LSAT and English as a second language

frenchlaw
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LSAT and English as a second language

Postby frenchlaw » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:17 pm

I was wondering whether or not the admission committees take into consideration the fact that English is not your first language, when looking at your LSAT score... I mean, are they more understanding given the obvious disadvantage??
I believe I can speak English fairly well, but as I study for the LSAT, I see that there are sometimes phrases or expressions I am not familiar with, especially in RC & LR, and that necessarily affects my timing and/or my ability to understand the passage and get the right answer...

Any idea?

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Ragged
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Re: LSAT and English as a second language

Postby Ragged » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:20 pm

dont think so... being foreign is a soft nothing more

cao0008
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Re: LSAT and English as a second language

Postby cao0008 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:21 pm

I don't know, but I'm praying it does. lol

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DoubleChecks
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Re: LSAT and English as a second language

Postby DoubleChecks » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:22 pm

i would not imagine they would give you much leeway

i mean, it's not like your deficiencies/lack of total familiarity in/with english will disappear after you come to law school and later go on to become a lawyer

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neimanmarxist
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Re: LSAT and English as a second language

Postby neimanmarxist » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:25 pm

English is my second (third) language too. Sadly,I don't think you get any kind of boost for it. Though languages are a good soft, so make sure to mention it!

floppymex
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Re: LSAT and English as a second language

Postby floppymex » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:34 pm

It's not necessarily that you would have any deficiency with English. English is also my second language, and a language that was not primarily spoken in my household. It wasn't common, but every other PT or so, I would encounter a question with an idiom or phrase that "threw me off." A couple of times this led me to seeing either no correct answer or to seeing multiple correct answers, but for the most part I just had to re-read the question. Considering how important every point is on the LSAT, I would be surprised if AdComs completely ignored that an applicant's first language wasn't English.

BenJ
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Re: LSAT and English as a second language

Postby BenJ » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:59 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:i would not imagine they would give you much leeway

i mean, it's not like your deficiencies/lack of total familiarity in/with english will disappear after you come to law school and later go on to become a lawyer


+1

They do not have much pity for ESL students doing poorly on the LSAT. It's a little unfair, but you can see where they're coming from.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: LSAT and English as a second language

Postby DoubleChecks » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:06 pm

floppymex wrote:It's not necessarily that you would have any deficiency with English. English is also my second language, and a language that was not primarily spoken in my household. It wasn't common, but every other PT or so, I would encounter a question with an idiom or phrase that "threw me off." A couple of times this led me to seeing either no correct answer or to seeing multiple correct answers, but for the most part I just had to re-read the question. Considering how important every point is on the LSAT, I would be surprised if AdComs completely ignored that an applicant's first language wasn't English.


lol i still dont see why adcomms would give much leeway to a non-native speaker who scores a tad lower on the LSAT...

1) how would they know they scored lower due to a language reason?
2) why bother? this isnt a problem that will be changing any time soon, and their jobs arent actually to try to make everyone's lives fair and happy lol

now being able to fluently speak another language, that'd be a soft (tho not some amazing TFA or URM soft)

geostuck
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Re: LSAT and English as a second language

Postby geostuck » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:34 pm

I am surprised at the answers...

In Ane Ivey's book, she claimed it to be one of very few acceptable LSAT addendums that they considered. Beyond that, I could not imagine taking the LSAT in another language. I’m fluent in Spanish and Tagalog, and with the time constraints, no way could I do well in those languages. Granted, I sucked at it in English, so I should delete that part…

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DoubleChecks
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Re: LSAT and English as a second language

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:07 am

geostuck wrote:I am surprised at the answers...

In Ane Ivey's book, she claimed it to be one of very few acceptable LSAT addendums that they considered. Beyond that, I could not imagine taking the LSAT in another language. I’m fluent in Spanish and Tagalog, and with the time constraints, no way could I do well in those languages. Granted, I sucked at it in English, so I should delete that part…


wait, are you including international applicants? cuz that's a diff story/pool.

frenchlaw
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Re: LSAT and English as a second language

Postby frenchlaw » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:19 am

DoubleChecks wrote:
geostuck wrote:I am surprised at the answers...

In Ane Ivey's book, she claimed it to be one of very few acceptable LSAT addendums that they considered. Beyond that, I could not imagine taking the LSAT in another language. I’m fluent in Spanish and Tagalog, and with the time constraints, no way could I do well in those languages. Granted, I sucked at it in English, so I should delete that part…


wait, are you including international applicants? cuz that's a diff story/pool.



What do you mean by "that's a different story"... Me for example, I moved in the US about 4 years ago and completed all my education in France... I am now a US resident, so I guess I would not be considered an international student... but do you think that would make any difference?

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kazu
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Re: LSAT and English as a second language

Postby kazu » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:30 am

DoubleChecks wrote:
geostuck wrote:I am surprised at the answers...

In Ane Ivey's book, she claimed it to be one of very few acceptable LSAT addendums that they considered. Beyond that, I could not imagine taking the LSAT in another language. I’m fluent in Spanish and Tagalog, and with the time constraints, no way could I do well in those languages. Granted, I sucked at it in English, so I should delete that part…


wait, are you including international applicants? cuz that's a diff story/pool.

