retakes after 170+ ?

SnowyMobs
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retakes after 170+ ?

Postby SnowyMobs » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:20 am

out of curiosity, has anybody here scored over 170 and then retaken the test? how'd it go?

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Cavalier
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby Cavalier » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:22 am

SnowyMobs wrote:out of curiosity, has anybody here scored over 170 and then retaken the test? how'd it go?

I know people here have done. Personally I wouldn't recommend it unless you are consistently getting above a 175 on practice tests, considering there is so much variance in the 170s (1 wrong answer can costs you 2 points, for instance).

vampy
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby vampy » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:00 pm

I got a 170+ and am retaking. I'll let you know how it goes

skip james
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby skip james » Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:58 am

it went well for me. and, to be honest, i hit my average on my first test so i had no logical reason to retake and expect a better score, except that i wanted to do better.

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Thirteen
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby Thirteen » Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:00 am

I'm retaking a 169. I want to be above the median, and hopefully 75% mark, at a few schools, so I need to raise my score by 2-3 points.

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nattybro
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby nattybro » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:45 am

Retook after a 171 and scored 179 which was right around my average

CanadianEH
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby CanadianEH » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:54 am

Retook a 170 and scored 178. Best decision EVER.

starstruck393
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby starstruck393 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:08 am

Be careful what you're retaking, too. For instance, if someone with a 170 (-14) from December 09 retakes, and the curve goes back to normal, that same -14 would be like a 166-167. You'd have to improve a few questions just to get back to 170, and then improve a few more to be able to increase. Not all tests are equal...

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nattybro
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby nattybro » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:23 am

I think a lot of people on this site have a real misunderstanding of how the curve operates. Yes, on a tighter curve you would need to get more questions right, but the questions on that test would be easier so this should happen naturally. A test's curve will never really benefit or hurt you because the test makers are extremely precise in the way they calibrate it.

UTexas
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby UTexas » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:43 am

starstruck393 wrote:Be careful what you're retaking, too. For instance, if someone with a 170 (-14) from December 09 retakes, and the curve goes back to normal, that same -14 would be like a 166-167. You'd have to improve a few questions just to get back to 170, and then improve a few more to be able to increase. Not all tests are equal...


Ignore this post. There's absolutely nothing of value here.

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby Nom Sawyer » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:50 am

nattybro wrote:I think a lot of people on this site have a real misunderstanding of how the curve operates. Yes, on a tighter curve you would need to get more questions right, but the questions on that test would be easier so this should happen naturally. A test's curve will never really benefit or hurt you because the test makers are extremely precise in the way they calibrate it.


I stubbornly refuse to believe this since I missed out on the -14 curve :lol: ..

Anyways, 170+ retaker here.. results were "meh", it wasnt really necessary... (Now if I had gotten that -14)

SnowyMobs
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby SnowyMobs » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:06 pm

thanks for the responses guys.

my gpa is terrible so i need a high LSAT to bail me out. after the the dec. test i figured i'd retake if i scored below 172 and if i scored 174 or higher i'd leave it be. wouldn't you know, i got a 173. i'm 99% sure i'm not going to retake. i do feel like i could improve on that but i don't feel it's worth the time/effort/risk, plus i'm out of PT's. do you guys think law schools care that much if somebody goes from a 173 to say a 174 or 175?

Flanker1067
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby Flanker1067 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:13 pm

SnowyMobs wrote:thanks for the responses guys.

my gpa is terrible so i need a high LSAT to bail me out. after the the dec. test i figured i'd retake if i scored below 172 and if i scored 174 or higher i'd leave it be. wouldn't you know, i got a 173. i'm 99% sure i'm not going to retake. i do feel like i could improve on that but i don't feel it's worth the time/effort/risk, plus i'm out of PT's. do you guys think law schools care that much if somebody goes from a 173 to say a 174 or 175?



I would never answer this with certainty, but I have read that they say don't bother unless you are sure you can do 3+ difference.

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Stanley Otto Swift
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby Stanley Otto Swift » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:56 am

I retook a 174, and am glad I did. I think it depends on where you're testing leading up to the real thing and whether or not your GPA is within the range for the schools you're applying to. For me it was the right decision.

