newer ones as test time approaches) I would recommend getting into it as soon as possible. CONSISTENT PRACTICE is the most important thing. Not taking 5 hrs twice a week, just do an hour a day. Get a good course then practice those strategies for an hour a day over the course of the year. If you do this there is no reason you can't score in the top 5% of the country. But you have to be consistent.

Good luck. I hope the best for you. Don't over do it, just be consistent (slow and steady wins the race).

Again, good luck!

UTexas
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby UTexas » Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:38 pm

Taking the class twice is completely unnecessary, but taking it earlier than the last possible time is a very good idea. I'd probably recommend taking the prep course over the summer and then working and reworking HW and practice tests over the remaining months. Just take good notes in class.

I don't know what your work or school schedule is like, but I don't think studying for nearly a year is necessarily the best way to prepare for the LSAT, either. You need to avoid burnout, and you need to make sure you don't exhaust the supply of previously-unseen study material at an early date. There are only ~6,000 real LSAT questions that you can access. That's a hell of a lot, but it's conceivable that you could work through all of them well in advance of the December 2010 test date.

tomwatts
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby tomwatts » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:52 pm

As an LSAT teacher myself, I've seen students improve from taking a course twice. That's the reason for the guarantees that we (Princeton Review) and Kaplan have. If you're thinking you might need to repeat, make sure you enroll in a course in which you can do so for little extra charge. Before planning to take a course twice, though, take a diagnostic and compare your score to your desired result; if you only need 10 or so points, you can probably do that with a single course if you use the course effectively. (Heck, you may be able to do 15-20 if you use the course effectively, but that's considerably less common.)

Alternatively, take a slow-paced course (meets only twice per week with a test on an occasional third day) and/or study on your own afterwards.

mikialjan wrote:I know that I should take as many actual practice tests rather than made-up ones, but the problem is everywhere I ask they say their tests are the actual tests! Where can I obtain actual practice tests? Do they differer in price and quality?

That's because most people use real tests for most things at this point. If you sign up for a course, you're likely to get access to all of the released tests in existence (e.g. we at Princeton Review give you all of them if you sign up for virtually any of our courses). If you want to get them on your own, there are lots of threads around that talk about sources; Amazon apparently has them at some kind of discount, and there's some company (Cambridge LSAT?) that sells PDFs of them as well. But this is superfluous if you're going to take a reputable class.

EDIT: Oh, I should add that I'd be happy to answer anything you'd like to know about Princeton Review LSAT courses. I'm a teacher, but I'm not getting paid to be here; I just think it's fun to talk about the LSAT. So I don't care about trying to sell you anything.

UTexas
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby UTexas » Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:32 am

tomwatts wrote:As an LSAT teacher myself, I've seen students improve from taking a course twice.


Do you really feel that repeating the course led to a greater improvement than the student could or would have achieved through three months of sustained study after taking it the first time? If a student takes comprehensive notes in class, I don't think there is really a good reason to spend time repeating the course.

tomwatts
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby tomwatts » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:57 am

UTexas wrote:Do you really feel that repeating the course led to a greater improvement than the student could or would have achieved through three months of sustained study after taking it the first time? If a student takes comprehensive notes in class, I don't think there is really a good reason to spend time repeating the course.

At times, I've definitely seen people benefit from doing this. If you get the same teacher, you might pick up on different nuances of the teacher's explanations that you missed the first time, and if you get a different teacher, you might hear some things that you didn't hear before. But probably more importantly, the course goes by pretty quickly, and hearing explanations again, knowing where it's all going, helps put it all together. There are things that we (PR teachers) say in Unit 1 that relate to things in, say, Unit 10, but you don't know that in Unit 1 if you haven't taken the course before. Retakers can make these connections in anticipation; students in the regular course can only make these connections in hindsight. For global learners, this is a big deal, and retaking can really help.

Remember, too, we're talking about people who have already decided that they're not likely to learn well from a book, so simply looking at stuff written on a page is less effective for these students than hearing and participating in a class environment. That's part of the reason that more people than you might think benefit from repeating a course instead of just looking over their notes and doing additional practice.

Still, I can't say with any accuracy how common it is for people to benefit from repeating a course, and it's pretty hard to say what would've happened if they had studied on their own instead for that time (or vice-versa: the ones who studied on their own, how would they have done if they had repeated a course?). I can just say that it has helped some people sometimes. It's not always a waste of time.

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mikialjan
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby mikialjan » Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:31 pm

Thanks everyone for the replies. Wow, I thought I forgot how to find this forum 'til I remembered I was emailed fromhere when I signed up. What a relief.

