After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

am060459
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby am060459 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:44 pm

and getting from a 143 to a 153 is probably about as hard as getting from a 153 to a 160, or a 160 to a 165. i got from a 164 diagnostic to a 170 (PTs at 172 average, 177 highest). you can do it.

i disagree with that statement. i believe its easier to jump from 143 to 153 then it is with 160 to 165.

jaydizzle
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby jaydizzle » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:46 pm

I am looking into the cambridge bundle. --LinkRemoved--


This looks pretty good, but do they give you more than just the answer key? I already have the tests, I would like detailed explanations for each answer though.

am060459
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby am060459 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:28 pm

i do not know. try giving them a call if not i have found out that the kaplan mastery practice does have explanations (the explanantions arent that good).

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kazu
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby kazu » Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:02 pm

From what I know cambridgelsat does not provide explanations, and personally I wouldn't trust published explanations from any of the testprep companies. LSAC published the Official LSAT Superprep which gives detailed explanations for 3 whole tests, which is really useful for getting into the head of the lsat test makers. But other than that I would suggest that you personally go over the questions and, based on what you've learned from the bibles as well as other logical skills that you've picked up while studying, figure out yourself exactly why this answer is wrong and the other one is right. This will be much more helpful for you in the long run than relying on explanations from other testprep companies, which frankly aren't that reliable anyhow.

Cambridgelsat is useful in that they sell you questions divided up by question type, so that you can target and work on specific question types one at a time. Apparently the Kaplan Mastery book does the same for you as well, but it might be difficult for you to obtain the book since they only give it out to students enrolled in their class, and you'll have to buy it second-hand.

edit for additional info...
Last edited by kazu on Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jaydizzle
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby jaydizzle » Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:03 pm

Ah, thanks. I will definitely pickup that superprep book. Frankly, a lot of the questions despite my prepping I have no idea how they got the answer they did.

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TLS1776
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby TLS1776 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:18 pm

Change your study strategy. Consider hiring a high-scoring tutor for a few hours to see them in action and get their feedback. Remember: studying hard isn't enough; you need to study smart.

jaydizzle
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby jaydizzle » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:47 pm

I used Atlas's analysis excel sheet for December 09. Anyone wanna take a look at what it says for me and give me some recommendations? It looks to me like I still need to improve on concepts and eventually timing.


Here's what it says for me:


http://rapidshare.com/files/330487583/A ... racker.xls

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llawguru
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby llawguru » Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:04 am

Sourpunch wrote:I'm only rough because I honestly don't want people to go through the misery I went through when I realized that applying to my dream school, NYU, would be as useful as looking for real women on Match.com.


get get a hooker and lose your virginity already.

jaydizzle
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby jaydizzle » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:37 am

llawguru wrote:
Sourpunch wrote:I'm only rough because I honestly don't want people to go through the misery I went through when I realized that applying to my dream school, NYU, would be as useful as looking for real women on Match.com.


get get a hooker and lose your virginity already.



This would probably give a lot of people on here a +5 PT boost the next day :D

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Helmholtz
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby Helmholtz » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:40 am

lawoftheland wrote:
Sourpunch wrote:I'm only rough because I honestly don't want people to go through the misery I went through when I realized that applying to my dream school, NYU, would be as useful as looking for real women on Match.com.



You generalize too much which invariably means you're probably proven wrong a lot.

Here's one example: I met my dream woman (married for over a year) on Match.com. Exceptions..... they, like, happen.


lol qfp

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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby jaydizzle » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:59 am

I'm contemplating on starting another self-study prep course since where I live only Kaplan is near by. Atlas is supposed to be good, I was thinking about doing their self-study. Maybe I should just review all my blueprint materials once more and follow Pike's method on here. If I have only taken 10 full length PTs, so what you guys have done trumps me. I need to work harder. I went from a 143 diagnostic to 153 so there is improvement still to be made. The only thing that concerns me is even if I do work hard I am worried at hitting a wall at around 158-160 since this is what my past standardized tests score show. Can someone with average intelligence realistically score in the 160s (165+) with enough work? I know you guys preach practice makes perfect, but perhaps I'm just not as smart or capable. I may have no taken as many PTs as most of all of you, but I did spend 4+ months trying to learn the test. I probably utilized ineffective approaches.

aether
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby aether » Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:00 pm

jaydizzle wrote:If I have only taken 10 full length PTs, so what you guys have done trumps me.