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englawyer
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby englawyer » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:01 am

SnowyMobs wrote:thanks for the responses guys.

my gpa is terrible so i need a high LSAT to bail me out. after the the dec. test i figured i'd retake if i scored below 172 and if i scored 174 or higher i'd leave it be. wouldn't you know, i got a 173. i'm 99% sure i'm not going to retake. i do feel like i could improve on that but i don't feel it's worth the time/effort/risk, plus i'm out of PT's. do you guys think law schools care that much if somebody goes from a 173 to say a 174 or 175?


lol..i had the same thought process. <=172 retake, >=174 happy. got the 173.

although i had a great gpa, I still feel I barely got into H.


if i didn't hit HYS, I was considering a retake in June to see how it went. It would be a "risk free" retake because I would have already put a seat deposit down at one of CCN...if I actually scored a 177+ I would have considered applying next year instead.

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gossipgirl
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby gossipgirl » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:13 am

Had a 171, Wanted to get into Columbia so I retook and got a 175 and GOT IN!

Best decision ever.

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JazzOne
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby JazzOne » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:18 am

I scored a 171. I decided to retake, and my PT average before the retake was 178. I choked on the retake and scored 174. You have to consider two things OP. What are the chances your score won't improve? That could be a disaster if you actually dropped a point or two. Second, what is the benefit of retaking? If you are already above your target school's 75%ile, then you might want to reconsider. There is very little advantage in retaking when you're already above the school's 75%ile because a better score will not help the school's stats. Since the schools report median LSAT scores, any score above median has the same effect on the school's stats as any other score above median. I'm sure they don't actually weigh them equally, but there is a point of diminishing returns.

lawblahblah
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby lawblahblah » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:22 am

172 with a 176 retake. It delayed all my applications, already rejected at Harvard, and nothing from any of the T6. The retake has caused issues for me in the rest of the T20. They all likely assumed I retook for NYU/Columbia, which to be honest I did. I don't know if it will help. I really want Columbia, which was probably not an option with my 172 and GPA. I guess we'll see. Either way it should help with scholarships. At this point I am unsure how I feel about the retake. I put an insane amount of time and effort in and still didn't get the results I was expecting.

However, for me the key is that there was very little risk of a lower score. I am a very consistent test taker. The 172 was a fluke because of nerves. The second time was different, both leading up to and during the test.

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jonas586
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby jonas586 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:09 pm

JazzOne wrote:I scored a 171. I decided to retake, and my PT average before the retake was 178. I choked on the retake and scored 174. You have to consider two things OP. What are the chances your score won't improve? That could be a disaster if you actually dropped a point or two. Second, what is the benefit of retaking? If you are already above your target school's 75%ile, then you might want to reconsider. There is very little advantage in retaking when you're already above the school's 75%ile because a better score will not help the school's stats. Since the schools report median LSAT scores, any score above median has the same effect on the school's stats as any other score above median. I'm sure they don't actually weigh them equally, but there is a point of diminishing returns.

I agree with all of this except for the part that dropping a point or two could be disastrous to the applicant. If your first score already makes a school an unlikely reach, then a lower second score will probably only ensure a rejection that was higly likely anyways. Other than that, it won't really matter at the target school's of your first score (unless perhaps your score was substantially lower). Also, if you really feel like you bombed the test after your retake you can always cancel.

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autarkh
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby autarkh » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:56 pm

I took my last test with swine flu and got a 170. My 12 PT average was 174, with a high of 179 and a low of 171. I'm itching to retake, but it would delay my apps, and mean another year off. If I get rejected from my targets, I'll probably bite the bullet, wait another cycle and retake.

Socratic Method
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby Socratic Method » Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:26 pm

1-2 pt difference means nothing

4910
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby 4910 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:33 pm

looks like i will be retaking my 171 too and wait for next year as i am about to rejected from HLS

Kretzy
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby Kretzy » Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:50 pm

Socratic Method wrote:1-2 pt difference means nothing


If that 1-2 points is the difference between median/above median and not, or 75th/above 75th and not, then it definitely means something.

OP, I'm a 170 who scored far below practice average on test day and eventually decided not to retake. Happy with my decision, but it was a gamble.

Socratic Method
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby Socratic Method » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:00 pm

i was referring to the OP's specific situation, where he's already at 173. at that point 1-2 pts won't make much of a difference.

Kretzy
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Re: retakes after 170+ ?

Postby Kretzy » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:06 pm

Socratic Method wrote:i was referring to the OP's specific situation, where he's already at 173. at that point 1-2 pts won't make much of a difference.


Ah, fair point.




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