US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

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Xnegd
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US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

Postby Xnegd » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:39 pm

To practice International Corporate Law, would it be better to go to the US at a ~2nd tier school, or to an internationally highly ranked school (in their respective country) i.e. in Ireland, Japan, or France?

I'm currently getting my International MBA at Trinity College Dublin (Ranked 40th in the world), and will be getting my JD after I finish it to finish out my MBA/JD.

I have pretty bad stats to be competitive for admission. My LSDAS GPA is a 3.53 from UC Berkeley, and my LSAT currently in the mid 150's (but I plan tot take it in June so will be studying hard come January in increase that, but I don't think I'll improve too much).

With those numbers I'm not at all very competitive in the US; however, with my great marks from my current degree, as well as a great background and personal statement (i.e. coma survivor after a childhood fatal accident, was twice an US Student-Representative to a foreign country during a time of war to improve relations, am a Regents scholar, received the Presidential award for academic excellence, have excessive volunteer experience, worked in a law firm for four years, first in family to go to college and not be involved with drugs, etc.) I am a great candidate for a Foreign Law School that doesn't looks at stats as much as US colleges do, but at personal diversity and growth. However US has the best law school in the world, and I want the best education and professional placement possible.

I trying to think what would be best for myself here…

Any advice would be appreciated, thanks!

With those states and my background, what are the best Law Schools in the US I can hope to possibly receive admittance?

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biggamejames
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Re: US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

Postby biggamejames » Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:12 pm

Are there any languages other than English in which you will be able to handle law school work?

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Xnegd
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Re: US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

Postby Xnegd » Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:33 pm

biggamejames wrote:Are there any languages other than English in which you will be able to handle law school work?


It's been 10 years since I spoke Japanese, but I could become fluent again by the time I finished my degree or at least within the year after.

Spanish would also be a viable option. I just got back from Mexico, and I was able tog et around quite adequately, though would need a while before I was at a fluency level.

When in Switzerland, I had to learn a lot of German (swiss not high), and it was pretty easy. I think I could pick it up without too much trouble.

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nealric
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Re: US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

Postby nealric » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:00 pm

If your main goal is to do international corporate work, then going to a T2 is a huge risk. Most T2s will give you a 1/10 chance of breaking into that field at best.

I don't think any of us will be experts in foreign systems. You may need an LLM to practice in the US if you get your law degree abroad.

Lady Heather
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Re: US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

Postby Lady Heather » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:05 pm

nealric wrote:If your main goal is to do international corporate work, then going to a T2 is a huge risk. Most T2s will give you a 1/10 chance of breaking into that field at best.

I don't think any of us will be experts in foreign systems. You may need an LLM to practice in the US if you get your law degree abroad.

For international corporate law, I think it would be better to get a top, non-USA law degree (and then get a top USA LLM) than to go to an average American law school.

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reasonable_man
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Re: US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

Postby reasonable_man » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:26 pm

Why is it that one in five kids on TLS want to practice "international" law? Why is that the cool thing to do?

Lady Heather
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Re: US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

Postby Lady Heather » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:29 pm

reasonable_man wrote:Why is it that one in five kids on TLS want to practice "international" law? Why is that the cool thing to do?

Well, I like international law. But I like international human rights law and public policy. I'm not interested in corporate law.

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reasonable_man
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Re: US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

Postby reasonable_man » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:37 pm

Lady Heather wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:Why is it that one in five kids on TLS want to practice "international" law? Why is that the cool thing to do?

Well, I like international law. But I like international human rights law and public policy. I'm not interested in corporate law.



Are you going to yale? If so, enjoy. If not, prepare to practice something else. Don't go to law school planning on practice international human rights law... its just silly.

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Xnegd
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Re: US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

Postby Xnegd » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:52 pm

reasonable_man wrote:
Lady Heather wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:Why is it that one in five kids on TLS want to practice "international" law? Why is that the cool thing to do?

Well, I like international law. But I like international human rights law and public policy. I'm not interested in corporate law.



Are you going to yale? If so, enjoy. If not, prepare to practice something else. Don't go to law school planning on practice international human rights law... its just silly.


Yes, because caring about human right is lame...?

::sigh::

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reasonable_man
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Re: US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

Postby reasonable_man » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:56 pm

Xnegd wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:
Lady Heather wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:Why is it that one in five kids on TLS want to practice "international" law? Why is that the cool thing to do?

Well, I like international law. But I like international human rights law and public policy. I'm not interested in corporate law.



Are you going to yale? If so, enjoy. If not, prepare to practice something else. Don't go to law school planning on practice international human rights law... its just silly.


Yes, because caring about human right is lame...?

::sigh::



Take a step down from your high horse. Wanting to help people is noble and there is nothing wrong with it. However, breaking into the international human rights practice area is nearly impossible. Its pretty hard to come across the international cross-boarder starving baby panda saver attorney guy jobs that people think are out there. Its VERY hard to find these jobs. Nearly impossible actually. So wanting to help people is fine. Thinking you have a chance to work in international human rights law, however, is silly.