Looks like I'm going to enroll in the June course (in class) with Princeton Review. Right now I'm look to buy the two most recommended books which are The Powerscore GMAT Verbal Bible and The Powerscore LSAT Logic Games Bible Workbook.

Are there any other books you would recommend?

I also go to school full-time and currently working in the process of dropping my work hours to give more room for preparing for the LSAT. How does anyone manage to focus on high grades in school, read the LSAT books, and go to the LSAT classroom course? Ideas would be appreciated. Sometimes, I think I may nor have enough time to study and prepare and consider writing the LSAT in winter of 2011 (which I'd hate to do), but anything to get excellent preparation for a high score.

Thanks again.

Mikial

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mikialjan
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby mikialjan » Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:32 pm

thelawguy777 wrote:First off, you have a great attitude!

I don't think it is too early to take a prep course. There are plenty of reviews out there of the various courses/books/etc... so take your pick.

Generally, a course will teach you strategies to take the test. Then, you will practice on old tests. (there are so many old tests that you almost have an unlimited supply, start with the old ones and then do the newer ones as test time approaches) I would recommend getting into it as soon as possible. CONSISTENT PRACTICE is the most important thing. Not taking 5 hrs twice a week, just do an hour a day. Get a good course then practice those strategies for an hour a day over the course of the year. If you do this there is no reason you can't score in the top 5% of the country. But you have to be consistent.

Good luck. I hope the best for you. Don't over do it, just be consistent (slow and steady wins the race).

Again, good luck!


Thanks, what do you mean "consistent"?
And would you recommend I start practice tests now or after I read a few books?

tomwatts
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby tomwatts » Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:34 am

mikialjan wrote:The Powerscore GMAT Verbal Bible

Uh, what? You're taking the LSAT, no? A GMAT book will talk about irrelevant things, like Sentence Correction (grammar) and how to deal with a computer-adaptive format. Don't get a GMAT technique book.

If you're taking a class, additional books are probably not necessary. The most important thing is to review your notes from class and keep up with the assigned homework (doing real LSAT questions).

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FreeGuy
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby FreeGuy » Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:37 am

mikialjan wrote:Right now I'm look to buy the two most recommended books which are The Powerscore GMAT Verbal Bible and The Powerscore LSAT Logic Games Bible Workbook.

Are there any other books you would recommend?


Those are NOT the two most recommended books.

What you MEAN is that you want to get the:

Logical Reasoning Bible and the Logic Games Bible.

The Logic Games Bible Workbook is primarily a bunch of problems and explanations. It won't make much sense to you unless you have the Logic Games Bible itself.

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mikialjan
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby mikialjan » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:34 am

FreeGuy wrote:
mikialjan wrote:Right now I'm look to buy the two most recommended books which are The Powerscore GMAT Verbal Bible and The Powerscore LSAT Logic Games Bible Workbook.

Are there any other books you would recommend?


Those are NOT the two most recommended books.

What you MEAN is that you want to get the:

Logical Reasoning Bible and the Logic Games Bible.

The Logic Games Bible Workbook is primarily a bunch of problems and explanations. It won't make much sense to you unless you have the Logic Games Bible itself.


Thank you, you're right.

Any ideas on how to go about taking an LSAT diagnostic test so that I know what my weaknesses are? I'm in Toronto, Canada if that helps.

am060459
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby am060459 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:37 am

mikialjan wrote:Thanks everyone for the replies. Wow, I thought I forgot how to find this forum 'til I remembered I was emailed fromhere when I signed up. What a relief.

Looks like I'm going to enroll in the June course (in class) with Princeton Review. Right now I'm look to buy the two most recommended books which are The Powerscore GMAT Verbal Bible and The Powerscore LSAT Logic Games Bible Workbook.

Are there any other books you would recommend?

I also go to school full-time and currently working in the process of dropping my work hours to give more room for preparing for the LSAT. How does anyone manage to focus on high grades in school, read the LSAT books, and go to the LSAT classroom course? Ideas would be appreciated. Sometimes, I think I may nor have enough time to study and prepare and consider writing the LSAT in winter of 2011 (which I'd hate to do), but anything to get excellent preparation for a high score.

Thanks again.

Mikial


are there other prep courses besides Princeton Review in Toronto, Canada?

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mikialjan
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby mikialjan » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:24 am

am060459 wrote:
mikialjan wrote:Thanks everyone for the replies. Wow, I thought I forgot how to find this forum 'til I remembered I was emailed fromhere when I signed up. What a relief.