The number of PTs isn't the key factor. I only did 12 full-length PTs, but I kept a log of every wrong answer and the reasons why I got it wrong. And of course, that was in addition to taking a prep course and doing many hours of homework to learn their techniques. Counting everything I put approximately 130 hours into test prep.

The more important questions: did you study your PTs after each one? Did you figure out every error, and the reasons why you got it wrong? Did you polish your techniques?

It's actually a good thing that you haven't done every available PT! It means you have new study material for your retest.

Can someone with average intelligence realistically score in the 160s (165+) with enough work? I know you guys preach practice makes perfect, but perhaps I'm just not as smart or capable.

Jay, you're undercutting your own efforts with negative thinking. It's harder to achieve any goal if you talk yourself down and sap your own confidence like this. While I usually try to avoid taking my life philosophy from muppets :mrgreen: I shall make an exception in this case, because Yoda got it right: "Do, or do not. There is no try."

So quit telling yourself that you aren't smart or capable. Quit worrying about whether your goal is possible. Don't think up excuses for failure. Are you going to take the LSAT and totally kill it? Or not?
Last edited by aether on Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jason8821
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby jason8821 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:00 pm

JayDiz, I am sort of in the same boat as you, and although I am only scoring around 157-158 on pt's after 2.5 months of studying, I believe my advice could be helpful.

The number one most important thing on the LSAT, hands down is reading speed and comprehension. This of course is my opinion, but I think others will agree. If you are well above average in this department, you will have a much easier time cracking 170.

I believe it is possible for most anyone to crack 160 and maybe even 165 just off of hard work. You have to max out your reading ability, and learn the test in and out. Anything above that and it will come down to whether or not you have reading skills.

When I first did the games, I sucked on them and had -15, but because I have a greater affinity for math than reading, I was able to quickly bring that up to a -5 or -6, and that was after 1.5-2 weeks of study, I have not touched them since (confident that i can quickly improve) and still score the same on practice. For some I believe the games will take longer to get a grasp on, but I assure you that you can/will with enough practice improve drastically there.

Other than that you have to read everything you can. The harder the better. Hell try reading and grasping peer reviewed documents about why rat shit cures cancer on google scholar. The more you do this the quicker and easier it becomes to comprehend/read quickly on the lsat. The thing is it will probably take 3-4 months to significantly improve reading skill, and it would take a year or more to drastically do so.

Next if you really do have ADD, if you really do then get the medicine.

I was prescribed it at one point in time, I had a logic class. The professor was notoriously hard, I averaged a low B in the class, took an adderall for the first time, THE MORNING before the final ( i had studied alot for this class) and was able to get a 90 and have one of the top grades in the class. Anything that involves logic, reading comp, and math can be greatly aided with ADD meds if you really have it.

However, I saw you mention in another post that you really wanted to work for the government. Be aware that with some jobs they monitor your use of ADD Meds, and I believe in some cases you can be DQ'd from the position even if you were prescribed.

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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby jason8821 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:05 pm

Also, with a 3.91 GPA, I cannot believe that you would top out anywhere below 160-165. There is no way. That is such a hard GPA to attain in any major that you would have to have some pretty solid writing/reasoning skills to begin with. I would easily estimate that less than 10% of people (all of whom are trying hard) can even make a 3.7 GPA

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General Tso
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby General Tso » Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:12 pm

how many practice LSATs did you take? It sounds like you only did 3 or 4 to me. I think an effective LSAT prep regimen requires AT LEAST 15-20 LSATs. Many high scorers take all of the published LSATs (I think there are about 50 now?) I personally did around 20 and that was not enough.

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paratactical
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby paratactical » Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:19 pm

.
Last edited by paratactical on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Helmholtz
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby Helmholtz » Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:21 pm

paratactical wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
lawoftheland wrote:
Sourpunch wrote:I'm only rough because I honestly don't want people to go through the misery I went through when I realized that applying to my dream school, NYU, would be as useful as looking for real women on Match.com.



You generalize too much which invariably means you're probably proven wrong a lot.

Here's one example: I met my dream woman (married for over a year) on Match.com. Exceptions..... they, like, happen.


lol qfp


That means he's gotta be fat, right?


Uh, he felt the need to stand up for Match.com on a law school forum, so I'll go ahead and generalize and say yes.