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Matthies
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Re: US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

Postby Matthies » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:02 pm

reasonable_man wrote:Why is it that one in five kids on TLS want to practice "international" law? Why is that the cool thing to do?


They think its like studying aborad and they can travel form hostel to hostel smoking hash with a Danish girl while making 200k Euros. Seriously I think the only thing that is more common than an amercian studying abrooad is a women having a baby.

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Matthies
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Re: US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

Postby Matthies » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:12 pm

reasonable_man wrote:
Take a step down from your high horse. Wanting to help people is noble and there is nothing wrong with it. However, breaking into the international human rights practice area is nearly impossible. Its pretty hard to come across the international cross-boarder starving baby panda saver attorney guy jobs that people think are out there. Its VERY hard to find these jobs. Nearly impossible actually. So wanting to help people is fine. Thinking you have a chance to work in international human rights law, however, is silly.



I’ll say this, I agree with what RM says, he is right on for the vast majority, 99.999999 percent of law students, they will never get jobs in international human rights law. All that being said I do know a grad from my T2 who did it, and got his first job working for the UN doing war crimes trials in Cambodia.

But, he is very uncommon, international law is all he ever wanted to do and he did so much to get there, far more than any normal student would ever do. Most would give up long before they did 1/10 of what this guy did to land his dream job. So for most people its likely a dream unless you go to Yale and it takes you no effort to get the job. What it will take to do it from a T2 school most law students just don’t posses that kind of dedication and passion for it.

Some can make it happen, but that ALL the individual and nothing about the school, most won’t put forth that kind of time, effort, $ and sticking their necks out to do it. It’s the not the kind of job you get by just putting your name on a OCI list and doing a 15 min screening interview in your schools study rooms.

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Xnegd
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Re: US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

Postby Xnegd » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:10 pm

Thanks for everyone's help, and kudos for your friend who got his dream job!

I don't suppose anyone can answer my last question, about considering my stats and my background, what are the best schools I would be a competitive candidate for if I decided to stay in the US.

California (or in a large international city) is where I preferably want to study and find a job after, seeing as I'm a resident there, and it's where all my contacts are to try and find a job after graduation.

Oh, and to answer the question about why International Law is so appealing. Personally, it's because I've already lived abroad in several countries, and I feel very comfortable in foreign circumstances and am quick to learn new languages. Seeing as I currently work for an international firm, and have to contact several attorneys in Tokyo, Hong Kong, London, etc on a daily bases to deal with contracts, I might as well follow a field I already have quite a bit of experience in, and know I'll actually enjoy practicing opposed to being miserable like the 75% of every other lawyer I know.

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reasonable_man
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Re: US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

Postby reasonable_man » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:15 pm

Xnegd wrote:Thanks for everyone's help, and kudos for your friend who got his dream job!

I don't suppose anyone can answer my last question, about considering my stats and my background, what are the best schools I would be a competitive candidate for if I decided to stay in the US.

California (or in a large international city) is where I preferably want to study and find a job after, seeing as I'm a resident there, and it's where all my contacts are to try and find a job after graduation.

Oh, and to answer the question about why International Law is so appealing. Personally, it's because I've already lived abroad in several countries, and I feel very comfortable in foreign circumstances and am quick to learn new languages. Seeing as I currently work for an international firm, and have to contact several attorneys in Tokyo, Hong Kong, London, etc on a daily bases to deal with contracts, I might as well follow a field I already have quite a bit of experience in, and know I'll actually enjoy practicing opposed to being miserable like the 75% of every other lawyer I know.


I practice boring regular non-international law here in the boring United States. Thus, I have no idea what would look better. The legions of international lawyers you work with are the best people to talk to. However, with your LSAT ranging in the 150's, you're not getting into any powerhouse schools here anyway.. So if a non-US law degree will allow you to practice wherever you wantt o practice then go for it. However, if you want to come back to the US, i'd really look for an American JD.

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TheLuckyOne
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Re: US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

Postby TheLuckyOne » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:26 pm

Why so much talk about "unless it's Yale"??? Y is nothing comparing to Harvard which is the king when it comes to international law. I think some people are just too rank-blind to see that... and yes, I'm a Harvard troll :lol:

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Xnegd
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Re: US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

Postby Xnegd » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:34 pm

reasonable_man wrote:
Xnegd wrote:Thanks for everyone's help, and kudos for your friend who got his dream job!

I don't suppose anyone can answer my last question, about considering my stats and my background, what are the best schools I would be a competitive candidate for if I decided to stay in the US.

California (or in a large international city) is where I preferably want to study and find a job after, seeing as I'm a resident there, and it's where all my contacts are to try and find a job after graduation.