Looks like I'm going to enroll in the June course (in class) with Princeton Review. Right now I'm look to buy the two most recommended books which are The Powerscore GMAT Verbal Bible and The Powerscore LSAT Logic Games Bible Workbook.

Are there any other books you would recommend?

I also go to school full-time and currently working in the process of dropping my work hours to give more room for preparing for the LSAT. How does anyone manage to focus on high grades in school, read the LSAT books, and go to the LSAT classroom course? Ideas would be appreciated. Sometimes, I think I may nor have enough time to study and prepare and consider writing the LSAT in winter of 2011 (which I'd hate to do), but anything to get excellent preparation for a high score.

Thanks again.

Mikial


are there other prep courses besides Princeton Review in Toronto, Canada?


Yes there are. Why?

I was just going over a practice test I found online. It sais you should complete the first 23 questions in 35 minutes. When I completed the first 10 questions 45 minutes had already gone by (all correct). Is this bad? Am I doing something wrong here? I mean is this how everyone was on their first try? :(

tomwatts
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby tomwatts » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:33 am

mikialjan wrote:I was just going over a practice test I found online. It sais you should complete the first 23 questions in 35 minutes. When I completed the first 10 questions 45 minutes had already gone by (all correct). Is this bad? Am I doing something wrong here? I mean is this how everyone was on their first try? :(

It's pretty typical to be very slow at first. If you get the questions right, though, you're doing something right. My usual recommendation to my students is to spend roughly the first half of the course just practicing getting questions right and then in the second half work on going fast enough to finish in the time allotted.

Uh, in the full-length (Hyperlearning) course, not in the abbreviated (Accelerated) course. In the latter, you pretty much have to go full-speed from the beginning.

am060459
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby am060459 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:35 am

mikialjan wrote:
am060459 wrote:
mikialjan wrote:Thanks everyone for the replies. Wow, I thought I forgot how to find this forum 'til I remembered I was emailed fromhere when I signed up. What a relief.

Looks like I'm going to enroll in the June course (in class) with Princeton Review. Right now I'm look to buy the two most recommended books which are The Powerscore GMAT Verbal Bible and The Powerscore LSAT Logic Games Bible Workbook.

Are there any other books you would recommend?

I also go to school full-time and currently working in the process of dropping my work hours to give more room for preparing for the LSAT. How does anyone manage to focus on high grades in school, read the LSAT books, and go to the LSAT classroom course? Ideas would be appreciated. Sometimes, I think I may nor have enough time to study and prepare and consider writing the LSAT in winter of 2011 (which I'd hate to do), but anything to get excellent preparation for a high score.

Thanks again.

Mikial


are there other prep courses besides Princeton Review in Toronto, Canada?


Yes there are. Why?

I was just going over a practice test I found online. It sais you should complete the first 23 questions in 35 minutes. When I completed the first 10 questions 45 minutes had already gone by (all correct). Is this bad? Am I doing something wrong here? I mean is this how everyone was on their first try? :(


wat do they have? kaplan?

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BigA
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby BigA » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:54 am

mikialjan wrote:
I was just going over a practice test I found online. It sais you should complete the first 23 questions in 35 minutes. When I completed the first 10 questions 45 minutes had already gone by (all correct). Is this bad? Am I doing something wrong here? I mean is this how everyone was on their first try? :(


Of course you're doing something wrong. What do you think all the freakin study material is for :mrgreen:

I can't speak for everyone, but yeah that's about how bad I am. A lot of people speak of vast improvement after going through the LG Bible. I'm still waiting for that to kick in. My last PT was 20 + on the other three sections; still single digits on games:oops:

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mikialjan
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby mikialjan » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:55 am

tomwatts wrote:
mikialjan wrote:I was just going over a practice test I found online. It sais you should complete the first 23 questions in 35 minutes. When I completed the first 10 questions 45 minutes had already gone by (all correct). Is this bad? Am I doing something wrong here? I mean is this how everyone was on their first try? :(

It's pretty typical to be very slow at first. If you get the questions right, though, you're doing something right. My usual recommendation to my students is to spend roughly the first half of the course just practicing getting questions right and then in the second half work on going fast enough to finish in the time allotted.

Uh, in the full-length (Hyperlearning) course, not in the abbreviated (Accelerated) course. In the latter, you pretty much have to go full-speed from the beginning.


Is there an advantage of one type of course over the other? I was informed that hyperlearning was the way to go.