.
Last edited by kazu on Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

geostuck
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Re: LSAT and English as a second language

Postby geostuck » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:50 am

Nope, I'm not talking about international, straight up ESL.

She has a section on writing addendums for LSAT, GPA, shit like that. So, for some unknown reason, I read the section about LSAT scores not representing potential....

Anyhow, like I said, she claims (former addcom) that two reasons they consider an addendum valid is ESL students and history of sucking at standardized testing (with proof)

I'd suggest getting the book ($10). I liked it so much, I bought two. Great info on PS statements, and the app as a whole..

EDT: http://www.annaivey.com/iveyfiles I think there is a page on this site about it.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: LSAT and English as a second language

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:37 am

geostuck wrote:Nope, I'm not talking about international, straight up ESL.

She has a section on writing addendums for LSAT, GPA, shit like that. So, for some unknown reason, I read the section about LSAT scores not representing potential....

Anyhow, like I said, she claims (former addcom) that two reasons they consider an addendum valid is ESL students and history of sucking at standardized testing (with proof)

I'd suggest getting the book ($10). I liked it so much, I bought two. Great info on PS statements, and the app as a whole..

EDT: http://www.annaivey.com/iveyfiles I think there is a page on this site about it.


ive read it lol, in fact i have it prob 10 ft away. it was awhile ago that i read it, but my impression was for ppl slightly diff from the OP's position who just doesnt know idioms and whatnot. i thot of it as international students or maybe newcomers. OP doesnt sound like a current ESLer, but i guess i could be wrong.

Hitler
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Re: LSAT and English as a second language

Postby Hitler » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:51 am

neimanmarxist wrote:English is my second (third) language too. Sadly,I don't think you get any kind of boost for it. Though languages are a good soft, so make sure to mention it!


English is my second language as well. You will not be given any leeway for the LSAT score in a direct kind of way. BUt it will be a very small plus for admissions as a soft.

vtoodler
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Re: LSAT and English as a second language

Postby vtoodler » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:27 pm

What is your native language? From your username, I am guessing French?

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TheLuckyOne
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Re: LSAT and English as a second language

Postby TheLuckyOne » Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:22 pm

vtoodler wrote:What is your native language? From your username, I am guessing French?


LOL, good point.

OP, not to be rude, but it's laughable to complain about language constains since roughtly ~25% of English vocabulary comes directly from French, another good portion from Latin. French also has a fair share of vocabulary from Latin, and I'm sure these groups overlap. Moreover, a lot of English terminology is of French or Latin origin, and these are, for the most part, the words that are the "toughest" on the LSAT.

I'm sorry, but if I were an adcomm, I would laugh if you were trying to justify it.

FWIW, I speak English fairly well and I know some French, so I sort of know what I'm talking about.


BTW, why would they be treated differently when it comes to intl vs ESL students who live and have studied in the US? I'm genuinely curious.


Disclaimer: don't jump on me because you know some Spanish speakers who have language issues or whatever. IMO, if you want to study in an American law school and want to practice law in English, you better not have those issues BEFORE you go for it. Learn the damn language and then compete for a spot in a top school!

Just my $0.02.

vivecan005
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Re: LSAT and English as a second language

Postby vivecan005 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:44 pm

frenchlaw wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
geostuck wrote:I am surprised at the answers...

In Ane Ivey's book, she claimed it to be one of very few acceptable LSAT addendums that they considered. Beyond that, I could not imagine taking the LSAT in another language. I’m fluent in Spanish and Tagalog, and with the time constraints, no way could I do well in those languages. Granted, I sucked at it in English, so I should delete that part…


wait, are you including international applicants? cuz that's a diff story/pool.



What do you mean by "that's a different story"... Me for example, I moved in the US about 4 years ago and completed all my education in France... I am now a US resident, so I guess I would not be considered an international student... but do you think that would make any difference?

What the fuck!!! Nobody destroyed economy for personal gains. These were the very same people who were considered bright and brightest. Joseph Cassano would have been prized if everything would have gone in same direction. When everything went wrong the Mr. cassano was blaimed to create the complexed securitized products; ABS, MBS, Collateralized debt obligations, credit default swaps etc. Andrew Hall definitely deserve to get paycheck 100 million dollar. It is not easy to bring billions of cash in a company. Why to blaim I-banking or Wall Street or LLoyd Blankfien/John Mack/J.Dimon/V.Pandit...so on?

What the fuck Govt was doing in last 10 years to think about wellness of economy or Job creation or anything instead of blaiming that China building Laptops and Mexico building car engine

[Mod note: You were a little too slow in editing your comment.]
Last edited by vivecan005 on Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: LSAT and English as a second language

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:49 pm

The LSAT isn't like most other standardized tests. Its designed to predict future success not to asses how much you know. If you have trouble with English, that isn't going to get easier to overcome when you start reading assloads of legalease that is confusing for native English readers/speakers.

In a perfect world that might not be the case, however, the world is far from fair or perfect.

vtoodler
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Re: LSAT and English as a second language

Postby vtoodler » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:10 pm

Frenchlaw, you should try reading lots of English books.




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