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Muckduck
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby Muckduck » Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:32 pm

If Kaplan is all you have nearby, then I would say go for it. I raised my score 15 pts with a course. Maybe it was psychological, maybe it was just the additional practice. But having an expert in person who can answer your specific questions is key.

I would wait until next cycle. Aim to take June, break 160 and ED somewhere. It sets you back a year, but it increases your chances of having bearable professors and a few more digits on your paycheck. It's worth the investment.

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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby jaydizzle » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:07 pm

Muckduck wrote:If Kaplan is all you have nearby, then I would say go for it. I raised my score 15 pts with a course. Maybe it was psychological, maybe it was just the additional practice. But having an expert in person who can answer your specific questions is key.

I would wait until next cycle. Aim to take June, break 160 and ED somewhere. It sets you back a year, but it increases your chances of having bearable professors and a few more digits on your paycheck. It's worth the investment.



The good thing is I won't even be set back a year since I am in a 3+3 law program and I am a junior right now. I am opting out of the program and will be just a normal graduate. I did about 10 practice tests. Blueprint was great, but I guess I will try going over all the materials I have once more.

With a 3.9 and a 160 where you guys ED? Some guy keeps telling everyone to do UVA ED if they have a 3.9+ and break 160. UVA is a T14 and something tells me that is very very very optimistic. UVA does have a pretty good relationship with my college and has taken people with some lower test scores and even GPA for grad school and law school from us. Doing what I did I raised up 10 points from the original 143 diagnostic. Man it looks like I have a lot of work. My accuracy sucks as well as timing, and I still don't understand why certain answers are wrong and certain are correct.

Edit: I am going to have to review the PTs like you guys suggested. The problem is sometimes I do not understand why the answer is wrong or incorrect so this doesn't do me much good. I wish more people at my school applied to law school. Most of them are engineers or going off to med school.

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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby aether » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:46 pm

jaydizzle wrote:I am going to have to review the PTs like you guys suggested. The problem is sometimes I do not understand why the answer is wrong or incorrect so this doesn't do me much good.

But that's where all the magic happens, Jay. It's the process of figuring out WHY the answer is wrong that improves your test scores.

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llawguru
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby llawguru » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:58 pm

my problem is that i figure out why the answer is wrong but i cant seem to breakthrough and figure this out while i am taking the test.

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eye
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby eye » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:02 pm

As a fellow 3.9+ gpa'er, I also started in the 140's diagnostic. I also bombed the SAT's and just plain suck at timed standardized tests.

You're in a similar situation I was in a few months ago, but I didn't take any prep course.

Two things that helped me:

1) Go through LGB and LRB (to understand the content)

2) Take 10 untimed PT's before moving into timed ones. This really helped me understand the exam.

Scored 165. Kill it.

jaydizzle
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby jaydizzle » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:04 pm

eye wrote:As a fellow 3.9+ gpa'er, I also started in the 140's diagnostic. I also bombed the SAT's and just plain suck at timed standardized tests.

You're in a similar situation I was in a few months ago, but I didn't take any prep course.

Two things that helped me:

1) Go through LGB and LRB (to understand the content)

2) Take 10 untimed PT's before moving into timed ones. This really helped me understand the exam.

Scored 165. Kill it.


This makes me feel better. :) How many total tests did you go through and how many months have you been at it?

jason8821
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby jason8821 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:05 pm

Have you looked at the Powerscore LR bible? I had someone advise me to look at all of the problems in there and then look at the author's analysis. Once you understand the techniques for each question, you look at your pt answers and figure out how you applied these rules and how by not applying them you missed the answer. This seems to be helping me.

Unless you have an incredible short term memory, or a lot of experience studying logic you need to work on developing a system of attack for each question, and this takes a very long time for most people, in many cases it seems to actually hurt before it helps.

jaydizzle
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Re: After months of prep scored a 153, advice?

Postby jaydizzle » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:53 pm

jason8821 wrote:Have you looked at the Powerscore LR bible? I had someone advise me to look at all of the problems in there and then look at the author's analysis. Once you understand the techniques for each question, you look at your pt answers and figure out how you applied these rules and how by not applying them you missed the answer. This seems to be helping me.

Unless you have an incredible short term memory, or a lot of experience studying logic you need to work on developing a system of attack for each question, and this takes a very long time for most people, in many cases it seems to actually hurt before it helps.


Hmm, I guess I will take a look at these more extensively. When I looked it before it seemed to be quite similar to blueprint. I will try everything again.




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