Oh, and to answer the question about why International Law is so appealing. Personally, it's because I've already lived abroad in several countries, and I feel very comfortable in foreign circumstances and am quick to learn new languages. Seeing as I currently work for an international firm, and have to contact several attorneys in Tokyo, Hong Kong, London, etc on a daily bases to deal with contracts, I might as well follow a field I already have quite a bit of experience in, and know I'll actually enjoy practicing opposed to being miserable like the 75% of every other lawyer I know.


I practice boring regular non-international law here in the boring United States. Thus, I have no idea what would look better. The legions of international lawyers you work with are the best people to talk to. However, with your LSAT ranging in the 150's, you're not getting into any powerhouse schools here anyway.. So if a non-US law degree will allow you to practice wherever you wantt o practice then go for it. However, if you want to come back to the US, i'd really look for an American JD.


Most of the ones I work for went to Stanford, Boalt, U Tokyo, Tohoku University, etc. All over the globe. Everyone has a different opinion, hence why I was looking for info outside of the firm to get some reference.

Plus they all took the LSAT 20-30 years ago, and don't quite get how important stats are today. Law School is a differant game then it was five+ years ago.

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reasonable_man
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Re: US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

Postby reasonable_man » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:36 pm

Xnegd wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:
Xnegd wrote:Thanks for everyone's help, and kudos for your friend who got his dream job!

I don't suppose anyone can answer my last question, about considering my stats and my background, what are the best schools I would be a competitive candidate for if I decided to stay in the US.

California (or in a large international city) is where I preferably want to study and find a job after, seeing as I'm a resident there, and it's where all my contacts are to try and find a job after graduation.

Oh, and to answer the question about why International Law is so appealing. Personally, it's because I've already lived abroad in several countries, and I feel very comfortable in foreign circumstances and am quick to learn new languages. Seeing as I currently work for an international firm, and have to contact several attorneys in Tokyo, Hong Kong, London, etc on a daily bases to deal with contracts, I might as well follow a field I already have quite a bit of experience in, and know I'll actually enjoy practicing opposed to being miserable like the 75% of every other lawyer I know.


I practice boring regular non-international law here in the boring United States. Thus, I have no idea what would look better. The legions of international lawyers you work with are the best people to talk to. However, with your LSAT ranging in the 150's, you're not getting into any powerhouse schools here anyway.. So if a non-US law degree will allow you to practice wherever you wantt o practice then go for it. However, if you want to come back to the US, i'd really look for an American JD.


Most of the ones I work for went to Stanford, Boalt, U Tokyo, Tohoku University, etc. All over the globe. Everyone has a different opinion, hence why I was looking for info outside of the firm to get some reference.

Plus they all took the LSAT 20-30 years ago, and don't quite get how important stats are today. Law School is a differant game then it was five+ years ago.


Its a different ballgame today from the days before the US News ruined the fucking profession. There was a time, long ago, where law schools could make decisions based on something other than UGPA and LSAT. But oh well.

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nealric
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Re: US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

Postby nealric » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:41 pm


Its a different ballgame today from the days before the US News ruined the fucking profession. There was a time, long ago, where law schools could make decisions based on something other than UGPA and LSAT. But oh well.


Top schools were still really hard to get into even before US news started ranking. The LSAT first started in 1948- so it's not like people weren't eliminated based on it a long, long time ago.

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MF248
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Re: US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

Postby MF248 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:48 pm

Xnegd wrote:Thanks for everyone's help, and kudos for your friend who got his dream job!

I don't suppose anyone can answer my last question, about considering my stats and my background, what are the best schools I would be a competitive candidate for if I decided to stay in the US.

California (or in a large international city) is where I preferably want to study and find a job after, seeing as I'm a resident there, and it's where all my contacts are to try and find a job after graduation.

Oh, and to answer the question about why International Law is so appealing. Personally, it's because I've already lived abroad in several countries, and I feel very comfortable in foreign circumstances and am quick to learn new languages. Seeing as I currently work for an international firm, and have to contact several attorneys in Tokyo, Hong Kong, London, etc on a daily bases to deal with contracts, I might as well follow a field I already have quite a bit of experience in, and know I'll actually enjoy practicing opposed to being miserable like the 75% of every other lawyer I know.



Study the LSAT more, then start looking when you have a better picture of what your number will look like. Maybe you'll get high 160's and get into Cornell or something.

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Re: US Law Schools vs International Law Schools

Postby SDBB » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:09 am

Although this is quite an old thread, I'll go ahead and add on a bit. My numbers weren't too great either, so I decided to go to Asia for grad school. I studied for my Master of Public Administration at Tsinghua University in China, and am currently waiting for my applications to JD programs at The Chinese University of Hong Kong and The University of Hong Kong to be reviewed. While not necessarily set on practicing international law, I have a committed interest to the greater East Asian region, and believe that by establishing links with educational powerhouses in the area I will have a competitive advantage over "average" T1 graduates (perhaps T14 excluded of course). Who knows though...




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