PT 13 3rd game...ridiculously difficult?

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PT 13 3rd game...ridiculously difficult?

Postby theZeigs » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:36 pm

Per the it just me, or is the third game on practice test 13 (questions 12-17) insanely difficult? I just did it twice in a row, taking me 21 and 16 minutes respectively. I think it's a problem with having to choose 6 out of 8 things to put into slots, and the conditionals are really tough. I can't imagine having to do a problem like this on the real thing.

Maybe my setup is wrong: I set it up as the following:


1 2 3
___ ____ ___
___ ____ ___ -S -W
-O -O

O/L , L/O (antiblock)
P/L, L/P (antiblock)

P (1 or 2) --> HF or FH block (2 or 3)
-H or -F (2 or 3) --> -P (1 or 2)

Question 12 was simply applying the rules one at a time, no problem, but the rest were all "if xyz happens..." making each problem a new diagram. With so many variables to juggle, it took so long to do each problem, and no problem helped me with any other.

Anyone agree with me on this? Would you diagram differently? Am I missing easy inferences? I got it all right, so I ended up getting inferences, but the inferences were painstaking...almost had to make several diagrams per question.

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Re: PT 13 3rd game...ridiculously difficult?

Postby worldwithoutend » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:52 pm

It looks like you've got it all right (I think you meant to put the second ~O under the slot for day 3, though).

The real trick to this one is paying attention to the two classes that are NOT scheduled. Because of the restrictions on the elements, you can usually use that information to figure out what must be scheduled, and where it must be placed. P is heavily restricted, as are S, W, and O.

For example, in question 16, they tell you the two variables that are excluded, which means that every other variable MUST be included. You immediately know that O has got to be on day 2, and that S and W have to take up two of the three morning slots. From that, you can infer that P is on the afternoon of day 3. That only leaves day 1 for L, which can't be paired with either O or P.

If you keep eliminating the answers that don't work, you get there. You don't have to fill in the diagram completely for each question, but it definitely helps to draw one.

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Re: PT 13 3rd game...ridiculously difficult?

Postby pattymac » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:46 pm

This game is in the LGB (I have the 2009 version) and its broken down quite nicely.

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Re: PT 13 3rd game...ridiculously difficult?

Postby chewdak » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:19 pm

I just redid this game, it is not exceedingly difficult.
Just like worldwithoutend said, the trick is to reduce the number of variables.
For the diagram, I made do with one line, ___!_______!______!___, with verticals signifying each noon, and I drew another line for each question below it.

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Re: PT 13 3rd game...ridiculously difficult?

Postby FuManChusco » Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:07 am

Not to be arrogant, but I found this game fairly easy. Worldwithoutend describes it nicely. This game has more to do with what variables cannot be used. Q13 is solved using the not laws they have given and process of elimination reveals the answer quite quickly. Q14 forces FNP into the afternoon slots because of the O S W not laws. The only viable answer is S as W is not a choice. Q15 is extremely simple due to the LP anti-block and the P 1/2 law concerning the FH block. Q16 forces O into day 2 and P into day 3. L must be used and the 2 anti-blocks with OP reveals the answer. Q17 eliminates SW as possibilities forcing OPN into the afternoon. O must be day 2, P must be day 3 because there can be no FH block, forcing N into day 1 as well as L, which can't be with O or P. F H can then be placed into day 2 and 3 in whichever order, but only one viable answer remains once you have placed the other 4. Hope this helps and isn't too confusing.

You say you had to draw a new diagram for every question, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Draw them quickly, just 6 lines, 3 on the bottom and 3 on top and quickly place the variables given in the question. Once a few variables are visualized, the not laws and anti-blocks make the answers somewhat obvious in my opinion.

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Re: PT 13 3rd game...ridiculously difficult?

Postby theZeigs » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:06 am

I wonder if it was just me the day I did it. I actually found all of the games on that PT fairly difficult, none did I complete in less than 12 minutes. Although, my record for completing any game 100% is 5min and I only did that one time.

I found the game in the LRB and I had previously done it while working through the bible in 13 min. Obv. I have to do better than that.

Thanks for everyones help. When I come back to redo this game in a few weeks (I am working through all the games) I will repost here and update everyone.


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