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mikialjan
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby mikialjan » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:56 am

am060459 wrote:
mikialjan wrote:
am060459 wrote:
mikialjan wrote:Thanks everyone for the replies. Wow, I thought I forgot how to find this forum 'til I remembered I was emailed fromhere when I signed up. What a relief.

Looks like I'm going to enroll in the June course (in class) with Princeton Review. Right now I'm look to buy the two most recommended books which are The Powerscore GMAT Verbal Bible and The Powerscore LSAT Logic Games Bible Workbook.

Are there any other books you would recommend?

I also go to school full-time and currently working in the process of dropping my work hours to give more room for preparing for the LSAT. How does anyone manage to focus on high grades in school, read the LSAT books, and go to the LSAT classroom course? Ideas would be appreciated. Sometimes, I think I may nor have enough time to study and prepare and consider writing the LSAT in winter of 2011 (which I'd hate to do), but anything to get excellent preparation for a high score.

Thanks again.

Mikial


are there other prep courses besides Princeton Review in Toronto, Canada?


Yes there are. Why?

I was just going over a practice test I found online. It sais you should complete the first 23 questions in 35 minutes. When I completed the first 10 questions 45 minutes had already gone by (all correct). Is this bad? Am I doing something wrong here? I mean is this how everyone was on their first try? :(


wat do they have? kaplan?



Yes we have Kaplan. I think we have everything the US has.

am060459
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Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:14 am

Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby am060459 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:57 am

mikialjan wrote:
tomwatts wrote:
mikialjan wrote:I was just going over a practice test I found online. It sais you should complete the first 23 questions in 35 minutes. When I completed the first 10 questions 45 minutes had already gone by (all correct). Is this bad? Am I doing something wrong here? I mean is this how everyone was on their first try? :(

It's pretty typical to be very slow at first. If you get the questions right, though, you're doing something right. My usual recommendation to my students is to spend roughly the first half of the course just practicing getting questions right and then in the second half work on going fast enough to finish in the time allotted.

Uh, in the full-length (Hyperlearning) course, not in the abbreviated (Accelerated) course. In the latter, you pretty much have to go full-speed from the beginning.


Is there an advantage of one type of course over the other? I was informed that hyperlearning was the way to go.


yes there is. list the name of the other prep companies that are available to u.

am060459
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby am060459 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:57 am

so u have testmasters, powerscore and blueprint?

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mikialjan
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby mikialjan » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:58 am

BigA wrote:
mikialjan wrote:
I was just going over a practice test I found online. It sais you should complete the first 23 questions in 35 minutes. When I completed the first 10 questions 45 minutes had already gone by (all correct). Is this bad? Am I doing something wrong here? I mean is this how everyone was on their first try? :(


Of course you're doing something wrong. What do you think all the freakin study material is for :mrgreen:

I can't speak for everyone, but yeah that's about how bad I am. A lot of people speak of vast improvement after going through the LG Bible. I'm still waiting for that to kick in. My last PT was 20 + on the other three sections; still single digits on games:oops:


:D Indeed lol

How long have you been studying for and what kind of improvements have you made so far? Did you too start out just as bad....or you're still just as bad? :roll:

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mikialjan
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby mikialjan » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:01 am

am060459 wrote:so u have testmasters, powerscore and blueprint?


Testmasters yes, the other 2 I can't say for sure. Why do you ask?

am060459
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby am060459 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:02 am

take testmasters. its superior to any other prep course.

edit: just to verify that we're talking about the same testmasters. http://www.testmasters.net/

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mikialjan
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby mikialjan » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:10 am

am060459 wrote:take testmasters. its superior to any other prep course.

edit: just to verify that we're talking about the same testmasters. http://www.testmasters.net/


Thanks for the link. Yeh, that's the one. You really think it's superior to the others? Did you take it? If so, how were you with taking the test prior to starting and how much did you improve upon completion of the course?

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BigA
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Re: LSAT Preparation

Postby BigA » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:20 am

mikialjan wrote: :D Indeed lol

How long have you been studying for and what kind of improvements have you made so far? Did you too start out just as bad....or you're still just as bad? :roll:


Well, i did a couple PTs before reading the Bibles, and three since. And I'm sorry to say I haven't improved any on games... maybe a point. I'll just keep trying to use the techniques in the book and try to get faster at making inferences. Fortunately, I'm almost where I hoped to be already in the other three sections (though I could always get better). You just hear a lot that games are by far the easiest section to improve on and people see their games shoot up as their working through the LGB. Unfortunately it doesnt happen that way for everyone. maybe it will for you. If I don't get better I suppose I'll have to do something drastic like get a tudor or take one of them classes you guys are talking about




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